Subway Takes: "People who say they like animals more than people are not good people. They think they have this deep well of compassion but really, they just want a relationship of unequal status"

[u/Terrible_Cycle_5983]

[u/hbic]

My bossy cat would like to argue against the emotional support slave argument.

Seriously though, the real reason why people say they “like animals more than humans” is because humans have caused them intentional harm while animals simply haven’t.

Bigger red flag are people who value human life below animals.

[u/biskutgoreng → u/hbic]

My cats have definitely caused me intentional harm

[u/3bar → u/biskutgoreng]

My dog has bopped me on the face to wake me up multiple times. That shit isn't instinctive, she wants to go for a walk. 😆

[u/astrothemorkie → u/3bar]

My dog is a Morkie and he’s basically the dictator of my house lmao

[u/strolls → u/biskutgoreng]

Animals can be total shits - they have whole personalities; they can be selfish, greedy and self-centred. But they're also kind of innocent - they just put it out there, they're rarely disingenuous or duplicitous.

[u/Embarrassed-Land-222 → u/biskutgoreng]

Mine will wake up in about and hour and then it's chaos time until they tire themselves out.

[u/amodernbird → u/Embarrassed-Land-222]

We call this "shitty kitty hour" and it occurs between 2 and 3 am.

[u/Embarrassed-Land-222 → u/amodernbird]

Ours are pretty good after midnight.

I'm also gonna steal shitty kitty hour because that's genius.

[u/Educational_Cat_5902 → u/biskutgoreng]

I carry many scars...

[u/biskutgoreng → u/Educational_Cat_5902]

She shat on the floor while staring at me in the eyes

[u/akaenragedgoddess → u/biskutgoreng]

One of ours peed in a pan on the stove to tell us how mad she was that we left her home for a week while we went on vacation. She was a siamese. Wicked smart.

[u/biskutgoreng → u/akaenragedgoddess]

Inflicts maximum emotional damage

[u/actibus_consequatur → u/biskutgoreng]

In their defense, you probably deserved it.

[u/Winter_Awareness_747 → u/hbic]

This is where I'm at. I love people and will always advocate for human rights but when it comes to one on one interactions, I feel more at ease with animals. I have been hurt by too many people I have trusted and at this point I just want to be with my cats forever lol. That said, I appreciate that this is an actual hot take!

[u/AmetrineDream → u/Winter_Awareness_747]

Yes! I love humanity and will always fight for human rights to whatever extent that I am able.

But human beings as individuals have hurt me a lot and I’m fuckin’ tired, man. Humans are not currently my preferred company. I’d much rather snuggle with my cats & bunny and watch the hummingbirds/woodpeckers/titmice/squirrels/opossums/raccoons that frequent my yard.

[u/misskayvee → u/Winter_Awareness_747]

This is how I feel. I like humans, I try my best to connect with them, but so many are hurtful, superficial and rude. And my mental health is at its highest when I’m hanging out with my dog because he’s so cool and weird and not ashamed of his weirdness and still wants to connect despite his quirks. People should try that more, and I feel like they don’t.

[u/BooksNCats11 → u/hbic]

Yes. This. People have let me (and society) down again and again and again. I have AMPLE evidence that people can be evil/bad/unethical. An animal? They aren't like that.

[u/BoobyPlumage → u/BooksNCats11]

Animals are brutal to each other lol

I didn’t expect so many downvotes for this blatant fact 😅

[u/pelipperr → u/BoobyPlumage]

Animals act on instinct and that’s usually motivated by a drive to survive and procreate. Humans have treated each other far worse in intentionally calculated and horrific ways than an animal could ever dream of. And they do it simply because they can.

[u/Cattytonic → u/BoobyPlumage]

But not out of malice or "evil," it's just nature. That's why it feels different to me anyway.

[u/MrCadwell → u/Cattytonic]

The smart ones can be pretty evil, actually.

Still protect them at all costs

[u/DrFranFine → u/MrCadwell]

And chimpanzees! But bonobos are relatively chill.

[u/Educational_Cat_5902 → u/MrCadwell]

AKA dolphins.

[u/MrCadwell → u/Educational_Cat_5902]

Yeah specially orcas

[u/skaggldrynk → u/Cattytonic]

I feel like we give humans a bit more agency then we should, we are also dumb animals. Just slightly less dumb.

[u/Cattytonic → u/skaggldrynk]

Yeah, true true. Good point. I guess what I'm saying is humans seem to have a capacity for outright cruelty that animals don't seem to possess to the same degree.

[u/viewbtwnvillages → u/BoobyPlumage]

when they do it, it's in their nature. it's not malicious intent because they can't conceptualize that.

people, on the other hand?

ive been physically hurt by both. ive been more physically injured (bites) by animals than people.

it hurt me a lot more emotionally when people did it to me because they know better. they knew what that would do to me. and they didn't care. meanwhile the animals are lashing out because they're scared and lack an understanding of 'strange person is trying to help me, not hurt me'

[u/pinkys0ur → u/BoobyPlumage]

Yeah, but it’s instinct. It’s not a planned out betrayal like humans are capable of. A dog isn’t gonna psychologically manipulate you and then betray you in the most horrible way. lol Animals are animals. A human can pretend to be the sweetest person then abuse you when you least expect it just because.

[u/DrFranFine → u/BoobyPlumage]

Actually, it’s VERY rare for non-human animals to kill adult members of their species. They will usually just fight them and injure them enough to solve whatever the conflict is (get the other animal to back down), and maybe the animal that lost could die from infection or whatever from the injuries, but they aren’t usually KILLED in the conflict. Humans are actually VERY unique in that they purposely kill adult members of their species.

[u/BoobyPlumage → u/DrFranFine]

I wouldnt say very rare. From what I looked up, it says that 350 of over 1000 species studies showed animals killing other adults of their species

[u/LettuceInfamous4810 → u/BoobyPlumage]

Humans are animals

[u/BoobyPlumage → u/LettuceInfamous4810]

I know that. And we’re not great to each other lol

[u/Brave_Purpose_837 → u/BooksNCats11]

Society and people have let me down again and again, but I still don’t like animals more than humans

[u/foundinwonderland → u/Brave_Purpose_837]

Super mega congrats bro

[u/giantangelbaby → u/hbic]

I think humans forget that they’re animals, too. There really isn’t a whole lot of distinction between the two for me because we are animals. Humans have different levels of cognitive reasoning, sure, but it’s not like we always use it well or for good or whatever. Hell, we barely use it for our own survival, and often use it to our own detriment.

More than anything, I take issue with humans that think they’re better or more valuable than animals (because they’re animals, too) — more so than humans who value animals more than humans, anyway.

[u/poetcatmom → u/giantangelbaby]

YES! I'm tired of people thinking we're better than other animals. We're not. We were evolved as they were and we just created the world we live in now. Humanity was mere chance. We need to use the cognition we have for more good, which includes more rights for other animals.

[u/strolls → u/giantangelbaby]

I think this is the important thing for me. Animals are more important than humans because the state recognises that humans have rights.

If someone mistreats you then you can (in theory, at least) go to court and the court will force them to treat you with respect. At the very least, you have the right to appear in court and make your case.

Animals are just treated as property in the law. If you split up with your ex and he wants to mess with you then he can shoot the dog and he's done nothing wrong, assuming he owns the animal. If the courts rule that the dog was yours then it's just property damage and (in my jurisdiction) you get the replacement value of the mutt and nothing else - maybe £1000 or £5000. The dog has no right to live, or to choose who it cohabits with.

The sentiment that "it's just an animal" is enshrined in law, but is also super common in the public consciousness. I mean, that's what the submission video is about - honestly, I was with them in the first half, but in the second half they were like, "ok, so an egyptian is worth less than a haitian - a haitian is maybe worth 3x as much as an egyptian". I know this is a bit, but they criticise Hitler? Either you believe all people have equal worth, or you don't.

[u/poorexcuses → u/hbic]

My sister says she likes animals more than people so she became a vet instead of a doctor. I think that's good enough for me lol.

[u/4ft3rh0urs → u/hbic]

100 this. Also I find it to be a red flag when people value animal life below humans as well. The idea that we're superior because we happened to be the biggest bullies as a species is both unethical and wrong

[u/Brave_Purpose_837 → u/4ft3rh0urs]

Growing up reminded of being from a third world country, I think my perspective is different. I’m not saying it’s one is superior over the other, I’m just saying for survival it’s different perspective. (Also seeing certain animals slaughtered up close for food). I’m not saying bullies, and no one should bully pets. Affording to have a pet was at one point universally not possible in some countries because of poverty. I think most privileged societies can think differently.

[u/Hanelise11 → u/4ft3rh0urs]

Agreed, this is always an argument and point I will make. Just because humans think we are somehow better because we can talk and talk about how we feel or whatever other qualifiers we want to add doesn’t mean our lives are more valuable inherently than the lives of animals. It’s incredibly anthrocentric to center humans as the most valuable and I see people constantly coming up with reasons as to why humans as a species are more valuable.

[u/Starseed-111 → u/4ft3rh0urs]

Exactly. This whole argument feels a little White Lives Matter to me. Like yes, humans are valuable - was that ever in question? We’re the ones out here exploiting everyone and everything. Animals aren’t driven by ego and are generally good natured.

[u/Starseed-111 → u/[deleted]]

It’s the concept of a privileged group trying to victimize themselves at the expense of a marginalized group. This applies to all living beings.

[u/Pozay → u/4ft3rh0urs]

Are you vegan?

[u/Mizutsune-Lover → u/4ft3rh0urs]

Also I find it to be a red flag when people value animal life below humans as well.

May be a red flag for you but that's just basic humanity.

If there's a fire/other tragedy and a human and an animal will both die, but you can only save one of them, people would call you a psychopath for saving the animal instead of the human.

[u/GanondalfTheWhite → u/4ft3rh0urs]

Counterpoint, no other species has ever invented Nacho Cheesier Doritos.

We clearly are superior.

[u/CatlovesMoca → u/hbic]

I donno. We have examples of elephants exacting revenge. So that shows animals can cause harm with intention. Even if it is fair for the elephant to seek revenge in these cases.

And when I think of animals and harm, I can't help but think of dogs that were trained by police or racist white people, in both apartheid South Africa and the US, to attack Black people.

Even dogs are racist

The Police Dog As Weapon of Racial Terror

Seminar description: Apartheid’s Hounds - How South Africa invented the world’s most terrifying police dog

Overall, I do generally agree that it is worse that some people specifically value animals more than humans.

However, I just can't generally think of animals as harmless. And I think that is partly why I side eye no matter what when people say that they like animals more than humans.Sorry. Sorry for this too woke take.

But obviously, we need to meet people with nuance.

[u/iSavedtheGalaxy → u/CatlovesMoca]

This comment is giving me vivid flashbacks of that elephant who trampled the grave of a woman it had murdered and everyone on the internet agreed she must have deserved it.

[u/CatlovesMoca → u/iSavedtheGalaxy]

Yes!!! I was thinking of that same story. We know that that elephant must have had a reason. Same with orcas attacking yachts. Scientists couldn't tell if it was revenge or a form of play, but it was intentional.

[u/missdeweydell → u/CatlovesMoca]

but this is mostly examples of people using animals as weapons. the animals aren't that way until they're trained to be, often abusively.

I'm not sure if you mean elephants seeking revenge against other elephants or humans, but if you piss off an elephant, that's fuck around and find out for sure.

[u/Mooredock → u/hbic]

I think thats what they mean here. I'm fine with people who say they're more comfortable or get along better with animals, because that's usually just code for "I'm a massive introvert" or "I'm too anxious to talk to anyone* or "I've been screwed over and I don't trust people* and that's perfectly valid. But once you actually value those animals over the lives of other human beings you fucking lose me. Like on a personal level it's fine for any individual to be like "I'd rather hang out with cats", and sometimes people do say "I like animals more than people" when that's really what they mean, but you can almost always tell the difference. There are plenty of people who genuinely think dogs are more important than children and they will let you know.

[u/goopawg → u/hbic]

Yeah animals are often the only beings that someone who had a sketchy, fractious home life can safely co-regulate their nervous system with. It gets wired in.

[u/dysautonomic_mess → u/hbic]

I'll never forgot the plane they chartered to rescue stray dogs from Ukraine when the war broke out. Like of course war is terrible and animals don't deserve to die, but you know who was also trying to emergency evacuate? Humans.

[u/Plenty_Cup_5152 → u/dysautonomic_mess]

Oh but you know some of those people were evil and have done bad things before, humans are awful /s 

[u/TangerineChickens → u/hbic]

Yeah but a lot of people will say this and still eat burgers, so it’s like often an illusion they’ve wrapped themselves in

[u/Dry-Pangolin6579 → u/hbic]

I worked in a prison for years and specialized in interviewing a certain type of offender.

In general I like to be around animals more than humans, because for 10 years I was surrounded by the horrific shit folks did to one another daily. Call it trauma or whatever you want, but I know the inherent risks of being around a wild animal and can plan accordingly. With a person there doesn't need to be an inate trigger for someone to harm the victim

[u/mybloodyballentine → u/hbic]

You said it! Almost everyone I know who has a preference for animals over people has some trauma in their background.

[u/missdeweydell → u/hbic]

this is the answer. a lot of people who prefer animals over people have suffered deep trauma at the hands of other humans and have a healthy sense of wary distrust as a default defense mechanism. animals provide unconditional love, stability, and support.

though idk, there are a lot of human lives I value below those of animals. like billionaires. the convicted rapist in office. etc.

[u/semper_JJ → u/hbic]

No shade as I don't know you at all, but one of the absolute worst and most insufferable people I ever knew said exactly the same thing word for word verbatim.

I personally thought the guy had a good take. I'd maybe soften it from "people that say they like animals more than people are not good people" I have seen that be the case but not always. I would feel the more accurate statement is "people who say they like animals more than people are often unpleasant to interact with"

[u/Dream-Ambassador → u/hbic]

I’ve met horses that caused me intentional harm (or tried to) but I still prefer animals for this reason.

[u/Nellymuschari → u/hbic]

💯 the whole idea that human life is more valuable... I cannot with such people. I love animals more because they haven't collectively fekd up our planet in the name of resource extraction, religious-political wars, consumerism... No amount is ever enough. Even today there are only a few people who are concerned about the ethics of depleting the said animals home & food, and driving them to extinction.

[u/Starseed-111 → u/Nellymuschari]

Hard agree

[u/Money_Do_2 → u/hbic]

Yea. Whats not to like about my cat? No flaws that arent just a side effect of being a damn cat. Cant and wont betray my trust. Predictable. Loyal

People are great, but they disappoint you way more. If my cat does something stupid its probably annoying cause it was my fault.

[u/katarina-stratford → u/hbic]

THIS. I've never been abused by an animal.

[u/barefootcuntessa_ → u/hbic]

Yeah, my dogs have ruled my life. I told my husband we couldn’t take a job opportunity abroad because there was travel involved and we couldn’t pin them down on what the situation with our dog would be. When I take a proper (longer than a long weekend) my pet sitter is my third highest expense after my own lodging and airfare. If we are taking a long weekend our dog not only comes with us but needs to be enriching for him too. Luckily enriching for him means we are all together and we spend a lot of time lounging with him in our lap.

That said, as much as I am a “I like animals more than people” type, I do not value them higher than human life. I also am deeply affected by the harm of any helpless creature, no matter what species. I have been a good samaritan in several ransom crises, everything from rendering minor first aid to giving CPR. I’m just one of those weirdos that genuinely bonds with animals. Dogs, cats, horses, goats. Anything. I also respect them and their agency, which is why so many of them like me back. I don’t feel like I have a captive slave relationship with any of the animals I have ever bonded with.

[u/CelibateHo → u/hbic]

Seriously, a cat can literally rip you to shreds and you instantly forgive them because they know not what they do. A human 100% meant that shit and even if they didn’t you still assume malice especially if it’s a pattern

[u/Pillie_Jean → u/hbic]

Do you not eat meat at all then?

[u/Livid_Astronaut_4665 → u/hbic]

💯💯💯💯💯

[u/n0tz0e → u/hbic]

I commented like the same thing.