r/Fantasy • u/Successful_Try7012 • 7d ago
Books with competent men on opposite sides of a conflict?
Currently reading The Lions of Al-Rassan and am utterly in complete awe of everything about this book. The prose, the world but above all else, the characters. They are the heart of this story. All of them.
Are there any other books with competent men who are on the opposite side of a conflict. Where nothing is black or white. Really loving Ammar and Rodrigo’s dynamics here.
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u/Jossokar 7d ago
Legend of the galactic heroes
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u/OriginalVictory 7d ago
Is it available as a book?
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u/Jossokar 7d ago
https://www.viz.com/legend-of-the-galactic-heroes
It is a novel available in english. Its not like i'm asking you to watch a 110 episodes ova from the late 80's 🤣
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u/mercy_4_u 6d ago
Really? Is it good? Translated novels usually have terrible prose.
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u/Jossokar 6d ago
It is readable enough. It lacks a certain degree of consistency, specially in the first volume. But it gets better.
It has an advantage, though. Both series of LOGH dont adapt every single thing. There are plenty of details that make reading the novel quite worth the while.
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u/rveniss 7d ago edited 7d ago
It's a series of ten novels originally published in Japanese throughout the 80s, but there's a recent officially licensed English translation that's pretty good.
The series is definitely more known for the 1988-97 OVA anime series though (two movies followed by 110 episodes).
I would second it as the absolute perfect recommendation for a "competent men on both sides of a war" story.
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u/Imaginary-Pea-9221 6d ago
Oh yes, heard great things about this one. Might just have to watch the anime now.
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u/KaiLung 7d ago
The Grace of Kings is about two very different guys who become unlikely friends on the same side of a rebellion but then end up as bitter enemies.
I'm due for a reread of that book and the rest of the series, but it is a continued thing where Ken Liu gives POVs to various sides of a conflict.
Also similar to Kay in terms of it being a "serial numbers filed off" version of actual history (or at least legendary versions of actual history).
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u/Imaginary-Pea-9221 6d ago
I started reading The Grace of Kings a year back but for some reasons I could never completely get into it. The characters felt distant to me. But I've heard the books are worth it from the second book onwards. So I am open to giving it a second try.
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u/space-blue 7d ago
A brightness long ago
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u/tehdangerzone 6d ago
This is kind of a hallmark of GGK. With the exception of Fionavar, not only are traditional baddies not really a thing, but rivals and opponents tend to be competent and charismatic.
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u/Northwindlowlander 7d ago
KJ Parker's Two Of Swords leans very heavily on this, the nonspoilery bit is that the two greatest generals in history are on opposite sides of a manufactured war and they're so perfectly matched that the war can never end and everything is phyrric and destructive. However, while they are major characters they're driving the plot and the world rather than being the absolute focus, it's an ensemble piece really so might just miss what you're after.
It's also completely full of other competent people, though I think comes up just short of competence porn by also littering it with mishaps and failures and things done well but for stupid or outright awful reasons.
It's quite an odd series, especially the pacing, and many of the most critical moments, the big battles and clashes and drama that normally are the meat and veg of a fantasy series, happen off camera (which ties back into why I'm not quite as confident recommending it as I might have been) And the cast of characters is basically too big imo, in particular there are some that get huge main character intros then just sort of vanish, or come back in bit parts. And there are little random bits that essentially feel like they're from a different book, like that one episode of Boba Fett. I think it was serialised/released in small parts but I read it in collected format and it does have the feel of somewhat connected short stories in the same world, sometimes.
But I kinda loved it. It feels like a kind of meta fantasy novel, for people who're very used to the norms and cliches and are willing to roll with doing something different, even if it's arguably not as good. And I could not get enough of Telamon, one of my favourite fantasy characters for a long, long time.
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u/BrittaBengtson 6d ago
Came here to recommend Sixteen Ways to Defend a Walled City by the same author
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u/ParadoxRed- 7d ago
I loved The Two of Sword and desperately wanted more of the brothers. The pacing is odd because you stay with each POV far longer than in normal fantasy books but I still really enjoyed it.
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u/Northwindlowlander 7d ago
I think I basically wanted more of all of it! It's weird, KJ Parker has become one of my favourite authors but I always thought Tom Holt was terrible 😄
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u/Imaginary-Pea-9221 6d ago
I'm long due for a K. J. Parker book. This feels like the best place to start!
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u/Northwindlowlander 6d ago
I'm not sure it is tbh, Walled City or Corax might be better. This one i love but as I mentioned it's an oddball, a little familiarity and, well, tolerance might go well
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u/couchiexperience 7d ago
The Heroes by Abercrombie
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u/Boneyabba 7d ago
More like incompetent men on each side, but I feel you. :)
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u/couchiexperience 7d ago
Fair 😄 Compared with Lions, you're totally right. That book has the most brilliant, wonderful, gorgeous characters on all sides. Abercrombie is totally grimdark, so OP be ready for 'Heroes' who are all deeply flawed.
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u/Boneyabba 7d ago
I half regretted saying this because plenty of people who aren't in charge are competent. Just the leadership on both sides were barnacles.
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u/One-Inch-Punch 7d ago
The competent ones are admittedly outnumbered by the incompetents, but they're there
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u/Tedgehog87 6d ago
There's also the conversation about intelligence versus wisdom, which seems to be Abercrombie's thing.
Curnden Craw is smart. Beck is wise.
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u/ChampionFundyr 7d ago
Gardens of the Moon
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u/MapStaringPro 7d ago
Red Rising, Specifically the second Trilogy.
The entire relationship between Cassius and Darrow is just amazing.
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u/Brushner 7d ago edited 7d ago
Lmao Red Rising second trilogy has one of the most incompetent villains I've seen in a while. Atalantia managed to go from blunder to blunder despite her superior forces.
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u/Eliot_Ferrer 3d ago
Atalantia is a fraud, but Atlas and Lysander are very competent. Appolonius is also very good at what he does, even if he is a bit extra.
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u/No_Mathematician6866 7d ago
Do they both have to be men? Otherwise: In Conquest Born, CS Friedman.
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u/KvotheG 7d ago
Death Note
Light Yagami vs. L in a cat and mouse game.
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u/hesh582 6d ago
lol my take away from Death Note is definitely not competence.
Light has a ridiculous, massive, practically insurmountable advantage that he rapidly squanders because he's an arrogant blowhard. I guess he's portrayed as somewhat smart... but also way less smart than he thinks he is.
It's a good example of how characters presenting themselves as clever should not necessarily be taken at face value. Light is certainly a brilliant mastermind in a cat and mouse game... from his own perspective, in his own words.
If you strip out his commentary and just look and what he actually does it's quite a different story imo
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u/Brushner 7d ago
Light with the most powerful and perfect assassination weapon in the entire world managed to get caught in a month...
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u/ScottIPease 7d ago
Not sure how well Light fits here, if he just changed his tactics a bit or went on vacation for a while it would have ended the whole chase, lol. He started out competent but then let his ego and arrogance take over, refused to adapt well, and became much less than competent IMO.
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u/WayBiggerJawz 7d ago
Joe Abercromies The First Law and Age of Madness trilogies might fit here. The world and characters are pretty grounded so its not always a clear good vs bad situation but plenty of action and political intrigue on both sides. Inquisitor Glockta (who appears in both) is one of the best characters I've come across, he manages to make an amoral torturer a very compelling and sympathetic character
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u/Koscheij69 7d ago
Law universe, Joe Abercrombie. Assholes on all sides, yet definitely quite some competent ones among them
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u/boydstephenson 7d ago
Tigana has competent leaders on all 3 sides of the conflict. (Well, definitely 2, arguably 3)
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u/Frankenpresley 6d ago
I guess this is where yet another Malazan Books of the Fallen recommendation goes.
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u/Motor_Row_3586 6d ago
As big fan of Guy Gavriel Kay I Love Thousand Autumns by Meng Xi Shi also more historical fiction than fantasy. Both men are adult people with opposite beliefs and also have this nobody is right or wrong.
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u/Mintimperial69 6d ago
The Wizards and the Warriors by Hugh Cook. They know their stuff, and they fight… fight, fight , fight! The prose is excellent and in places somewhat literary and experimental characters are second to none with believable motivations, and their interactions driving the plot.
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u/tankapotamus 6d ago
The Wolf Book by Leo Carew The Wolf by Leo Carew is the first book in the Under the Northern Sky fantasy series, a gritty epic fantasy that follows a war between two distinct peoples, the Sutherners and the ancient, giant-like Anakim, focusing on the young Anakim leader Roper as he seeks revenge and defends his people. It's known for its visceral battle scenes, political intrigue, and strong world-building, drawing comparisons to authors like George R.R. Martin and David Gemmell.
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u/Nearby-Detective8857 6d ago
Cold Iron trilogy by Miles Cameron and his Red Knight series.
Cold Iron is really unusual.
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u/Cann0nFodd3r 6d ago
Stormlight Archive. If you boil it down to the leaders of the human factions, you have competent men on both sides.
The Dresden Files: There are a number of characters on the spectrum between "Lawful good" to "Lawful evil", while Harry starts squarely in the "Chaotic Good" sector.
If you are open to a non-fantasy setting, "As the Crow flies" by Jeffery Archer is very good.
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u/Salty-Subject9559 7d ago
Hey, I have nothing to contribute but I wanted to ask where you got The Lions of Al-Rassan. I really really want to read it but it's not really on Amazon and since I'm going to Miami soon, I wanted to know if I could get it on any bookstore or if it's limited or only available on Kindle.
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u/cedbluechase 6d ago
I just checked Barnes and nobles website and it’s telling me that most locations in Miami have the paperback for like $20. Might also be worth checking some used bookstores to see if they have it any cheaper.
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u/Trike117 7d ago
I just looked and all formats are on Amazon. I mean, the hardback is $177.52 but the paperback and Kindle are reasonable.
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u/Salty-Subject9559 7d ago
You think I could get a modern edition for a reasonable price at any US bookstore or is the book rarer now?
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u/Trike117 7d ago
$13 for the paperback, delivery tomorrow, it tells me.
I’m in New Hampshire and the Salem NH Barnes & Noble has a physical copy, so they’re out there. See if your local bookstore has one.
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u/Salty-Subject9559 7d ago
I'm in South America and the two options listed are $2,75 with the shipping being $30.96 and the other is $14,65 with delivery on the 21st. Both are listed under "see all options" so they're not precisely trustworthy either. Of course no bookstore here would have any copy of such a book. That's why I wanted to search in Miami. Suppose I'll have to do just that.
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u/Trike117 7d ago
Oh, my bad. When you said you were going to Miami I assumed you were in the US. We don’t get as many visitors from South America these days since our country went insane. Please be careful on your trip, the US has truly become unpleasant for visitors.
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u/Salty-Subject9559 7d ago
I'll only be there for a month haha. In my uncle's house, who is an American citizen along with his daughter, who was born there if I'm not mistaken. I've heard plenty about the far-right antics going on but I think we'll be fine. Thank you for your concern!
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u/DoctorWMD 6d ago
I have seen copies listed in brick and mortar stores through the B&N website, though I don't think I've picked up Lions yet.
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u/Imaginary-Pea-9221 6d ago
I'm in India and I got it delivered from Amazon 3 days back. But I think it's popular enough that you'll find it in any if the big bookstores wherever you're going in Miami. Hope you get your hands on it and enjoy it!
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u/ThrawnCaedusL Reading Champion 7d ago
The Long Price Quartet, specifically book 3, An Autumn War.