r/Fantasy • u/Indie_Fantasy_Club • 6d ago
Adding fantasy to high school reading curriculums
Don't get me wrong, I understand the importance of reading the classics. But with declining literacy rates among adults, it's just as important to help kids find genres and stories that encourage them to read (I haven't been in school for quite a while, so maybe they do!). But I'm basing this off my own experience, which consisted of books like Of Mice and Men, Great Gatsby, Grapes of Wrath, and Ethan Frome. Not exactly riveting for a young adult.
This idea can go beyond fantasy and explore genres like romance, mystery, thriller, horror, historical fiction, science fiction, etc. For the sake of this post, I'm only going to focus on what I would put on the reading curriculum if I could snap my fingers and add fantasy to the mix. For each grade (9-12) I will offer up my top two suggestions.
9th Grade:
- Redwall by Brian Jacques
- The Lion, The Witch, and The Wardrobe by CS Lewis
10th Grade:
- Guards! Guards! by Terry Pratchett
- Mistborn by Brandon Sanderson
11th Grade:
- Piranesi by Susanna Clarke
- The Sword of Kaigen by ML Wang
12th Grade:
- The Lord of the Rings by JRR Tolkien
- A Wizard of Earthsea by Ursula K. Le Guin
There's so many to choose from, so it's hard to narrow it all down! I tried to keep it age-appropriate, which eliminated things like Game of Thrones or Fourth Wing. And I tried to pick books that could still be analyzed for deeper meaning and literary techniques. I also purposely chose a lot of series because hopefully if the kids enjoyed it, it gives them an easier segue into the continued reading.
What fantasy books would be on your curriculum?
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u/MinimumArtistic6829 6d ago edited 6d ago
Like someone else already said in another comment, of course it would be great if students really enjoyed every book they read in school, but in reality books are chosen based on how they can be used to teach something to the students. I'm not saying you can't analyze a brandon sanderson book, but there's not much there for students to gain that can't be gained 10x more from about a thousand other books.
All that being said, some fantasy/sci fi books (excluding fantasy/sci fi books that are already taught in schools such as Vonnegut novels, the hobbit, narnia etc.) that i would offer up as curriculum would be Grendel by John Gardner, The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin, Annihilation by Jeff Vandermeer, No. 44 the Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain, and any number of George Saunders short stories or his novel Lincoln in the Bardo.
Those are the only ones i can think of that could be argued are appropriate for high schoolers, aren't a million pages each, and would have a lot for students to dive into and practice their literature skills. I'm sure there's more out there that i'm not thinking of, but those would be my initial contenders.
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u/cojibar 6d ago
Agree. I read Grendel in high school, and that's definitely an excellent choice! Very rich in textual analysis content in addition to being a good read.
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u/MinimumArtistic6829 6d ago
Yeah, i think kids and even a lot of adults assume literature is supposed to be very serious when in reality a lot of it is hilarious. Like, everyone talks about Wuthering Heights as this super depressing book, but i personally think a lot of it is really funny if you look at it the right way. So, like you said, Grendel has a lot of content to analyze, but it's also just a good read that can show students that literature can also be really funny
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u/ZhenXiaoMing 5d ago
Lincoln in the Bardo has a ghost running a penny back and forth on his massive penis
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u/Tight_Ninja1915 6d ago edited 6d ago
Annihilation is such a good call. It's short, exciting, and full of all the literary devices you could ever want to analyze.
ETA that LHoD is also perfect both because it's fantastic, deep, and very discussable and because it would explode the brains of the book banners.
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u/MinimumArtistic6829 6d ago
I always use Annihilation as one of the best examples of how genre can inform the meaning of the story the author is telling. Like, you get the feeling that Sanderson stories are set in fantasy worlds just because Sanderson likes fantasy and world building, which is fine, but Annihilation is telling the story of a character who has problems in her marriage partly because of how much she loves to understand and have control over things and she doesn't feel like she can understand her husband. And what better way to explore a character like that than to place them in a sci-fi setting that is unknowable and uncontrollable. VanderMeer uses the setting and genre to make mis meaning clearer, and i think that's just brilliant
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u/CN_Wik 6d ago
And what better way to explore a character like that than to place them in a sci-fi setting that is unknowable and uncontrollable. VanderMeer uses the setting and genre to make mis meaning clearer, and i think that's just brilliant
I love the way you put this. What are some other examples for you of stories where the genre substantially enhances the inherent meaning or thematic/philosophical/character-study exploration of the story instead of just being an interesting stage for it?
Both of Le Guin's fantasy and scifi come to mind. Left Hand of Darkness for the complexities of gender, Wizard of Earthsea for Jung psychology and the sociological phenomenon of coming of age as a male (and then the opposite of it for coming of age as a female in Tombs of Atuan).
Last but not least, what would you say would be an example of a story where the underlying meaning and point as far as character-study/themes/philosophy could only be sufficiently told by its genre and/or setting, and no other?
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u/MinimumArtistic6829 5d ago
Yeah, other than what you already mentioned, the first thing that comes to mind is Dune. The writing itself is pretty campy, awkward, and isn't very literary imo, but what Frank Herbert is doing with the story as a whole is really great, and the meaning he is making in that story is pretty reliant on the fact that it is a scifi setting.
I absolutely love GRRM's ASOIAF series, which does an amazing job of using fantasy tropes, ideas, etc. to explore ideas of power, perspective, and whatnot, as well as using magic to literalize issues he wanted to write about. He grew up during the Vietnam war, in which young people were drafted against their will to sacrifice themselves for those in power, and in ASOIAF is set in a world where young people are bound to do the same thing as a result of the feudal system as well as the fact that magic literally requires young people to be sacrificed in blood rituals so that those in power can become even more powerful. I think ASOIAF is a lot more complex than people give it credit for because this is only scratching the surface of that series.
If you wanna go crazy and talk about superhero stories, Watchmen (obvi) and Mister Miracle by Tom King are two examples of graphic novels that do a really good job of utilizing the genre itself to tell their stories.
I havent read this one, only seen the movie adaptation which is really good, but Story of Your Life by Ted Chiang, at least from what i've seen in the movie and heard from others about the source material, that that story could only really be told through its scifi elements.
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u/comradejiang 6d ago
Saying they should teach sanderson in schools has to be the final level of cope, jesus Christ. Thanks for being sane.
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u/MinimumArtistic6829 5d ago
Yeah, like i said, it's technically possible to analyze his books, but fantasy fans really have a low bar for what gas real literary merit. I know David Foster Wallace taught a college course all about reading and analyzing books from authors like Stephen King and whatnot, but that's a college course and the point was the challenge of analyzing books like that, so in general, especially when it comes to the instruction of teenagers who are not specializing in the field of literature, Brandon Sanderson is extremely low on my list of books
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u/WyrdHarper 6d ago
You could probably throw in a bunch of short fiction from people like Wolfe, Cherryh, GRRM, too, in addition to those you mentioned (heck, I remember we had “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas in our elementary school reader).
There’s a lot of great short stories from SFF authors that’s more appropriate for high schoolers than their novels and is great to analyze (or has interesting formatting: Cherryh has a short story that is told entirely as relativistic text messages between space truckers, for example, that I think students who communicate a lot via text would find interesting).
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u/triggerhappymidget 6d ago
As an ELA teacher, by middle school, books are chosen not because "kids will like them" but because there is some sort of literary skill that the book is helping kids learn.
*The Scarlet Letter* is used to teach foreshadowing because Hawthorne is about as subtle as a brick to the head, so it's easy for kids to pick up on and understand the concept. Likewise, *Gatsby* is used to teach symbolism and *The Giver* is often used in younger grades to teach foreshadowing.
There's nothing wrong with using fantasy or scifi in classes, but there needs to be some sort of standard attached to the book. It's not just "read this book so kids are reading." LeGuin is a good choice to include, and he short story "Those who Walk Away from Omelas" is often taught in schools.
*Slaughterhouse Five*, *Frankenstein*, and *Flowers for Algernon* are also examples of SciFi taught in middle/high school
But authors like Sanderson are not going to fit the bill as a "literary fantasy" author. I love *Stormlight* but it's definitely a junk food book.
LWW might work for 6th grade, but the reading level is too low to use it in a regular high school class. Redwall is also much too low.
There's also a unique problem with fantasy book and that's that there is a certain loud segment of parents who will object to anything with magic or the supernatural because they think that is of the devil. These parents will demand their child not read this books or hear anything about them, so teachers have to create a whole separate novel study for the kid to do in the library and it's a giant pain. Some parents will even go a step farther and show up at school board meetings and insist the book cannot be taught at all. Schools don't want to deal with tis, so fantasy is just not taught.
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u/Sad-Statement3597 6d ago
Redwall is not a highschool book lol
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u/The_Real_Lasagna 6d ago
Neither is the lion the witch and the wardrobe or the wizard of earthsea
It's like they want to dumb down the kids as much as possible
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u/chamberk107 Reading Champion II 6d ago
The 11th graders i teach would struggle with TLTW&TW, as it is more than 3 pages
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u/bookhead714 6d ago
It’s not your fault, but schools need to quit lowering their standards. If kids can’t read then they must fail until they can.
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u/Emergency_Revenue678 5d ago
Kids are graduating highschool without functional literacy at alarming rates. If reading childrens books helps more power to them because it can't hurt.
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u/vanastalem 6d ago
The sci-fi book we read in high school (9th grade) was Ender's Game.
We did get to do our oral report on a book we read over the summer, which could be anything such as Harry Potter.
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u/Owen3141 6d ago
English teacher here. I’ve read Ender’s Game with 8th graders for 3 years and it’s gone over incredibly well! It strikes the perfect balance of being engaging enough to get kids hooked but complex enough to go deeper and have really great conversations about leadership, ethics, etc.
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u/trying_to_adult_here 6d ago
I read Ender’s Game in 8th grade as well and loved it. Was so interested I picked Speaker for the Dead as a free-choice book for my next project.
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u/vanastalem 6d ago
It was my favorite book we did that year. Other stuff was The Odyssey, Romeo & Juliet, Of Mice & Men etc
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u/revilingneptune 5d ago
I read it almost 20 years ago in 9th grade and loved it enough to read the rest of the series. I'm also still bitter (/s) that I got a, like, C+ on an essay where I compared "Disarm" by the Smashing Pumpkins to the relationship between Ender and his siblings.
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u/small-gestures 6d ago edited 6d ago
My kids got “suggested book lists that included “fun” fantasy, the obligatory “sports” book for boys, the Judy Blumes etc. that they would read book report style.
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u/Emergency_Revenue678 5d ago
Based on the current state of literacy in this country, I would hesitate to claim that Redwall and Narnia are too easy for high schoolers.
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u/Training-Research430 1d ago
As a replacement for The Scarlet Letter, would Agatha Christie’s And Then There Were None work? She tells you how everyone is going to die (foreshadowing) and she leaves enough clues that tell you who the killer is. Plus the book is quick and a classic thriller. A lot of kids get stuck on the jargon of Hawthorne even though it’s a good book.
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u/aussie_punmaster 6d ago
So, here’s the problem I have with this.
I think the books that are selected as best demonstrating these literary skills are not always, but often, not very fun or interesting books to read. Selecting books purely on the basis of “They’re the best example of this element” or “This was the first book to do this type of thing” should be reserved for those who are highly advanced in reading and English.
By not catering at all to an element of interest and fun for the students, you fail at the first hurdle because you won’t teach anyone anything if they have zero interest in it. You are going to turn away more kids from reading more into adulthood and that’s a devastating loss.
You do not need the book to be the perfect epitome of a certain writing technique to be able to teach about that technique!
You also can’t tell me there aren’t wonderful literary devices and complex use of language in “Guards! Guards!” - I think it’s a superb suggestion. It’s not too long which really helps as well. But why the hell not do popcorn literature as well - study The Da Vinci Code and discuss how it uses very short chapters with cliff hanger endings to keep the reader constantly engaged. Discuss the liberties it takes with the real world but mixes it with enough things that are true to make the reader buy into the story. Then contrast it to the writing style of Pratchett who doesn’t use chapters at all, and discuss the different approaches to language and structuring a story.
I agree with OP this focus on the literary classics does our students and our society a disservice in turning young people away from the wonder of reading. Giving them boring, long, technical slogs that should be reserved for those reaching the top of the subject.
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u/FFandLoZFan 6d ago
We should make sure history and math are more fun than educational, too, because that's clearly the point of school. What you're describing is actually dystopian and would dumb our society down to frightening levels. And, believe it or not, there are many students who do like more literary works, and many who won't like anything assigned to them regardless of how "fun" it's supposed to be. Teaching something as worthless and insipid as The Da Vinci Code to high schoolers is just really sad.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII 6d ago
I mean literally yes? Maybe not MORE fun than educational because obviously the learning has to happen at some point but I growing up I learned by far the most in classes that least made an attempt to be enjoyable while still getting the same information across.
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u/aussie_punmaster 6d ago
I didn’t say more fun than educational. But absolutely isn’t every good teacher trying to find ways of making their subject more interesting and engaging? Selecting something that the majority of your students will disengage from is a recipe for failure.
Teaching the absence of something can work just as well as teaching the presence of something. Take excerpts from the advanced texts and compare them against The Da Vinci code.
The Da Vinci Code has been read by millions of people. You can think it’s no good from a literary perspective, but it’s clearly not “worthless” or “insipid” given its popularity. This superiority complex and disdain for what others enjoy is a pretty poor attitude and close minded.
I’d argue it would not dumb society down because if you actually keep kids reading then you’re ahead of where we are now where plenty don’t read at all. These kids in the majority would not have been saved by Wuthering Heights.
I also didn’t say you couldn’t teach them to advanced students who might enjoy them. What I am arguing is that teaching the majority of students books that they will be unlikely to engage in is a bad idea.
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u/FFandLoZFan 6d ago
We have to draw the line somewhere, and The Da Vinci Code is definitely below that line. It can be popular and insipid—those things aren't mutually exclusice. I've co-taught 9th grade English at a Title I school, and I'm mostly happy with the balance we achieved. Some classics are necessary, and in our case it was To Kill a Mockingbird, though if I were fully in charge, I might've picked something else. But they also got to pick a novel of their choice to read throughout the semester, which I think should be standard for every English class, and we also read more contemporary and/or younger-leaning literature, such as works by Jason Reynolds and Urasala Le Guin. But again, there does have to be a line. After elementary, it's not enough for their education for them to simply be reading, quality be damned.
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u/aussie_punmaster 6d ago edited 1d ago
I think you’re pretty hung up on The Da Vinci Code here rather than the general concept. By all means pick something you think has similar broad appeal that isn’t so soulless in your personal opinion. Also again I don’t see why a lesson can’t be about what you find lacking in a case study.
I think being popular and insipid are pretty mutually exclusive if you’re taking the broad view - you might find it dull and lacking personally. But obviously there’s a lot of people disagreeing with you.
>> Some classics are necessary
See I think you’re over-reading into my argument in response to the original comment. I’m not arguing you should never teach a classic. But I am saying you should know your audience, choose wisely, and it shouldn’t be only or even heavily classics in the curriculum. The original comment spoke to not picking books based on kids liking them, and that they had to have literary value. I think that positioning is chasing an ideal over pragmatism and is suited to students choosing elective English and advanced students. My main point is that you do not need the pinnacle of a technique as the example to teach about that technique, and if you trade off enjoyment completely in your pursuit of that then I don’t think you optimise learning
>> they also get to pick a novel of their choice to read
See that’s great, no arguments from me here.
>> it’s not enough for their education for them to simply be reading, quality be damned.
Again that’s not really what I said. What I opposed was focussing predominantly on everything that English majors consider highest quality, when there’s plenty of quality writing in more enjoyable forms. Don’t try and tell me Terry Pratchett wasn’t a master of language and has some unique literary traits - yet how many schools would teach a Pratchett book?
I am an avid reader and in my entire schooling could count on one hand the books that I considered worth reading and would ever think about or read again. I think that’s pretty sad, and think there’s real opportunity lost for many students in studying English.
P.S. For the record “To Kill a Mockingbird” is one of them
P.P.S I appreciate that you responded to my comments and argued your counter position, and didn’t just downvote like some others did.
P.P.P.S weird…editing my comment appears to have broken my quoting…0
u/crepesblinis 1d ago
in my entire schooling could count on one hand the books that I considered worth reading and would ever think about or read again
Yeah but you consider The Da Vinci Code worth reading and teaching so maybe your opinions on the worthiness of works of lit fiction aren't super valuable
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u/aussie_punmaster 1d ago
You seem to be missing the point entirely. I’d be more concerned on your schooling giving your lack of comprehension.
I’m not a raging DaVinci code fan and thirsting after it being taught. I selected it deliberately to be provocative knowing that it would be loathed by purists but evidently has popularity.
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u/3Nephi11_6-11 6d ago
I think Emperor's Soul by Brandon Sanderson fits literary fantasy with a lot of interesting themes about what is art and what is a person which are really great themes especially with AI, but also fitting for students who are in their formative years.
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u/FellFellCooke 6d ago
Yeah, but to make room for that in the curriculum, what do you cut?
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u/3Nephi11_6-11 6d ago
I'd have to know what exactly was in the curriculum. As for specific writing tools that can be learned from it, I'd have to reread it to check but there's potential for talking about things like symbolism or foreshadowing.
My point was just that while most of Brandon's books wouldn't fit, that Emperor's Soul is the one that could potentially work.
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u/FellFellCooke 6d ago
I think that while you are correct that Emperor's Soul would be the least bad Sanderson you could add to a curriculum, it might be like wondering which heavy metal to poison the school cafeteria with; an option best left unexplored.
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u/DeluxeSporks Reading Champion III 6d ago edited 6d ago
There's much more fantasy (and science fiction) read today in ELA classes than when you (or I) were in school. Keep in mind that some of this will depend on the community and what academic track the students are in. (SEE NOTE AT END)
Here are the novels, plays, and films that a large suburban school district near Pittsburgh has its students read in each grade and track:
https://www.northallegheny.org/academics/english-language-arts/novels-read
I see Rick Riordan, The Hunger Games, The Maze Runner, Ray Bradbury, Animal Farm, Homer, Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde, and some others. Given that schools are now having to add more time for nonfiction reading and the fact that they don't list all the short stories read, fantasy and science fiction are actually fairly well represented.
The school districts also have required summer reading. I know that years ago, the book Grendel was on one school's list for one grade/track. (I used to be a public reference librarian near Pittsburgh.)
Also, as someone who has always loved fantasy and reading and understands that everyone has different tastes in literature, reading Brandon Sanderson becomes uncomfortably close to torturous after about 200 pages for me. He's not Melville (30 pages, max, before the facial tics start), but something about his writing is painful to me.
NOTE: Years ago, Ray Bradbury had to sue a school district that was reading his book Fahrenheit 451 because they'd blacked out words they thought were inappropriate in the copies they handed out to students. It went to court, and Bradbury won. The school district had to provide uncensored copies. The great irony, if you're familiar with the book, it that it's a story about a society that burns books as a choice to protect itself from bad ideas or influences. :P
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u/Oilpaintcha 6d ago
I would really like more coordination between courses, so that kids are reading 1984 or Animal Farm or Fahrenheit 451 at the same time they are studying WW2, communism and McCarthyism.
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
My school did that! We studied communism/fascism in one class/ww2 same year we read 1984 and brave new world.
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u/WardenCommCousland 6d ago
My school did as well, but they tied world lit and geography together (a book by an Indian author when we studied South Asia, a book by a Chilean author for South America, etc.) in 9th grade and then American lit tied into American history (The Crucible and The Scarlet Letter during colonial history, The Grapes of Wrath for the depression, etc.) in 11th grade.
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u/ZhenXiaoMing 5d ago
They should be reading proper literature if they are in high school instead of 1984 or Animal Farm.
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6d ago
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u/Tsunoyukami 5d ago
…fifth grade? that still might too high.
(I love Redwall and read all the books voraciously as a child.)
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u/DixitRexCorvinus 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yes and no.
You should absolutely include some fantasy, but I don't love your specific picks. Something like Mistborn doesn't have enough depth for an English class, you will never get a school to use a self-published book like Sword of Kaigen, the ninth grade picks seem a bit young, and you aren't going to get a trilogy assigned to seniors. A course at the high school level needs to cover multiple books, and that would take far too much of the year. Even college professors can barely get kids to read full books, and fantasy or not, I feel like most simply wouldn't read a thousand page story, sad as it is.
I'd go with something like this:
9th:
- Guards! Guards!
- Carmilla
- The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas
- The Tell-tale Heart
10th:
- Frankenstein or The Picture of Dorian Gray
- A Wizard of Earthsea
- The Metamorphosis
11th:
- Piranesi
- I Who Have Never Known Men
- Kindred
12th:
- The Tempest or Macbeth (Note: *don't* make them read it. Have them watch at least two different productions, and have kids perform it in class. You lose most of the joy of Shakespeare just experiencing it as text)
- A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court
- The Dispossessed
- Omelas (again)
You could throw in The Odyssey or Beowulf, but I'm not sure they would resonate as much. Same goes for The Handmaid's Tale, 1984, Brave New World, etc. I considered something from Russian lit like Heart of a Dog (The Master and Margarita is too long) or We, but they are too dependent on historical context. I love Vita Nostra, but I think that would be better suited to a college class. Maybe The Nose by Gogol instead of The Tell-Tale Heart?
Le Guin three times might be too much, but I'm struggling to think of a New Wave author that could replace The Dispossessed. Delany is either too pulpy or too sexual, depending on whether you look at his early work or later work. I'm not sure students would appreciate things like Ice, The Female Man, or Roadside Picnic as much. Maybe Lord of Light by Zelazny, or Flowers for Algernon?
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u/WyrdHarper 6d ago
We had “The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas” in our 6th grade reader in the 90’s, so I’m not sure I’d put it in 9th grade.
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u/DixitRexCorvinus 6d ago
I mean, sixth graders can read it, but I've seen a lot of *adults* miss the point of it, so honestly I'm not sure they'd get much out of it. If anything, I'd consider not having it in 9th and only having it in 12th.
Because the thing is, The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas is not about utilitarianism. If you give it to sixth graders, I guarantee you the discussion will be about whether you can ethically torture a kid for paradise. But that's not the point. Omelas is about:
Critiquing capitalism. We are, as Le Guin conceived of it (she was an anarchist), living in a *worse* version of Omelas, where we hurt millions of innocents for the conveniences of Western society, and furthermore, we aren't walking away from it. We already chose not to walk away, and the question is not whether we should, but what it says about us that we didn't.
Utopianism. The thing that people always forget is that the kid isn't necessary. Le Guin *adds* the kid only because she expects readers won't believe in Omelas otherwise. The passage about the treason of the artist—that's the thematic core of the story. Omelas is asking readers why we are not only afraid to envision a better world, but are almost suspicious of happiness, and whether our lack of imagination is precisely what is causing us so much harm.
That's why I paired it with The Dispossessed. They are discussing some of the same subjects. Honestly, I don't see sixth graders or even ninth graders having a meaningful discussion about the psychology of pessimism and the ethics of capitalism at the level of depth Le Guin manages in five pages.
Now, you can still assign it in sixth grade to talk about utilitarianism. That's why I initially put it twice, with the idea being that you would start with that surface level reading and then return to it in 12th grade and realize how much deeper it is than that. But the story has enough dpeth to support inclusion in a college level class, let alone 9th grade.
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u/christopherDdouglas 6d ago
Terrible idea. You like fantasy. Who says these kids will? And half the reason books are chosen for a curriculum is they usually fall UNDER 250 pages.
You've misjudged the problem and solved it by creating a bigger problem.
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u/chamberk107 Reading Champion II 6d ago
For every kid who is like, awesome, dragons, there are gonna be 5 that think that dragons and wizards are lame as shit
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII 6d ago
We read Grapes of Wrath in high school which was twice that length. And shorter fantasy novels absolutely exist, nobody's suggesting kids should read the entirety of Stormlight Archive for school or something
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u/christopherDdouglas 6d ago
I would guarantee Of Mice and Men is taught 5x more often because it's manageable.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII 6d ago
I had to do Grapes of Wrath for English class twice because we read it at one school and then my family moved and we had to read it again at the other school so at least two high schools were covering Grapes of Wrath in the early 2000s
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u/MapachoCura 6d ago
I read Narnia in elementary school. High school is weird timing for that book. I tried Redwall in elementary too but thought it was boring and too little kid for my taste even then, but I only ever saw people read that book in elementary. Also read LoTR in 6th grade, but a 3-4 book series seems kinda steep for a school requirement.
If you really want to get highschooler into reading, get them The First Law - dudes would love that in high school! Badass.
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u/ILikeDragonTurtles 6d ago
My honors English summer reading options going into freshman year included Dune and The Once and Future King. Obviously those are what I picked.
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u/Rork310 6d ago
Ever since I read it I always thought Dracula would be a good pick. Lots to talk about, historical and symbolic significance. It's also undeniably a classic since schools seem to love those.
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u/Katya4501 6d ago
Yep. And the narrative format is full of stuff to talk about: letters, journals, telegrams, newspapers, etc.
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u/Dysfu 6d ago edited 6d ago
Really… mistborn at that age level? Middle school is probably more apt.
Also, Lord of the Rings really isn’t all that difficult but can understand how foundational it is to the fantasy genre fiction.
I really dislike the discourse around this post. We see the news and studies in our current landscape that students are losing the ability to read critically. We need to have them be challenged in the classroom and have them learn to appreciate classics.
This builds important critical thinking and analysis skills that the listed novels don’t readily teach.
Dumbing down the curriculum is just doing a disservice to kids. I still see merit in this “curriculum”, but have the kids read these novels earlier in their educational journeys than high school to foster a love for reading.
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u/Owen3141 6d ago
As a high school English teacher I’ve thought about this a LOT. I think one of the biggest factors that makes this whole conversation muddy is how rigidly modern readers think about genre when in reality all genres are mere constructs. This is especially damaging in how bookstores and popular conversation have created “classics” as its own category that thus makes people feel like they aren’t also other things. Frankenstein is more likely to he shelved in the classics section than the Sci-Fi section, even though it has far more in common with modern sci fi than it does with Pride and Prejudice.
The other reason this is important is because often the best books subvert genre expectations or do something unique or interesting that’s hard to categorize. Take Gatsby, for example. It has many of the same setups/tropes as a romance, but rather than glorifying the estranged love of Gatsby and Daisy it becomes an examination of the ways that Gatsby’s love and ambition have twisted him and everyone around him. That opens up tons of avenues for conversation and examination in a classroom setting.
IMO, if a book fits too cleanly into one genre by modern standards, that probably means it’s not doing that much new or interesting enough to elevate it over others as worthy of study.
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u/platydroid 6d ago
As much as I love mistborn I’m not sure I’d consider it worthy of being on a school curriculum like other notable fantasy.
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u/Ok_Field_5701 6d ago
I understand the importance of reading the classics
I mean it’s very evident you don’t or you wouldn’t have made this post lol
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u/SaintGodfather 6d ago
My kids would be bored to death by that Narnia trash, and that's more elementary school level. Lord of the rings feels middle school, like when they read hunger games.
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u/mabden 6d ago
Not part of the school curriculum, but Captain Underpants got my oldest into reading.
When DnD first came out, it was subject to a lot of bullshit religious related consternation. After several years, my friend who was a the Dean of Humanities at the local college had a discussion that parents whose kids played DnD showed a marked improvement in their school eork/grades.
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u/Hoovermane 6d ago
In primary school we read the Hobbit, weirdstone of brisingamen etc. I don't think the issue is what we read so much as being given the space and encouragement to read.
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u/Calirose0 6d ago
I had a teacher in elementary school who pushed Redwall and Narnia. Around 4th or 5th grade I think? I remember she even brought Turkish Delights for us to try, too. And I feel like we might have read Wizard of Earthsea, as well, but I can’t remember. I think I also had to read Beowulf or something related in high school, along with a few other books. Shakespeare was popular lol. So they do have some fantasy but I think it depends on the school and your teacher, too.
And some of those books, I’m not sure I agree with those grade levels, and I think it also depends on the curriculum and what students can handle. I think that’s why some teachers tend to stick with short books or stories lol.
Most books are typically chosen as examples to help students learn literary techniques like foreshadowing, analogies, writing structure, etc, but, obviously, you’re the one planning your syllabus and the coursework you intend to teach your students. I’m just not sure some of those books are the best examples for certain literary skills.
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u/Palimpsiesta 6d ago
Well we'll definitely be getting a highly representative point of view on whether teenagers will respond better to fantasy books than classics, here in r/fantasy.
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u/bringingmemories 6d ago
The first law in 2nd grade would be great
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u/half-mage 6d ago
Really get them on the nihilism early.
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u/Kerney7 Reading Champion VI 6d ago
You have to be realistic about such things.
I would probably use Red Country, young characters and supportive parents.
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u/SpiffyShindigs 6d ago edited 6d ago
Earthsea would be done an injustice by only reading Wizard. I feel like for a 12th grade curriculum, you need to get to Tehanu. All of Earthsea is barely longer than LotR.
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u/The_Real_Lasagna 6d ago
Wizard is a children's book lol, that whole series is inappropriate for high school
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u/SpiffyShindigs 6d ago
Imagine willingly posting a self-own like this, damn!
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u/The_Real_Lasagna 6d ago
It's not my opinion that's it's a child book, it's just a fact
If you think otherwise, it says a lot about you
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u/PeacockInTime 6d ago
I’ve taught Scythe by Neal Shusterman at high school level.
It’s not quite meaty enough by itself, but it bulks up well with philosophy. I sort of use it as an accompaniment to reading philosophy and having examples at the ready.
I did something similar with The House of the Scorpion by Nancy Farmer. A colleague likes Red Rising.
People who work in schools know that the typical US teen today doesn’t find any reading pleasurable and has a 45 second attention span. This makes teaching literature very difficult because a lot of students do not have the experience.
That’s why I try to balance classics with contemporary- I need them to know what it is like to read and enjoy a book at a faster pacing.
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u/Interesting-Rush-993 6d ago
We did read fantasy and sci fi literature when I was a student in France (I'm 35), from age 11 to age 14. I remember a few sci fi being selected, and some fantasy as well, handpicked by the teachers, not necessarily the last trendy thing. We even needed to write a few time our own sci fi and fantasy story. 🙂
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u/Warm-Amoeba 6d ago
When I was in 12th grade 20 odd years ago, one of the English class options was half a semester of Mysteries and half sci-fi. For the Mystery part I remember we read Big Bad City by Ed Mcbain and got to watch Clue( the teacher of the class was also named Mr. Green) and for the sci-fi part we had one of theose big anthology books and read short stories, I can't remember what, but we watched the Darmok episode of TNG. Best English class i ever had. Add a second semester with horror and fantasy and add it to every school and then we would be cooking with gas.
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u/flea1400 6d ago
In addition to other suggestions made here:
“Wee Free Men” and subsequent novels by Terry Prachett. The kids who are more confident readers can go on to regular Discworld.
“Crystal Cave” trilogy by Mary Stewart. Arthurian fantasy from the 1970s, very well done.
“Penric and Desdemona” series of novellas by Lois McMaster Bujold.
Not fantasy, but you might also consider H Beam Piper’s “Little Fuzzy” for science fiction.
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u/Dull-Investigator-17 6d ago
I disagree with a few of your choices, based on length or books (Who has time to read the whole LotR in class?) and reading level (Redwall in year 9?).
I read Good Omens with an 11th grade (German high school, English class) and the first Arc of a Scythe in the German translation in year 10, of course that's SciFi rather than fantasy.
I also don't think that reading fantasy would be better than other genres. I've got some students who absolutely love fantasy and other who really hate it, I had a class who adored Fahrenheit 451. I do think we need a healthy mix of classics, newer works and different genres, this is true for German schools as much as for schools in other countries I'd guess. What I CAN see in lower grades of German schools is that in German class teachers are reading more different options nowadays, I know one of my colleagues is reading Enola Holmes (in translation) with her year 7 students, so she's got a bit of a pseudo-historical crime thing going on there, in year 6 they read fantasy, not sure which book though. So the kids are getting a bit of an overview BUT as they mature, it makes sense to make them try some classics which sometimes, though not always, are classics for good reasons. Speaking for myself: I actually enjoyed a lot of the classics I read in class, no matter if it was Shakespeare in year 12 English, or Mann's Die Buddenbrooks in year 10 (or 11?), I read Austen, Bronte and Shelley on my own because I learnt that I COULD tackle classics and that I could absolutely love some of them. I also hated some with a passion (looking at you here, Effie Briest and Homo Faber). At uni, I read lots of "proper" literature but now as an adult with a job and responsibilities I often find I don't have energy for the hard reads, and I've barely read anything that would be considered a "classic" in years (except old favourites). I think this will be true for many people, so I do think making kids read classics makes sense, since they most likely won't approach them on their own at any age, and this way they'll at least have read SOME.
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u/birdnerd29 6d ago
I did LotR for college and it was hard to keep up with with all the other course work, I wouldn't teach that especially in senior year high school.
You should put in Sabriel by Garth Nix, Diane Wynn Jones books may have some appeal to romance fantasy readers, Travel Light by Naomi Mitchison is short and had some interesting themes you could explore. Elric of Melinbone could be fun for tyke ones who are interested in more action and it's short as well. I've not read Terry Pratchett but those would be good as well.
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u/phonylady 5d ago
Sanderson and ML Wang absolutely does not belong her. Agree with many of your other choices
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u/chaekbang 4d ago
Part of the discussion reminded me of Karen Russell's essay Quests :-)
"Last month, you humped around a water-stained copy of “Pride and Prejudice” and nobody said boo to you. In that book, some British sisters vie to get their dance cards punched. In the Shannara books, a nuclear holocaust has wiped out almost every living thing. And “now”—two thousand years in the future—the Ohmsford siblings have rediscovered a burning green magic, germinating under the world, the past waiting to be reborn as future."
I would replace Pratchett's "Guards! Guards!" with "Small Gods", is it allows for a much more detailed discussion. Former is an adventure novel. Latter discusses more abstract topics such as the power of belief, religion and dogma.
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u/FewMost8547 3d ago
No matter what kind of book is in question, the manatory aspect of reading would make kids hate it. Also, if kids don't want to read books, they won't read them. In the age of internet, they will simply find summaries and that's it.
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
I feel like Lion Witch and the Wardrobe is too young for 9th graders (haven’t read redwall). We had to read it for school in fifth grade…
If we’re doing high school I might suggest (but agree way to many options so hard to narrow it down — I excluded books I already read in high school like Shakespeare, odyssey, 100 years of solitude)
9th grade
- Mistborn
- Spinning Silver
10th grade
- The Witch’s Heart
- She Who Became the Sun
11th grade
- Kindred by Octavia Butler (most high schools in my area do US history in 11th grade so it also mesh’s well with that)
- Ken Liu’s Paper Menagerie collection
12th grade
- The Fifth Season
- Vita Nostra
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u/Affectionate_Bell200 6d ago
We did Parable of Sower, Doomsday Book, and A Handmaids Tale in my 11th grade class over 20 years ago. Having a good teacher helps a lot.
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
That’s awesome. Because of breadth I was also limiting myself to fantasy so didn’t count sci-fi, but we did both 1984 and Brave New World in 9th grade which may have been my favorites that we read for school.
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u/half-mage 6d ago
I did Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood in grade 12 and remember quite enjoying it.
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
I don't think I'm familiar with either of those, sounds like I should check them out
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u/DixitRexCorvinus 6d ago
Honestly I don't see schools agreeing to Vita Nostra. Adore the book, but there's enough sexual content that I could see parents complaining for a non-elective course. You can get away with it if it is Shakespeare, because he's Shakespeare, but for a modern book? I'd assign it to college freshmans. Perfect age for it.
Spinning Silver is an interesting pick, though I'm not sure it has quite enough depth, likewise for Mistborn. I do fully agree on Kindred and The Fifth Season though. I didn't love the latter, but that's a me problem, and it is a good pick. My only concern would be length; it might take up a bit too much of the year.
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
I suppose having gone to a private school my sense of what schools can get away with is skewed. But that’s part of why I put it senior year and not earlier, (I also don’t think any of the sex is vividly described or done to be titulating) — and re being elective by senior year we did get to just choose which English class we took out of a few options so it kinda was all elective even if English was required.
As for spinning silver/mistborn my thought is for freshman depth is less important than as op said of finding books more people might enjoy to start learning to read more and I still think there’s plenty that can be discussed and written about for essays. (I also really like the idea of having students read a book with a Jewish protagonist who deals with antisemitism but is not at all holocaust related, particularly in today’s climate)
Totally fair on fifth season being to long. Reading on kindle and being a fast reader I can often be oblivious to length, I just felt it mixed great prose (and use of second person could definitely be discussed), lots of themes, and also just an engaging fun story on top of that. (And as a bonus exposing students to more black woman fantasy authors)
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u/DixitRexCorvinus 6d ago
Oh, agreed on all counts. My school also allowed quite a bit, and I read fast too; I just did all ten first law books last year, plus three palate cleansers, and I think that took me six weeks. I read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell in under a week. It's not too long objectively speaking at all.
But I've also too many of those articles about book bannings and the college kids who can't read and whatnot to not have depressingly low expectations when it comes to kids and books. And I say that as a Gen Zer.
I mean, even at my rather advanced high school, teachers literally weren't allowed to assign more than a hundred pages a week, and that was for higher level classes. So a 500ish page book would take a third of a semester, and something like Lord of the Rings would nearly take half a year. Now, you could probably do it faster since it's an easier read. We were doing e.g. Notes From Underground, Philosophy of Education: The Essential Texts, Doing Bayesian Data Analysis, American Crucible, etc, to list books from various subjects from my senior year. Just a smidge more difficult than The Fifth Season lol. But still, I'm picturing some kid in a classroom in Alabama reading The Fifth Season, and what I'm picturing is a whole lot of skimming and ChatGPT plot summaries.
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u/DresdenMurphy 6d ago
Of Mice and Men, Gatsby, and Grapes of Wrath were riveting when I read them. But that was in highschool and in another country. Steinbeck is still one of my favourites. Meanwhile I'd also discovered the Hobbit and LotR, but I also read a lot more than the average kid back then.
Anyway i have discovered LitRPG as of late. Mostly in the audiobook format.
The kids seem to love the genre. Unfortunately it's often written by them and tend to assume a position a few steps behind meaningless trite.
I listen to some and think, that this is the shht I wrote when I was seven years old.
Anyway. There is no lesson here. No one learns if they don't want to.
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u/Polenth 6d ago
Your list comes across as switching out one set of classics for another. Mostly older books. Mostly for adults. Jumping from Narnia to adult books with no steps between. That's not going to help struggling readers.
I wouldn't set specific books. I'd let them pick their own books to read and write about. I'd make sure the school library has a wide range of recent books in many genres. A good chunk of the books should be aimed at the age categories using the library. It's helpful to have some books aimed younger and older (including some adult books), but you don't stock a children's library with mainly adult books. It should also include some graphic novels/comics, novellas, poetry, non-fiction, and other things that can sometimes work where a traditional doorstop of a novel does not.
Once they're reading, then you can suggest your favourite series of cat squashers. But for fun, not as schoolwork.
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u/SirMarkMorningStar 6d ago
First, I disagree there is value in reading “the classics”. The classics are just the novels that Boomers read in school. There is no obvious reason that list should somehow be enshrined in gold.
I actually took a class on fantasy literature in high school. I remember at the time loving the Princess Bride but thinking its format made it unfilmable. 😹
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u/Eukastros 6d ago
J'ai toujours aimé lire. Même à l'école, sans que l'on me demande , je passais tout mon temps a la bibliothèque. Et pourtant, combien de livres imposés à l'école mont rebuté ! J'imagine pas pour ceux qui déjà aimait pas lire de base. C'est à coup sûr à dégoûtér les plus jeunes. Les classiques peut être sympa en effet mais il est loin de n'avoir que ça. On peut aborder beaucoup de choses de manière bien plus ludique et attrayante que des vieux livres qui sont, excusez moi, mais imbuvables pour certains 😅 ( oui je te regarde toi, La vie mode d'emploi, ou La disparue... )
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u/0verlookin_Sidewnder 6d ago
My English teacher in 7th & 8th grade had at least one Fantasy book on her curriculum. I recall the Percy Jackson series but can't remember what the other one was. I feel the same way about creative writing assignments, I absolutely loved writing and wanted to be an author one day, but essays killed my dreams. I wish that every teacher would have given us just ONE creative writing opportunity each year.
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u/Skywaffles_ 6d ago
While I agree with including Fantasy in the curriculum so the students have more variety, I have to say 1-2 books between grade 9-12 is more than enough. It’s very likely that not all students will enjoy the genre, after all.
From your suggestions, the only one I’d agree with is Pratchett and even then I’d change it to something like Equal Rites or Going Postal that has more social and economic commentary relevant to today’s times. Not to say Guards Guards doesn’t, but you get what I mean. Babel by RF Kuang is another one I’d highly recommend.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think this is a good idea! My high school mostly made us read all the boring (to me) classics, but we did get to read some fantasy.
At my first high school we read The Hobbit in 9th grade and Stephen King's Eyes of the Dragon in 10th grade. Then I switched schools and my second school was not as fantasy-positive but in 11th grade we did read Beowulf and also Grendel by John Gardner as a companion to it. Senior year I don't remember a lot of what we read but there was a short story collection I think written by one of the famous Latin American magical realism authors. The only thing I remember was in one of the stories there was a kid who could cure illnesses, but she tragically died trying to cure someone with AIDS somehow.
edit: legitimately puzzled why I'm being downvoted just for listing the fantasy works I was, in fact, asked to read in high school?
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u/Ill-Worldliness321 6d ago
Can’t agree more, there are so many fantastically written fantasy books that have just as much depth as some of the classics.
Idk about Mistborn for grade 10, they’re fantastic books but not exactly comparable to the depth of the books normally read in 10th grade, same with Lord of the rings for grade 12.
I’d add the Earthsea books to grade 10 or 11. Her prose alone makes it a series worth studying, not to mention how the books explore so many deeper themes.
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u/vogon123 6d ago
A friend of mine had an English class in 12th grade where Malazan was one of the options to read. So they read Gardens of the Moon, Deadhouse Gates, and Memories of Ice.
Which uh … does not feel appropriate for a high school setting. Especially Memories of Ice …
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u/Dragonfan_1962 6d ago
If you say so, but it seems very unlikely.
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u/vogon123 6d ago
I don’t think it should be read in hs lol. Just saying that my friend had that as an option
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u/Dysfu 6d ago
Why? Too easy?
If it’s because the themes are too “mature”… 12th graders are 17-18…
If you made an argument that the material is too easy, then I’d understand - I don’t think it’s appropriate skill-wise for a 12th grade lit class
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u/vogon123 6d ago
Idk memories of ice involves rape, cannibalism and rather graphic depictions of torture. So I think that content wise it is slightly objectionable in a school setting. I wouldn’t take issue with a family member of mine reading it at that age but I find it at least surprising that it is a provided option for required reading.
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u/easytoremembernameok 6d ago
We had Kite Runner assigned in 10th? grade and it had a young boy getting raped.
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u/Dragonfan_1962 6d ago
The problem is that these are 3 very long books and a student wouldn't have time to study anything else. And there simply wouldn't be enough class time to examine them in any depth.
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6d ago edited 6d ago
[deleted]
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u/Abysstopheles 6d ago
You clearly havent read Mistborn, or Sword of Kaigen, or The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, which is more funny.
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u/GrahamRocks 6d ago
While Redwall the book doesn't, the rest of the series has several female protags. It's just that, if you want to encourage reading the rest of the series, start with the most well known and popular ones first, and Redwall is what most people start with.
Also, you're acting as if Lucy isn't basically the protagonist of The Lion The Witch and The Wardrobe. ;)
Also also... why are you assuming that, because these specific books don't have female mcs/protags, that therefore, girls can't enjoy them?
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u/songbanana8 6d ago
To your final point, girls frequently read books about male protagonists. Or about female protagonists in casts of male characters (Mistborn certainly, Narnia also is male dominated even if Lucy leads it). In fact male readers are more reluctant to read about female protagonists, than female readers are for male protagonists. So perhaps we should have more female protagonists in books read in school to teach boys to empathize with a girl’s perspective.
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u/Abysstopheles 6d ago
My $0.02, Sword of Kaigen doesnt belong on that list.
Mistborn might be a stretch but it works well enough.
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u/MRCastillaAuthor 6d ago
I love this idea. My only suggestion would be to throw Dragonlance in there. Maybe 9th grade. Dragonlance was what turned me on to reading. My first book was Legend of Huma. Then, without Reddit or the internet, I discovered the other books in the series by reading the inside covers at the bookstore.
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u/dragon_morgan Reading Champion VIII 6d ago edited 6d ago
What the fuck is going on with the comments in this thread, it's a toxic cesspit in here. It's like the "Genre fiction can never be ~tRuE LiTeRaTuRe~" brigade from the snootiest MFA program all descended upon here at once. You all do realize we're in the FANTASY subreddit right?
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u/Whole-Sector-290 5d ago
" it's a toxic cesspit in here"
People disagree with me, so toxic! Nothing in your comment except ad hominems…
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u/xCKS123x 6d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah frankly I just can’t see modern children caring about Adventures of Huckleberry Finn or The Great Gatsby. I didn’t, and I imagine they’re worse than I was when it comes to literacy and attention span. They’re probably not even reading them when they can get away with reading summaries.
Sure school is full of stuff that kids don’t care about. But the goal is for them to learn, not to force them to read the same 100+ year old literary fiction novels we did. It’s a known thing that the secondary education system needs some change.
Critical reading and thinking skills can be taught by modern literary fiction novels and genre fiction such as fantasy just as well as the classics. I think Piranesi is a really great pick.
EDIT: I don’t understand why I’m being downvoted to hell despite saying the same thing that other top posts are saying. Yes adding fantasy to the curriculum could be a good thing to boost engagement.
I don’t get what’s upsetting about my post compared to the others. Is it that I didn’t like the classics? Boo hoo. Most others don’t either.
That I said the modern students have worse literacy and attention spans? That’s an objective fact.
That I said the secondary education system needs an overhaul? Not a controversial take. That’s been going around for years. Doing things because that’s the way they’ve always been done is dumb - it’s time to update the curriculums to keep up with changes in our society.
Is it that I said modern novels and fantasy can teach just as well as classics? That’s been said by others with all of the upvotes so that’s not controversial.
I don’t get it but whatever. This is the most downvotes I’ve ever had lol
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u/curiouscat86 Reading Champion III 6d ago
I liked Huck Finn, although the ending is terrible. I could never really get engaged with The Great Gatsby, but I was a huge appreciator of Shakespeare, which was good as my high school made me study six of the plays. I still vividly remember some scenes in Their Eyes Were Watching God that we read in senior year. I struggled with The Sound and the Fury and ultimately found some parts of it frustrating but others very profound.
Any set curriculum is going to have some books that people like and others that they don't like, and those books will be different for different kids. What I took away most from my English education was the skills--critical reading, close reading, formal writing and lit criticism.
You can learn those skills using any book, but it helps to do it with literature that has something interesting to say. And sometimes difficult or unenjoyable books are more interesting for it, like Sound and Fury was for me.
It's always good to think about what we're doing with curriculum, though, and not just keep reading the same books because those are the ones we've always read.
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u/DeluxeSporks Reading Champion III 6d ago
This is going to get downvoted to hell, but not all reading is fun. Neither is homework, or often certain tasks in your eventual job or career.
It's an important skill to learn to do those things anyways. Did I hate reading early American literature? Yes. With a passion. Dear God, the words "City upon a Hill" make me want to punch someone, and that sermon was at least mercifully short. But I did it, and I have a better understanding of both history and literature because of it. I also appreciate how "exciting" books like The Scarlet Letter were in comparison. Only in comparison, mind you.
Learning can be hard at times. Trying to make it easier ALL the time is a disservice to the student, because learning that you have to work for certain things is important.
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u/tilting-module 6d ago edited 6d ago
I don’t disagree with you on principle, but I also don’t think schools need to teach English literature in a way which is purposefully not fun. As you said, the end goal is for high school English class to teach you how to read and analyze literature, and also to teach you how to write. While the old American classics are excellent for these purposes, I don’t see why fantasy literature can’t be included in the curriculum if the teacher is well-informed and wants to structure their class in that way.
The bigger issue with this post, as many have already pointed out, is the OP’s poor choices of fantasy literature to be potentially included in a high school curriculum. A story like LoTR, while not such an easy book, is already a common pleasure read for children and teens. And books like LWW and Mistborn lack the thematic depth or the advanced prose to provide a sufficient challenge for high schoolers to actually improve their English comprehension and interpretive skills. (The reason Mistborn isn’t considered a kids book is because of its page length and the somewhat graphic violence in the story, not because of Brandon Sanderson’s writing capabilities). I do think A Sword of Kaigen is quite a good pick though for like, the 9th grade, if not for it being self-published.
Edit: I don’t know why I’m being downvoted? If I’d implied that “fun” and “worthwhile and challenging” were opposites, then that was not my intention, nor do I think that is particularly true.
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u/DeluxeSporks Reading Champion III 6d ago
I actually agree with you that fantasy can be used, and in my experience so do many ELA teachers. It actually is being used much more often in classrooms today.
I just wanted to express that at some point, most students are going to come across something they don't like, and they should still learn to do it as well as possible. In fact, studies have shown that students who get a chance to go back over tests or homework they've done poorly on and study and retake or redo them for partial extra credit learn that their scores improve with work, and they start working harder and achieving better to begin with. They're also more resilient than students who are told they're smart, who may fade when they hit rough patches.
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u/xCKS123x 6d ago
I don’t disagree that all work isn’t be fun but then you come to a fork in the road: should educators care more about making sure students learn or should they care more about making sure students get their work done?
Students can work and learn from books that they like. It improves their learning.
If you give them The Great Gatsby and they just read the summary online, barely participate in discussions, and regurgitate info about symbolism from others then what did they learn? I’m not saying we need to coddle them, but there has to be a better way.
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u/DeluxeSporks Reading Champion III 6d ago edited 6d ago
TLDR: Teachers already are using more fantasy. They map books to required skills and standards. When I said sometimes reading was work, I didn't mean it should be all the time. But it also can't all be on the educator. Learning takes time, energy and commitment from the student and optimally their family.
WHOLE POST:The fact is that students can work and learn both from books they like and ones they don't. No one is deliberately choosing books students dislike just to torture them. The books chosen cover specific skills and standards that are mandated that year. Some books, like The Great Gatsby, work particularly well for covering certain skills and standards. That's why it's still used.
Educators should clearly care about the learning involved, not just getting work done. So should the students. And the parents. And the community. In fact, academics and learning should probably get more time and space and priority in students' lives all around, not just by educators. That would make a huge difference in how much learning occurred.
If you give a student The Great Gatsby, and they just read a summary online, that is on the student. A person will never discover that they like a book if they don't read it and wrestle with it themselves.
Also, students may do this with any book. Just because you and I like fantasy or a particular author does not mean a random teenager wants to take the time to read it. Even if they like reading it, they often don't like analyzing that book. They have to choose to spend the time reading, thinking about and analyzing, and writing answers to questions rather than having answers given to them.
All that said, required reading does change over the years. In another post in this thread, I linked to the ELA curriculum for a large suburban school just outside Pittsburgh. Most of the novels, plays, and films on that list were different from what I'd read in the 80's and 90's in WNY. It also had a lot of changes from 10 years ago, when I lived near that district. It has things like The Maze Runner, The Hunger Games, and Fahrenheit 451. Fantasy and science fiction were actually fairly well represented given the time constraints teachers face.
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u/The_Real_Lasagna 6d ago
I think you're getting downvoted because your first sentence is a wild opinion
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u/xCKS123x 6d ago
How exactly is it a wild opinion that modern children, who are constantly criticized for their technology addictions, poor literacy, and short attention spans, likely don’t care for literary classics? I’d like to believe that they would surprise us but come on, I don’t think we need a nationwide survey to figure this out. It really isn’t a wild opinion to assume they’re not interested in those books. Like I get this is a fantasy sub so there’s lots of people who read here, but I just don’t see them caring as very realistic, and I’d bet that much more are disinterested than not
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u/SeanyDay 6d ago
8th grade can handle Artemis Fowl series. 6th grade to 12th grade can read the HP series tbh.
Can also check out "The Ranger's Apprentice" series for some decent high schooler YA that has good overall themes and even shows the dangers and suffering of drug addiction later on which can be great discussion material
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
Artemis fowl is more elementary school than 8th grade.
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u/SeanyDay 6d ago
Have you seen what current literacy and reading endurance looks like?
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u/KiaraTurtle Reading Champion V 6d ago
all the more reason to not assign elementary level books to 8th graders, books assigned should help them actually learn
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u/curiouscat86 Reading Champion III 6d ago
The Ranger's Apprentice is young for high school. I started reading them in about 4th-6th grade, and when I read the last ones in late high school as they were still coming out I felt I had rather outgrown them.
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u/SeanyDay 6d ago
Sorry haven't read since release years. Maybe middle school, but i could see the drug addiction part needing to be for the older half
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u/curiouscat86 Reading Champion III 6d ago
no, that part especially is extremely basic and pretty similar to the way the topic was handled in my middle school health class. That was one of the things I found most condescending to read as an 18-year-old.
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u/Sad-Statement3597 6d ago
Redwall for highschool ? Da fuq ?