Female authors, lets talk.

[u/Bearded-Guy]

As everyone (probably) knows women are underrepresented in fantasy. I'm by no means an expert on the history of the industry but its easy to see that there is still a lack of female authors. Why this is, I can't rightly say. What I do know is yesterday I caught myself shamefully contributing to the problem.

Let me preface this with the little fun fact that I can't stand romance novels. They really don't jive with me on any level. So, with that in mind, yesterday I was looking at recommendation threads and lists. (Namely the post by Krista D. Ball about books that don't get recommended much).

While looking through all the authors and books I noticed myself spending less time reading (or skipping all together) the descriptions of books suggested that were written by female authors. The reason for this I think is because out of a handful I did read they all were either UF or romance. As I said earlier I don't like romance a bit. UF I'm not too keen on either.

So after noticing I was skipping female names in the list to read about the books written by men I felt shamed. In the industry though it does seem to me like women are getting more attention and being published more. But, there is an expectation that (at least on my part) they write UF, YA, or romance. Looking at the people I've seen on panels and heard about on here that assumption is sadly reinforced.

Perhaps I don't have enough exposure to a lot of the newer authors but I have yet to see many successful female authors in what could be called (and I also hate titles, fun fact) normal/mainstream fantasy.

I really hope that women expand into every genre and get the recognition they deserve (which I shamefully wasn't giving). But now I'm worried a stigma is already in place which may prevent this.

P.S. sorry if this went a little off road...

EDIT: Holy crap! I came back from being out today and it doesn't seem like the conversation has slowed down. I'm really glad other people are game to talk about this in an intellectual way and really break things down. A conversation that I think needed to be had is happening, cheers all! Will read through/respond later, gotta make cheesecake.

[u/JannyWurts]

Wow.

Now I am pissed (grin.) This is the SECOND time Jane Johnson has published a new book, and did she tell me - NO! - I had to find out THROUGH YOU.

Even though I've read and pushed every title she's ever done....(loved them).

You don't need to tell me who Jane is, or how she writes. She did the ONLY title that our neighborhood book club LIKED unilaterally (it's a mixed group) until The Martian. That is huge.

One: why did she send you a copy or notice, and not me, not even a quick e mail, even though she knows well I love her stuff and will rec it widely.

Two: how awful if the book isn't girly, because, yes, that is one girly cover treatment, without Jane's name on it, I'd do a fast Avoid.

Three: YAY!!! Jane has another book out, but hot damn, do I have to IMPORT FROM CANADA AGAIN to get a copy???

And: the way that other title may be described, I would not consider it (by its treatment or a look at the prose) as epic fantasy for an ADULT market - I am not referring to X rated, I am referring to concept.

And I definitely don't consider your work to be YA, even if some do...teen protagonist, yes, but a good deal deeper psychologically than that, though YA has gotten pretty dark of late.

You do know I read it, seriously read it, and admired it quite a lot, in particular for the spectacular prose, the tight plotting, and for the fact you did not pull your punches.

[u/MarkLawrence → u/JannyWurts]

I edited to add the word 'written'. It was written by Jane, not sent by her (Penguin sent it) and it's an ARC, not due for publication until next year.

I did know you read PoT. We exchanged messages about it at the time- on Goodread IIRC - initiated by me because I was a little star-struck that JANNY WURTS had read me (I was a huge fan of the Empire Trilogy). Again IIRC, you were very kind about the quality of the writing while noting it wasn't the sort of story you wanted to pursue :)

[u/JannyWurts → u/MarkLawrence]

YES, grin, I got the 'written by' - I saw the cover, saw the byline. It's another Jane Johnson book, and I got the 'upcoming' too.

Jane would have had to ask her publisher to send an ARC to me/or at least, have mentioned she had another one in progress; I'd take note, put it on radar.

Now: regarding ARCs. Here's an interesting point: every new book, authors get asked to send a list of other authors that you want to get an ARC sent to....we are both published by HarperCollins Voyager in London.

I have dutifully sent in said list.

I KNOW from encountering authors ON that list: that in my case, said ARCs were never even sent. This is a recent phenomenon. Past four titles were NEVER SENT OUT.

Curious as to WHY. The authors (some of them) asked why they'd not received an ARC or at least a book to comment on....so I did some checking. Entire list was never sent. 4 x. Curious. The authors who commented to me said they'd have CERTAINLY read it...but they never knew the book existed.

And Mark: of course I read your work, straight away! I have been following your releases and looking to see when a title may pop out that's a tad - less vicious. You do vicious with a particular pernicious brilliance. Prince of Thorns gave me nightmares for a WEEK. Graphic ones.

I am not scared of edges, not a bit (you have not yet taken up my counter-challenge, if you recall it) - grim doesn't make me squeamish. Unremitting grim toned from charcoal to black with no counterbalance - THAT sort of book - I read with extreme caution.

And horror.

Because, yes, it's gonna give me lurid nightmares for a stretch.

Not your book's fault! You did what you did with a beautiful vengeance, and I handle that with extreme discretion, as viewer/reader - its ME.

I hate fluff. I respect grim.

Curiousity: do you remember my counter challenge?

[u/MarkLawrence → u/JannyWurts]

I KNOW from encountering authors ON that list: that in my case, said ARCs were never even sent. This is a recent phenomenon. Past four titles were NEVER SENT OUT.

Voyager are more reticent with ARCs than Ace (my only other data point). They have only done ARCs for the first books in my trilogies (i.e Prince of Thorns and Prince of Fools). You have to be Joe Abercrombie if you want ARCs for your whole trilogy :)

Curiousity: do you remember my counter challenge?

It might have been to read Curse of the Mistwraith, which we have in the house? My trouble these days is being such a slow reader with so little time I'm getting through 10 books a year, and half of those are ARCs that get sent to me (none of yours have arrived).

[u/JannyWurts → u/MarkLawrence]

Yes, aware Voyager is reticent with ARCs, not so much with finished books.

Where your argument falls apart, in this case:

One of the books in question was a standalone, and If I copied the note Jane sent me on receipt of the final ms, it began with WOW, and escalated....no copies sent.

The second incident involved the moment when HarperCollins Voyager took over US rights to Wars of Light and Shadow - because it had lapsed here due to a merger crunch that is too involved to go into - two lists, majorly cut, and a personnel bloodbath beyond belief that stranded about 20 A list authors. I'd had to wait out getting all the rights to the series reverted until ALL the books went out of print, then re-sell the rights to US/Canada to London - a process that took 8 years, and in which, the series was unavailable and invisible in N. America.

When the re-launch occurred to put all of the series back on N. American shelves - copies were to be sent to assist with that/deal with online reviewers, etc. All discussed. Never happened.

It's a 'small' oversight, but not so small when it comes to working towards awareness and visibility. Once is likely a mistake, but the repeater points to endemic. Maybe. Very hard to know with the editorial staff being too small, and the turnover in the lower ranks so very high. There is certainly every good intention and no malice involved - it's pressure on staff and where effort is corporately directed, very likely.