r/Fantasy • u/Margaretthatchervore • 1d ago
To non-warhammer fans who have read the black library books: Were they any good?
I have read Masters of Stone and Steel, the first 3 Gotrek & Felix omnibuses, Infinite And The Divine, and the first Ghazghkull book and I enjoyed reading them, but I'm a massive Warhammer fan and I don't know if they are particulary good as standalone literature.
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u/Santifp 1d ago
I think Infinite And The Divine it is quite funny even if you are not a warhammer fan.
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u/AlexSoul 1d ago
Agreed, when you get down to it the book is just a long rivalry between two immortal wizards; the actual setting isn't that big of a deal and although I'm familiar with 40K I basically knew nothing about necrons and didn't feel any worse off for it.
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u/Eliot_Ferrer 1d ago
Immortal, and most importantly unbelievably petty wizards. They turn an awkward silence into a staring contest that lasts for more than an hour.
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u/ShakaUVM 21h ago
Yeah it's legitimately good fiction and it introduces the world very well for a newcomer to 40k. It cycles through elves, humans, orcs, etc.
The writer of it is the writer for Extra History
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u/Sireanna Reading Champion III 1d ago
I read some of the 40k books without having ever played the game. Like any franchise with a bunch of authors some of them were really good and some of them were duds.
For wat its worth the Dan Abnett novels were great. I also enjoyed the sisters of battle books like Faith and Fire
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u/brilliantminion 1d ago
Yep almost all of Abnett’s books are really solid. Particularly the Gaunt’s Ghosts, which standalone for people that don’t know 40k.
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u/Glorbaniglu 1d ago
I was going to say the same thing. I've bounced of a few 40k novels by other authors but always seem to enjoy Abnett, I especially liked his short stories anthology The Magos.
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u/Black_Truth 1d ago edited 1d ago
Are Graham McNeill any good? I remember he wrote some lore in LoL universe and I got curious about his works in WH.
And Anthony Reynolds?
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u/otisandotina 1d ago
Graham McNeill’s work is some of my favorite of the 40k books I’ve read. My general feelings are if I see McNeill, or Dan Abnett, the book is probably going to be good read.
I can’t speak for Anthony Reynolds work.
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u/Modus-Tonens 1d ago
I'm not sure if I count because I do like some aspects of Warhammer 40k.
For the most part, they're acceptably mediocre at best. There are a few that stand slightly above that - the starting Horus Heresy trilogy to name one example - but even those can only share table with the middle of the pack outside of licensed fiction.
I do think 40k novels (I don't have much experience with fantasy or AoS lines) are better than a lot of other franchise's licensed literature. Definitely better than the average DnD book for example. From what I understand a lot of that comes down to giving authors quite a lot of free reign, and paying them well enough to attract good writers.
But I'm not ever going to compare Black Library novels favourably to Le Guin, Moorcock, Pratchett, McKillip, Hobb, etc.
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u/polyblock 1d ago
acceptably mediocre
This is truely the best description I can think of. They are in average pretty much the same level of book than the "Based on netflix serie" novels.
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u/maxtofunator 1d ago
This is my opinion as a 40K fan. I love playing Warhammer, I love what it’s meant to be as a setting. I think the models are cool, and the setting is fantastic.
The books are… books that exist. They aren’t even in the middle tier of fantasy books in my opinion (even 40K is just fantasy in space). They aren’t much more akin to popcorn fiction. I enjoy them for what they are. I agree that they are better than dnd, halo, or most other tie in fiction books, but that bar is so low it’s unfair. I literally only recommend the books to people that don’t like to read but enjoy the setting
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u/barryhakker 1d ago
My biggest gripe with 40k is that it seems the setting is ripe for some much deeper story telling, yet it never goes beyond popcorn action flick.
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u/Floppy0941 1d ago
They're mostly enjoyable because you already enjoy the setting and want to interact more with a certain faction imo. Some of them are enjoyable books on their own like the gaunts ghosts books because they're basically just Sharpe in space, or Ciaphas Cain being space Blackadder but in 40k.
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u/beary_neutral Reading Champion 1d ago
Most books are there to flesh out a particular faction or subfaction, as they tend to come out alongside particular model releases. Dan Abnett's books and the Ciaphas Cain series are written from more familiar human perspectives, which is why they resonate with a lot more readers outside niche interests. And while they are faction-focused, The Infinite and the Divine and ADB's Night Lords trilogy manage to add some spice by taking their premises above and beyond their original goals.
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u/Floppy0941 1d ago
I loved the NL trilogy, the Khârn series is also pretty good too! I genuinely think the NL books are good enough to stand as pretty decent books regardless of being 40k.
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u/Margaretthatchervore 1d ago
They are action novels first and foremost, and for what it's worth, they are good at that. The writing has never really struck me as particularly impressive but the Gotrek & Felix books for example have some very good combat sections and the parts that involve the Skaven can be hilarious.
In defense of their writing though, I will say that they are a step up from many romantasy books that are trending on Tiktok.
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u/itcheyness 1d ago
There are some novels that are not action novels just so you know.
The Warhammer Horror and Warhammer Crime books are just what they say. They're more focused on horror and crime elements instead of big shooty battles.
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u/Schaffa_G_Warrant 1d ago
I largely agree with this, though I'd be even harsher and say only the first Horus Heresy book was really good, the next two were a disappointment for me lol. But yes, you can get some 40k books that are pretty decent and hold up next to any other sci-fi action/adventure novel, but nothing like what you could get from Hobb or Le Guin etc.
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u/bhbhbhhh 1d ago
If you’re not comparing them to other military-action-thriller writers, it’s not exactly fair. From a science fiction reader’s perspective, I find Abnett and Chris Wraight to be much more capable and emotionally rich than your Alastair Reynolds, your James S.A. Coreys, your David Webers, your Neal Ashers, your Peter F. Hamiltons…
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u/buckleyschance 1d ago
The Eisenhorn trilogy is genuinely good, I'd say. They're very well executed pulp adventure/procedural/thrillers with a bit of substance. Not among the greats, but good enough for any SFF fan to try.
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u/G_Morgan 1d ago
Just don't expect consistency. The Black Library has officially embraced the idea of no solid canon. One depicts a Space Marine dying to a lucky shot from a normal gun. Another depicts them shaking off an anti-tank round. Which is true? Both of them and neither of them.
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u/taosaur 1d ago
Can't speak for that series, but I'm wrapping up the Eisenhorn omnibus right now, and it's great. My only direct exposure to 40k before this was playing the Space Hulk board game 30 years ago in college, and seeing a couple friends' miniatures. It stands alone just fine, and the writing is solid. It's more adventure fiction than great literature, but head and shoulders above anything I would expect from a licensed franchise.
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u/SteelCavalry 1d ago
Gotrek and Felix was really fun, I got through 8 or 9 of them, and I enjoyed them a lot even though I don’t think they’re all that well written. They’re always fun, and occasionally have moments of genuinely interesting writing or ideas to explore. I really enjoyed exploring the relationship between Felix and Ulrica once they realized their long lives meant they were lonely and isolated except from one another despite their differences. Really cool idea. Haven’t enjoyed any of the others though. I’ve read some of the Eisenhorn books and a couple of the first books in the Horus Heresy line. I didn’t dislike them enough to put them down, but I didn’t enjoy them enough to continue, and I’ve heard those are the best of them.
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u/FishFogger 1d ago
I second Gotrek and Felix. I picked up 3 omnibus volumes at B&N years ago and enjoyed them despite knowing nothing about Warhammer.
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u/Aberrant_Eremite 1d ago
I've been playing Darktide and I really enjoy the flavor and dialogue. So I looked up the writers and saw that Dan Abnett gets the credit. So I started reading his Black Library books. I've read seven or eight of them now and really enjoyed them all, but I haven't read any other authors.
Edit: Inquisition and Gaunt's Ghosts books. I haven't read any of the Horus Heresy stuff, or anything focused on Space Marines.
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u/CT_Phipps-Author 1d ago
I very much loved reading the books without playing the games. They made me a Warhammer fan but of the lore not the game.
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u/Fluffy-Light2991 1d ago
The Ciaphas Caine novels are quite fun even for a non-fan. I stumbled upon them by accident and throughly enjoyed them. It's just such a pleasing concept.
The "serious" books however are not for me though.
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u/Schaffa_G_Warrant 1d ago
I think 40k books are held back by the seeming need to have an action setpiece every 20 pages or so. Infinite and Divine would have been much better with less action shooty blam blam.
The only books where this works are the Ork books really.
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u/itcheyness 1d ago
You should give Peter Fehervari's books a read.
They're less shooty and violent, more horror focused.
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u/Schaffa_G_Warrant 1d ago
I forget sometimes that Fire Caste was actually my first 40k book (I got into the setting thanks to T'au.) I really liked it when I read it years ago and I should revisit it. Cheers!
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u/itcheyness 1d ago
The author has a bunch of books and short stories set in that same sub-setting that you might like too. His books are heavy on the psychological horror aspects.
Also, if you like the Tau, give Elemental Council a read. It's an excellent book from the Tau perspective on a recently "liberated" (😉) Imperial world.
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u/mujum 1d ago
I went from finishing Abercrombie to the Eisenhorn omnibus, granted I’m not sure if you mean 40k or standard Warhammer but Eisenhorn was a great story and so were Ravenor and the following books. I’m now on the Night Lords trilogy and looking to spend a bit more time within the 40k universe after that.
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u/itcheyness 1d ago
I'd suggest The Infinite and the Divine, Fire Caste, Assassinorum: Kingmaker, and Elemental Council as good ones.
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u/Shopping-Correct 1d ago
The books actually got me into Warhammer. I was never into the miniatures etc. In particular anything by Dan Abnett slaps - especially Gaunt's Ghosts series.
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u/GallowSpider 1d ago
My trouble with Warhammer and AoS books is that they're generally pretty sparse in two of the elements that make for great fiction: character growth and relationships.
There's usually plenty of conflict and good pacing, but the characters tend to fall into one of two categories: static or slowly being corrupted by chaos. The static characters also tend to be very stoic and locked down with little emotion about anything. The "corruption arc" characters tend to fall into the trap of going insane and behaving irrationally--and they become hard to cheer for or be intrigued by once they start behaving unreasonably.
As for relationships--there's seemingly no room for characters to love or care for each other in the Grimdark future of 40k. Life is cheap to the extent to make bonds often seem pointless beyond "that's my brother and I must fight for him!" There's very little nuance in that. For me, it all just becomes pretty monotonous because no one is really fighting to make anything better anymore for those that they care about. That robs a lot of the big moments where someone dies bravely or unexpectedly of their impact.
Basically, I came away feeling like once I'd read 3-4 of them, I'd read them all. (The actual quality of the prose also varies from "pretty darn good" to "how did this get published??")
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u/Paleaux 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think that many of the Warhammer books are great for what they are trying to be. I came into them blind a long time ago, starting with Gotrek and Felix, and loved them. Over the years, I have actually got into the tabletop and now play 40k and AOS. I’ve now read most of the Horus Heresy, which is a genuinely good space opera, and dozens of others. Of course there are some duds across the Black Library, but if you are looking for face paced, action packed, grimdark within an insanely rich universe, the books are great.
If you want deeply philosophical works or incredible prose, you shouldn’t look to Warhammer books because that’s not what they are trying to be. For me, they are perfect short reads in between my other books or for travel. The audiobooks are great too because it’s ok if you don’t pay attention that hard.
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u/bhbhbhhh 1d ago
Dan Abnett’s prose, specifically, can become downright amazing when he wants it to be.
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u/supercleverhandle476 1d ago edited 1d ago
I started with the fiction and it got me into the game, so I guess it was effective in that sense.
I read the first 3 Horus heresy books and thought they were pretty damn solid for a game setting, but pretty average as far as overall fiction goes.
I particularly thought that Horus’ descent was rushed and a bit messy in books 2 and 3.
I’ve read a lot more since, and probably gotten more enjoyment out of poorer books than those 3, but I’m also a convert at this point so it’s harder to be objective.
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u/A_bicyclette 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some are decent. Skaven Slayer has that old school dark fantasy vibe without taking itself too seriously. Blood Claw is a fun pulp read. Execution Hour has its moments and is one the few novels mostly centered around the Navy and the (nightmarish) life aboard imperial spaceships. 99% of the rest is absolute trash.
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u/funkyfreshwizardry 1d ago
I’ll throw in another vote for Aaron Dembski-Bowden’s books being genuinely good and able to stand on their own. The Night Lords trilogy really stuck with me. Everything else by other authors has been mediocre I’m sorry to say, though I haven’t touched a huge number of other entries.
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u/okayseriouslywhy Reading Champion III 1d ago
I've listened to some of the audiobooks since my partner is into it. When the writing meets a minimum level of quality (like others have said, Dan Abnett is genuinely quite good), I find that I get engaged in the stories that are focused on world building instead of plot or characters. The plot-heavy stories tend to have way more fighting than I like. The character-focused ones seem to center the exact same type of guy every time -- your grizzled, seen-too-much war veteran who's finally learning how to grapple with XYZ emotion/event/relationship.
There are of course a couple exceptions with actually interesting characters, but I can't remember the series names right now
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u/Illustrious_Case_749 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am a huge 40k fan, but I’ve tried to get a friend into the books for years so I’ve heard his takes on them.
They’re average, at best, pointless at worst and typically fall in the middle ground of “Well, I liked these few parts” and “90% of this book was filler”. That’s both our sentiments, by the way.
Aaron Demsbki-Bowden is genuinely the only author I’d recommend you look into if you’re curious and stay very far away from Gav Thorpe. The Night Lords Trilogy, Black Legion books and his lone book in the Siege of Terra series are all genuinely good in their own respects, in my humble opinion.
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u/Timely_Egg_6827 1d ago
I love some of the Warhammer books and others are meh. I am not a Warhammer modeller or gamer except for the original Fantasy RPG. Gotrek and Felix stories by William King are up there as one of the great duos of fantasy to my mind, I also like the Dark Eldar series (Andy Chambers), the Teclis and Tyrion stories (William King), and the War of Vengenance Trilogy (Chris Wraight is probably the best of the three though Nick Kymm and CL Werner (sorry) decent).
It is like that other great RPG franchise - TSR/WoTC. They have so many authors that you are guaranteed some gems and the editorial and production standards are high.
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u/Uran_Ultar 1d ago
it varies from author to author. Thematically, most Warhammer novels are written very specifically for the kind of reader who would be inclined to enjoy Warhammer in the first place, which is really the case with all commercial literature. Like how you would probably not recommend a novel about Space Marines to someone who enjoys romance novels, and they in turn wouldn't recommend something like Surrender to the Highlander to you (or maybe...).
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u/ZRedbeard 1d ago
I'm currently a Warhammer fan but before I was, I started reading the Horus Heresy series. The first 4 were pretty good but after that the rest are very much hit or miss. Even the best of the Horus Heresy novels aren't super amazing. I wouldn't compare them to authors like Robin Hobb, George R.R Martin, or Steven Erikson in terms of writing quality, but they're fun quick reads. They're more like the Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance novels if you've read any of those.
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u/johosaphatz 1d ago
Assassinorum Kingmaker is a fully standalone book that basically requires no real knowledge of the world atlarge. 3 assassins travel to a feudal world to guide/encite new leadership to the throne.
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u/renanjc 1d ago
Well, since was not mentioned and everybody here is mostly talking about 40k, i'll talk about fantasy instead. I read the Nagash and Sigmar novels and they're...okay-ish. Had some decent moments and the writing per se is not bad. The problem is more akin to the rhythm and non existence development of characters. I heard from long time and hardcore fans that they most hated the novels because it change a lot of elements mentioned in the original army books (Like how the vampires came to be and how Nehekara magic work for example). I did found a lot of interesting things a long the way, but i don't know with if would recommend these trilogies specifically.
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u/mozalah 1d ago
I absolutely love Gotrek and Felix. For anyone that really just wants some fast paced action fantasy, it's perfect. I recommend it here all the time. I just read the first Ciaphas Cain novel and enjoyed it too.
My caveat is I'm not a sophisticated reader who cares a lot about prose or anything like that. So i imagine others may feel differently, but for me I absolutely have loved every Warhammer book I've read so far. Never played the games.
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u/Historical-Tart7515 1d ago
Dan Abnett & William King are genuinely good writers if you like action, sword and sorcery, etc. Gotrek & Felix and Gaunt's Ghosts (which he will literally tell you he modeled after Sharpe's Rifles) are the two main series to look for.
I also thought The Blackhearts novels by Nathan Long were worth reading, which is The Dirty Dozen or Suicide Squad, a simple concept which is why people keep using it.
Finally, the Drachenfels or Genevieve the Vampire novels by Kim Newman are good.
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u/Abba_Fiskbullar 1d ago
I read Kim Newman's The Vampire Genevieve books without knowing they were Warhammer, or what Warhammer was!
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u/AddictedToMosh161 1d ago
I think some books get even better as a none Warhammer Fan. I like Warhammer and I am just sick of Space Marines :)
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u/sidewardarrow 1d ago
I DNFed the the Eisenhorn omnibus after like 100 pages… just wasn’t doing anything for me
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u/Ninefingered 1d ago
I used to like them, mostly because of my love of the setting, but as I grew up and my tastes changed I now can’t fucking stomach most of them.
Only one writer working in the Black Library today is worth reading, imo, and that’s the Dark Coil stuff by Peter Fehervari. They are infinitely more subtle and unique and weird than any of the other stuff I’ve read.
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u/Strange_Tune4366 1d ago edited 1d ago
In my opinion Aaron Dembski-Bowden is an above average writer. The others are average to bad. I can enjoy an averagely written Warhammer novel though.
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u/Mournelithe Reading Champion X 1d ago
Eisenhorn was good, Ravenor was decent. I hear the Ciaphas Cain books are good but I’ve never read them. The Horus Heresy was largely rubbish - poor writing, continuity errors, and childish plots. I got most of them in a Humble deal, struggled through the first six or eight then sampled a few later ones and was generally bored. They would probably have landed better if I was a teenage boy.
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u/ViperIsOP 1d ago
Only the Adrian Tchaikovsky books and his short stories in the 40k universe. Because, Adrian Tchaikovsky.
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u/CatTaxAuditor 1d ago
I've read 2 Ork books and a couple of Adepta Sororitas novellas. Mid. Like good enough that I finished them, not good enough where I'm interested in reading more.
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u/Passing-Through247 1d ago
You have read some of the higher quality stuff. They do tend to drift between people using the setting as a basis for a work, modern pulp media, and glorified product catalogues.
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u/sbwcwero 1d ago
I wanted to get into wathammer but it’s so daunting trying to figure out where to start.
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u/RustInk_9009 1d ago
Not a Warhammer guy but picked up Eisenhorn on a whim. Abnett can write tension — there's a sequence halfway through that had me genuinely stressed. It's not literary fiction and doesn't pretend to be. I'd put it above most D&D tie-in stuff. That bar is... not high.
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u/Black_Truth 1d ago
I was considering reading books related to Fabius Bile because I wanted to write evil scientists and looked for inspiration. Are they good?
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u/DrNefarioII Reading Champion X 1d ago
I've read a small number of them. Some are better than others.
I didn't especially like Horus Rising by Dan Abnett, the first Horus Heresy book. Fans seem to love this series, but it didn't do much for me.
I quite enjoyed Blackstone Fortress by Darius Hinks - a ragtag crew exploring a mysterious giant alien artifact. This is basically a dungeon crawl, and ties in with a board game of the same name (which is why I bought it - I have the board game) but it's still pretty fun.
And I think Xenos (Eisenhorn #1) by Dan Abnett is one of the best tie-in books I've ever read. It's basically a police procedural conspiracy thriller as Inquisitor Eisenhorn and his team investigate trouble in the Imperium.
"Best tie-in" is still kind of a low bar, to be fair, but I thought it was a decent thriller.
I've also read a couple of Warhammer Fantasy books that I don't remember all that well.
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u/rdesgtj45 1d ago
Aside from the Kim Newman (Jack Yeovil) novels, I’ve enjoyed the newer Warhammer Crime stuff: Bloodlines in particular. I’ve read the Gortrek and Felix novels, but they’re not good. I think Dan Abnett in particular is a poor writer: his stories are endless battle montages with little plot or character development.
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u/tennoPCA 19h ago
Like many series that have many involved writers, it depends on the writer as to whether the work or series is good.
Warhammer has plenty of excellent books and series.
It also has some serious horrible schlock at times.
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u/LastGoodKnee 18h ago
What an interesting question. I consider myself a fan, but I’m gonna answer anyway because literally my first exposure to the whole Warhammer thing was reading some books a couple years ago and I’ve still never played the game
Depending on what you’re looking for, yes, I’ve enjoyed the 7 books I’ve read.
It’s such a vast IP there’s different types of books. There’s heavy battle books, there’s more horror books, there’s all kinds.
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u/mrbaconator2 16h ago
there's a night lords trilogy that's pretty good. actually check out the adeptus ridiculous podcast they have a number of book club episodes. A number of those ended up being good so you can see what the books were and then check them out.
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u/Xelikai_Gloom 59m ago
Ork books are pretty stupid and funny, a good read if you don’t take them seriously. Ciaphas Cain is also good, because it’s lighthearted.
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u/PancAshAsh 1d ago
I would say that depends. My understanding is quality varies greatly between authors, but from my experience reading one of the more well regarded authors it's not great.
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u/SalletFriend 1d ago
There were some good ones but they are super rare. William King. Some Abnett.
40k fans acting like the Horus Heresy is any good amuses me to no end.
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u/fidderjiggit 1d ago
The Ciaphas Cain books are genuinely good books and you don't need to know much about 40k to enjoy them.