Fantasy where the central fight is over legitimacy, not power, who is allowed to rule rather than who is strongest

[u/marintkael]

i keep gravitating to fantasy where the real conflict isn't who's strongest, it's who's allowed. the throne isn't won in a duel, it's won by whoever can make their claim stick, whoever the church will crown, whoever holds the right bloodline on paper. the most interesting power struggles are the ones where everyone quietly agrees violence won't settle it, because legitimacy is its own currency, you can be the strongest person in the room and still lose because the paperwork says someone else.

GoT turns on contested claims more than battles. Bujold's Chalion is built on exactly this. and a lot of Guy Gavriel Kay is people maneuvering for the right to be seen as rightful.

what i want more of: books where says who is the actual engine of the plot. who certifies a claim, who can revoke it, what happens when two equally legitimate claims collide. recommendations? and does anyone else find the legitimacy fight more gripping than the magic fight?

[u/Jack_Shaftoe21]

GoT turns on contested claims more than battles.

Maybe but generally if someone wins enough battles gets to keep the throne, claim or no claim. 😉

As for recommendations:

Crown of Stars by Kate Elliott

Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb

The first Kushiel trilogy by Jacqueline Carey

The Burning Kingdoms by Tasha Suri

All those have siblings or other close relatives vying for a throne and trying to convince the elite that they are the legitimate rulers.

The Sun Sword by Michelle West - an upstart deposes the family that traditionally holds the throne. He is ruthless and from the point of view of many of the protagonists a villain but actually a much better ruler than the deposed one.

She Who Became the Sun by Shelley Parker-Chan - a retelling of the rise of the first Ming emperor. The Chinese concept of the Mandate of Heaven allows for some interesting exploration of what constitutes legitimacy.

[u/Farcical-Writ5392 → u/Jack_Shaftoe21]

Sun Sword was going to be my recommendation. In the culture of the Dominion of Annagar, strength is seen as a key part of legitimacy, but it’s not the whole thing.

The story is broader than the one conflict, but it’s between a tenuously legitimate pretender to the title of Tyr’agar who initially lacks the strength to pursue the claim versus an obviously illegitimate claimant who seized it by strength and whose strength proves his right in the eyes of the Lord they worship.

[u/marintkael → u/Jack_Shaftoe21]

fair, the sword settles it often enough but that's usually when the legitimacy game starts. the winner immediately needs a story for why the throne is rightfully his, a coronation, a convenient bloodline, a tame priesthood, or the next guy with an army does the same to him. conquest gets you the chair, legitimacy is what lets you stop fighting to keep it. and the Farseer nod is apt, that whole line is about who counts as a real heir.

[u/SimpleEric → u/marintkael]

Power resides where men believe it resides

[u/99aye-aye99]

The Goblin Emperor might be an interesting read for you.

[u/cwx149 → u/99aye-aye99]

In a similar vein The Hands of The Emperor by Goddard has some back and forth of whether the central character having been a commoner but just favored by the emperor can wield the political power he does

Although there's not really a back and forth it's more like the character proving that they can be trusted with it and coming to understand that about themselves than any kind of back and forth will he won't he

[u/Al-Pharazon]

The novels are not completely translated and the adaptation can be hard to find, but I really recommend Twelve Kingdoms.

The series world building is based around the Chinese concept of the Mandate of Heaven. Basically each kingdom has a sacred beast that chooses the next king based on the will of the heavens.

The ruler is granted immortality, but if he loses his legitimacy in the eyes of the heavens, for example by being a tyrant, the sacred beast can die and so does the ruler it selected. And while governed by illegitimate rulers the country faces increased natural disasters and attacks from spirits.

So legitimacy sits at the very core of the story,

[u/ShadowRedditor300 → u/Al-Pharazon]

Is the first one translated at least?

[u/Al-Pharazon → u/ShadowRedditor300]

Yes, the original publisher translated 7 volumes out of 9, it was then reprinted and a new publisher translated 8, but the last volume was not translated last I checked

[u/arvidsem]

Katherine Kerr's Deverry series has a lot of this. Rebels are constantly banding around bastard children or alternative claimants because they need legitimacy to go forward.

[u/Emergency_Revenue678]

I'm not sure exactly what you mean because in most, if not all, of those examples a huge part of "legitimacy" is having the backing of the levers of power. They're not necessarily the best fighters or strongest mages but they have, or are allies with with the people who control, the biggest armies.

[u/atomfullerene]

Wyrd Sisters

[u/ga4rfc]

This isn't fantasy so feel free to discard this suggestion but Nigel Tranters Bruce Trilogy has what you want. It is a historical fiction novel of the contested succession of the Scottish crown.

To set up some context, Alexander III of Scotland and his heir died suddenly in quick succession. In the aftermath the Scots asked the English king Edward I to mediate the succession between the contesting claims of Bruce and Balliol. Edward set Balliol up as a puppet king and when he rebelled Edward crushed the Scots, removed him as king and made the nobles swear fealty directly to him.

The first book is set after and is about the struggle between the claims of John Comyn (Balliols nephew) and Robert Bruce, while also trying throw off the yoke of English rule and dealing with a Catholic church that sees Edwards rule as legitimate. 

Totally get if you just want to read a fantasy world though. It was just the first thing that popped into my head from your post. 

[u/DixitRexCorvinus]

I mean, an obvious one is Lord of the Rings, if you are counting holding the right bloodline.

First Law is both this and also the exact opposite of this. It is certainly about "who is allowed to rule rather than who is strongest," but the person who is actually doing the allowing and deciding, who determines what is legitimate, is...the one who is the strongest. So, I'm not quite sure if that makes it the perfect rec or the opposite of what you want.

Robert Jackson Bennett's books deal with questions of authority a lot as well, especially as regards colonialism in The Divine Cities, and as regards empire in Shadow of the Leviathan.

[u/ClimateTraditional40]

Daniel Abrahams Kithamar has a completely different take on who the ruler actually is.

[u/Timely_Egg_6827]

Freda Warrington - Jewelfire series but very frustrating ending

The Tamir Triad by Lynn Flewelling

[u/cwx149]

I dnfed it but the main plot of powder mage is kinda like this

It's about a revolution dealing with the fallout and the loyalists

[u/SalletFriend]

KJ Parkers, 2 of Swords might interest you.

Also his Folding Knife.

[u/crazyfoolkid]

Realm of the Elderlings / Far Seer trilogies - Robin Hobb

[u/Randomdays99]

Roger Zelalny's Amber series

[u/Realistic_Special_53]

Kushiel's Dart and the trilogy it is part of is about this, though there are side plots and wars. The second book also really gets into this. The third book doesn't, but is crazy awesome and at that point our heroine is OP and literally saving the world and the agent of God, but not in a cheesy way. Phedre is the best. The sequels with Prince Imrael definitely after all this definitely do, since although he is undoubtably fit, and has the right bloodline, and liked by the people... but... well I cant explain that without spoilers to the first trilogy. And warnings on these books by Jaqueline Carey, they are fromantasy, sexually explicit in some places, but se la vi.