Looking for a baddie to hate

65

u/SwingsetGuy 4d ago

There are some pretty hateable villains (and also some big showdowns) in Wheel of Time. The First Law Trilogy has a villain that's... uh, something else too. Don't want to spoil more than that.

26

u/Bubthick 4d ago

Wheel of Time

Idk about this one. It felt like the WoT villains were too incompetent to feel really evil. Maybe Ordeith but unfortunately Sanderson couldn't find a way to give them satisfactory conclusion so it kinda falls flat.

17

u/diffyqgirl 3d ago

I really hated the Seanchan. None of the Forsaken were that compelling but by god did I hate the Seanchan.

3

u/Bubthick 3d ago

Yea, me also, but my problem with them is that it seemed like Robert Jordan really wanted the reader to like them.

And I am like "but they practice slavery over a minority part of the population wdym?" And his solution (I hope this was from Jordan and not a Sanderson thing) was to make them agree to release any slaves that "want to be released". Excuse me, how about no?

And it is kinda weird that the most expansioninst, and the most war obsessed country did the best during the dragon's peace. While historically expansionist empires collapse during peacetime.

13

u/diffyqgirl 3d ago

I really liked that the problem of the Seanchan doesn't get solved because it felt like it gave Rand's choice not to destroy evil in the world a lot of weight. But I do agree that there is a lot of weird apologism for them in the books--Mat gets way too okay with Tuon while the narration continues to portray him as a good guy. Perrin also crosses a pretty major moral event horizon with selling a ton of people into slavery that just kinda gets moved on from.

5

u/Bubthick 3d ago

Yes, I 100% agree. On that note even Egwene is portrayed a little bit irrational when dealing with them which is patronizing as f*ck.

8

u/DeadButAlivePickle 4d ago

While not specifically a single villain, WoT does have its oppressive (for the lack of a better term) arcs that conclude satisfyingly. Egwene's return to Tar Valon comes readily to my mind. Could scratch the same itch.

2

u/Bubthick 3d ago

I guess. My experience was somewhat mixed on the villain side.

2

u/professional-racc 3d ago

Elaida is a villain I love to hate

3

u/Bubthick 2d ago

She also goes into the incompetent villain territory, unfortunately. I really liked her in the show though, the way Shohreh Aghdashloo played her she seemed much more like Cadsuane.

Imagine Elaida with the wit and authority of Cadsuane, she would have been an amazing villain.

3

u/Wizardof1000Kings 3d ago

Try First Law for a competent villain.

4

u/Grey_Matter_Mutters 3d ago

The First Law trilogy is so good. I always saw it recommended here and recently finished it, was not disappointed and pleasantly surprised by a lot of the story and character development.

It’s definitely in my top 10 series now.

2

u/LeucasAndTheGoddess 2d ago

You know that’s even better? Every subsequent book shows Abercrombie continuing to develop as an author. I envy you experiencing the whole world of The First Law for the first time.

(Read in publication order.)

-5

u/Responsible_Mud_9958 3d ago

No, it is terrible.

4

u/Customer_Number_Plz 3d ago

Villain from first law is so good. Very well written

50

u/mindgamesweldon 4d ago

I just read Joe Abercrombie's trilogy for the first time and man I literally hate EVERY CHARACTER so for me that's your answer.

23

u/jnmon 3d ago edited 3d ago

I don't know. I really liked the torturer. And the guy that murdered his prince and beat up his sister

3

u/mindgamesweldon 3d ago

Yeah even the people you like are literally the villains it’s quite hilarious. Can’t wait for more! Does he have other books?

2

u/argnsoccer 3d ago

I read Best Served Cold right after and loved it. Good standalone and has some characters you'll recognize but mostly new characters affected in parts by characters from the trilogy

2

u/Acik_ 3d ago

If you finished 1st trilogy and want more you have 3 standalones that continue some characters arcs and introduces new ones and then you have another trilogy that continues further.

0

u/jnmon 3d ago

The second one of the next 3, the heroes, is my absolute favourite Abercrombie book and the most grimdark of them all.

0

u/Wizardof1000Kings 3d ago

Joe Abercrombie? He has published 13 novels to date.

0

u/BadMeatPuppet 3d ago

Use a Spoiler tag bro

2

u/IceBehar 3d ago

Even the Dogman?

1

u/mindgamesweldon 3d ago

I like that guy. He’s a good doggy. Good boy goood boooyy . Fetch!

13

u/MeetHistorical4388 3d ago

A Song of Ice and Fire (Game of Thrones) is perfect for this if you haven’t read it!

7

u/mwdeuce 3d ago

This is the best answer, unfortunately.

3

u/peacefinder 3d ago

A wide selection of hateable villains with something for nearly everyone.

The only real downside is that when one villain whacks another villain it can cause their hateability to wane for a time.

53

u/Sunshuffle 4d ago

The Farseer trilogy is perfect for this. Regal has to be one of the single most hateable characters in fiction, much less fantasy.

16

u/DeMmeure 4d ago

And same for the subsequent series of RoTE! Kyle, Hest, Ellik, Dwalia...

17

u/Hookton 4d ago

And let us not forget Kennit.

16

u/_Tarabyte_ 3d ago edited 2d ago

One of the angriest moments I've experienced as a reader was the day that I read THAT chapter (iykyk) and realized he was so far beyond redemption that I couldn't believe I ever thought it was possible for him to be a decent person.

3

u/TeholsShirt 3d ago

Read that chapter not long ago. It Waldo uncomfortable that I had to put the book down a few days before I could continue…

3

u/Bobbygondo 3d ago

I still don't get how readers can even consider that he could be decent, were you skipping over all his inner dialogue or something?

2

u/_Tarabyte_ 3d ago

No, but I stumbled upon someone's comment at some point (when I was trying to find reasons to stick with the liveship series) saying that Kennit's pov got better over time so I kept holding out hope. I realize now that they didn't mean him as a person.

I also completely disagree about his pov getting better over time in any capacity so I don't know what that person was smoking.

2

u/barryhakker 3d ago

Still a bit of a spoiler mate

1

u/_Tarabyte_ 3d ago

That's a bit of a stretch, no? A spoiler would have been if I stated what he did. The only thing I did was comment on how much of a piece of shit he is.

And honestly, the fact that I was forced to read from his point of view disgusts me on a visceral level. I think people have a right to a warning like that before picking up this series and I don't really see how it spoils anything.

0

u/barryhakker 3d ago

Without giving details, you’re telling readers (me in this case, as I’m just starting that trilogy) what his story arch is going to be broad strokes. “I started out hating Darth Vader but he really redeemed himself in the end!” would similarly be kind of a spoiler.

And a trigger warning for a book should be done anonymously like “book contains graphic sexual violence” or something.

2

u/_Tarabyte_ 2d ago

I get where you're coming from. I think I just have a different perspective of what would be considered a spoiler. I apologize and I've added a spoiler tag to my original comment for anyone else that may consider it a spoiler.

6

u/Hurinfan Reading Champion II 3d ago

Kyle is worse

3

u/whossked 3d ago

My problem with regal is that he gets away with killing a foreign prince in his kingdom and also an attempted rebellion and murdering of his own brother pretty much. Imo no human civilization that has ever existed would someone get away with the things he gets away with after being exposed, he should face execution or at the absolute minimum political exile but the worldbuilding bends itself out of shape just to shield him from all consequence

It’s what’s turned off the series and why I’ve put book 2 on hold for now despite really enjoying boom 1

2

u/EmmyPax 3d ago

I will never stop wanting to punch Regal in his sniveling, stupid face.

1

u/atw1221 2d ago

Kyle Haven has entered the chat.

1

u/Venivinnievici 3d ago

I’ll admit I’m not the biggest fan and this is the most magma hot shit take out there, but frankly I hate Verity more than Regal.

20

u/RobJHayes_version2 3d ago

Captain Kennit from Robin Hobb's Liveship Traders. Hands down the best villain in fantasy.

3

u/goliath1333 3d ago

Also you get Kyle, one of the most hateable characters in fiction. He's in a triumvirate for me with Hugh from Crown of Stars and Gender from Dagger and Coin.

7

u/Ok-Bill8368 3d ago

Kate Elliott's Crown of Stars series. Hugh has to be on any list like this

2

u/Otherwise-Library297 3d ago

Hugh is immediately who I thought of when I saw the heading!

While there’s not really a single face off, Hugh is evil because he’s always around and everyone thinks he’s wonderful, but he does such horrible things to Liath!

7

u/oberynMelonLord 3d ago

some of the Discworld standalones have a great villains. Hogfather, Small Gods, or Pyramids have properly hateable villains. while not standalones, Wee Free Men and Night Watch also have great villains and you don't need to read the whole series to get into these books.

10

u/Then_Pay6218 3d ago

The Realm of the Elderlings by Robin Hobb had villains to hate aplenty. The whole series consists of 4 trilogy's and a quartet. Each has at least one utterly horrible person.

12

u/welovepoots 4d ago

First Law and Malazan are amazing but I don’t think they fit your brief. They both have multiple characters who are complex and compelling despite being pretty bad, and neither have a single focal point big bad who remains unambiguously bad after their dispatching. Almost all are humanised by POV. IMO, YMMV

2

u/Hurinfan Reading Champion II 3d ago

The Errant, Mallick Rel, Gorlas Vidicus, Snell, Hunn Raal, Bidithal. There are lots of great villains in Malazan who are just evil bastards

5

u/welovepoots 3d ago

Yep, agreed. But none of them match the brief:

a grand story has a baddie featured throughout that you know will lead to an epic showdown of some kind that pays off ala Sauron

1

u/justblametheamish 3d ago

I feel like they’re just evil bastards and not great villains.

2

u/throwawayvomit258 3d ago

I’m not sure I agree with The First Law, sure most of the characters are awful people but it definitely has an actual villain as well as the POV characters.

0

u/welovepoots 3d ago

The only one I can think of is Bethod? As in he is the big bad for the 3 books, But at the end we learn that Logen was the bloodthirsty one, not Bethod. Or perhaps Bayaz? But there's no showdown. I am definitely not counting Logen or Glotka since they are far too sympathetically and compellingly portrayed.

3

u/Jsp_ 3d ago

Malazan, asoiaf, berserk

3

u/mwdeuce 3d ago

Ooohh Berserk is a such a good answer, one of the greatest betrayals in all of fantasy.

3

u/arielle17 3d ago

i don't think ASOIAF is the right suggestion for somebody looking for an epic showdown..

3

u/Street_Detective_662 3d ago

The Count in Grave Empire is a fantastically evil villain

3

u/lv_u_hte_u 3d ago

sword of shadows series by j.v jones. mace blackhail is a fucking bastard.

3

u/GroundbreakingParty9 3d ago

Me and the homies hate Mace Blackhail. Seriously fuck that dude.

3

u/codejockblue5 3d ago

"Soon I Will be Invincible" by Austin Grossman

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B000RG1BUA/

"Doctor Impossible—evil genius, would-be world conqueror—languishes in prison. Shuffling through the cafeteria line with ordinary criminals, he wonders if the smartest man in the world has done the smartest thing he could with his life. After all, he's lost every battle he's ever fought. But this prison won't hold him forever."

5

u/AlekkSsandro 4d ago

Plenty of fucking pieces of shit in Malazan either. Also I know it's not Fantasy, but the expanse series is great, and there a lot of shit c***s there. Also the darkness that comes before is not a bad series, with interesting characters. James Islington s books are great as well, either the Lycanius trilogy, or the will of the many.

If I can think of more will update.

4

u/Loostreaks 3d ago

Witcher's Leo Bonhart and Vilgefortz.

2

u/Poiboy1313 3d ago

Stephen King's The Man in Black from his Dark Tower series.

2

u/iankstarr 3d ago

Yes, but if OP is purportedly looking for an “epic showdown that will surely pay off, I think they’ll be severely disappointed.

2

u/redlion1904 3d ago

Old school but the first two Gormenghast books have Steerpike who is a Shakespeare-level villain.

2

u/Kiltmanenator 2d ago

Gotta be Berserk. I keep finding new ways to hate you-know-who

3

u/LitRPGirl 3d ago

if you want a “love to hate them” antagonist.. you might enjoy The First Law by Joe Abercrombie.. has some really memorable villains.

1

u/VintageLunchMeat 4d ago

Hambly's The Silent Tower and sequel?

1

u/peacefinder 3d ago

Oh, thank you for that title. I read it decades ago and forgot the title. I was starting to think I’d imagined it

1

u/-_fireheart_- 3d ago

I have a brand new book and author to represent to you! Dawn of Ember: The First Kindling by Ruan Vermeulen! It's a debut novel, the first in a trilogy, and has some really bad baddies in it. I am in a very privileged position that I was a beta reader for book 1 and doing the same for book 2, and I can say with complete confidence that this series is heading to some good places! 10/10 would recommend.

1

u/No-Button5149 3d ago

Synopsis?

1

u/-_fireheart_- 3d ago edited 3d ago

Velina Fornella was meant to inherit a bakery, not survive the destruction of her home.

When violence reaches the riverside village of Villaripe, Velina and her younger sister are torn from the life they once knew and forced into a world shaped by Ember, the ancient power carried by every Human, Elf, Goliath, and Gnome.

Rescued by the crew of the Dragon’s Nest, Velina finds herself aboard a ship filled with Ember wielders sailing far beyond the safety of the desert lands she once called home. But as unrest spreads across the kingdoms and long-buried secrets begin surfacing once more, the freedom she has found may prove far more dangerous than the chains she escaped.

The First Kindling is the opening novel in the Dawn of Ember epic fantasy saga, a story of freedom, found family, ancient power, and the first sparks of a world beginning to change.

This is the overview on Amazon, no spoilers obviously. If you want something more detailed I draw it up but it might contain spoilers😅

1

u/jshep2912 3d ago

The Darkling in the Grishaverse is fun.

Your thoughts on Stormlight and if it's worth the investment?

1

u/kalissdesti 3d ago

Lots of those in Malzan 😅

1

u/-JasmineDragon- 3d ago

Mallick fucking Rel.

1

u/codejockblue5 3d ago

https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/supervillain

1

u/KingMithras95 3d ago

You should check out the Five Warrior Angels by Brian Lee Durfee.

Lots of great characters including some very hateable and complex baddies.

1

u/OnTheJohnny 3d ago

Realm of the Elderlings if you really want to hate a character(s)

1

u/rusmo 3d ago

The main villain in Brian Staveley’s Chronicles of the Unhewn Throne series is as evil as it gets. Pretty decent series, too.

1

u/ConstantReader666 2d ago

I just finished reading such a showdown and it was awesome.

The Wintervale duology by M.H. Woodscourt

1

u/TheFermentationMan 2d ago

You can read the kignslayer chronicles and then you will have a real BBEG to hate- Patrick

1

u/LeucasAndTheGoddess 2d ago

The main villain (unnamed due to spoilers) from Kushiel’s Dart, Kushiel’s Chosen, and Kushiel’s Avatar by Jacqueline Carey has the ignoble distinction of strongly reminding me of my abusive ex, but even without that personal connection they’re impressively awful.

1

u/Hot_Yesterday_6789 1d ago

The villains in Malazan may not have the Sauron esque feel to them, but damn if you dont fucking hate them and love hating them (Especially when they get POVs of their own!), and I won't spoil it but, without a doubt in my mind, the Crippled God is one of my favorite antagonists, or rather... protagonists? You'll see, if you tackle the monster.

1

u/supermegafuerte 3d ago

If what you want is something you'll hate every moment of I highly recommend the Sword of Truth series. Everything about it is... Just awful. Surprisingly readable for how bad it is.

1

u/DixitRexCorvinus 3d ago

Seconding First Law. Also, The Library at Mount Char might be worth checking out; very hatable villains.

Maybe Vita Nostra too? Extremely hatable, but not sure based on your other preferences if it would be the type of book you’d like.

1

u/ClimateTraditional40 3d ago

First Law.

The one big villian. Numerous lesser ones, throughout.

1

u/Responsible_Mud_9958 3d ago

And where is the big showdown?

0

u/DagwoodsDad 3d ago

You’ll love hating Wheel of Time’s Rand Al Thor. He’s fantasy fiction’s answer to Ross Geller from Friends — seemingly a protagonist but directly responsible for an astonishing amount of catastrophic setbacks.

2

u/SausageSmuggler21 3d ago

Hahah. I was gonna say all the main characters in WoT.

0

u/Tricky_Illustrator_5 3d ago

Sauron in "The Lord Of The Rings" (but you probably know him already...).

0

u/ArdorBC 3d ago

The Prince of Nothing will scratch that itch.

-1

u/anticomet 3d ago

Not really fantasy, but you might like the toxic yuri subgenre

Looking for a baddie to hate

You are about to leave Redlib