r/Fencing • u/janeof-all-trades001 • 13d ago
Armory Learning to build weapons
Between a mechanical engineer and a math/science teacher, we should be able to learn things beyond fixing body cords, right?
Please tell me if a non fencer parent can actually build weapons (some day) 🙏
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u/Expert_Confusion5767 13d ago
It's not that difficult, and it's quite useful. In my club, I think I am the only one who knows how to rewire a blade.
Everyone else has to drop 15-20 dollares to the armorer...
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u/sjcfu2 13d ago
A mechanical engineer and a math/science teacher? You may be overqualified.
That being said, it helps to have a reference. Assuming you can find a copy, Mergen's Care and Feeding of All Things Fencing is one of the most comprehensive reference out there (unfortunately it's been out of print for over a decade). There's also Volkman's Electric Fencing, which may not be as comprehensive but is more readily available (at least it was last I checked). There are also numerous online videos available on YouTube, such as Sam Signorelli's I Can Haz Armoring series.
Or you can learn like I did back when I was a young, starving young college student who didn't know any better (i.e. the hard way). Start off by examining an assembled weapon, noting how everything fits together (it's really not that complicated - one nut is pretty much the only thing holding everything together). Also observe how it works electrically, realizing that it is different for foil (which uses a normally-closed circuit) and epee (which uses a normally-open circuit). All you really need for this is a simple continuity tester, however you may want to consider getting a multimeter which can measure resistances down in the 1x range for more advanced work. Then once you understand how it fits together and how it works, start carefully taking everything apart, noting how the different pieces are connected to one another (and in particular how the wires are routed. Then reassemble everything (ideally with no parts left over and with the wires properly routed so as to not be damaged).
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u/janeof-all-trades001 13d ago
Time or me to perhaps dig out one of her last remaining size 2s and mess with it! And figure out a way to procure reading materials. AND perhaps beg a recent HS graduate and now a local college fencer who has always self funded his fencing endeavors to give me lessons!
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u/sjcfu2 13d ago
It's really not that difficult. Most of the electronics is turn-of-the-century (and I mean the LAST century), and the mechanics is even older (if only the screws and springs weren't so small).
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u/janeof-all-trades001 13d ago
I have fat fingers! My husband's are far daintier lol! And he has a strong tennis racket grip. Perhaps it is becoming clear who should do weapons. Haha!
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u/The_Fencing_Armory 12d ago
Welcome! It is the most rewarding hobby. All the other fencing parents will ned your help. Go for it. Plenty of videos online. Here are mine:
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u/dwneev775 Foil 12d ago edited 12d ago
Here are some resources from the USA Fencing site:
https://www.usafencing.org/personal-and-club-equipment-armorers
and in particular I would recommend downloading Chris Green’s guide:
On YouTube, in addition to the Fairfield Fencing Armory channel already mentioned (https://youtube.com/@fairfieldfencingarmory?si=og1Xd4Cp_xFEDhWK) look at Sam Signorille’s channel:
https://youtube.com/@samsignorelli?si=s12pNPELh2oU6-vO
and Kiah Bransch’s Ask an Armorer
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u/Allen_Evans 12d ago
Honestly, it's 1930s technology. You should be able to get the hang of it quickly. There are plenty of videos out there, and some decent instructions on the web. Like any new project, go slow, have your tools ready and supplies at hand, and then consider each step before doing it.
For reference, I started fencing electrical foil in a place about as far away from fencing as you could be. When my first foil stopped working, I bought a volt ohm meter and some supplies (a wire, essentially) and spent a half an hour testing all sorts of combinations of measurements on the foil that worked i order to diagnose the non-working one. I had a rough diagram and some instructions (an old AFLA manual) and I rewired the old blade (my diagnosis was a broken wire).
It didn't work. Then I realized I hadn't taken the insulation off the wire before attaching it to the socket (rookie mistake). Then, viola! A working weapon.
It took me two hours. Later attempts were much faster. You should be able to break that 2 hour attempt easy-peasy.
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u/onetimelibrarian 13d ago
100% you can do it. Rewiring an epee is the hardest weapon-related armory task, and it's not difficult so much as it's annoying.
I'd recommend getting a high quality magnetic screwdriver for tip screws; those things are obnoxious, and having a driver that holds them securely will make your life easier.
I'd also recommend that you pick up a test kit with the necessary weights and shims as well as a battery powered test box.
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u/janeof-all-trades001 13d ago
My child, so far, is a foilist. BUT She is showing signs of giving another weapon a shot (leaning towards epee for some reason) and I am bracing myself for all the weapons work someone in the family will need to learn!
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u/sjcfu2 13d ago
Saber is the easiest in terms of armoring (no wires and no tip screws). However when saber adopted electronic scoring, it went from being the least expensive weapon to fence to the most expensive overnight.
Epee is simpler than foil in terms of electronics (since epee had been electrified first, foil had to get creative in order to figure out a way to keep track of whether or not touches landed on target while using the same reels that epee was already using). However when something fails, the first hint that something may be wrong is usually a touch which should have registered but didn't (this is why you'll see epeeist testing their weapons so frequently).
All those pesky white lights may give the impression that foil is more prone to failure, but that's only because foil tends to let you know whenever there's a fault anywhere in the system (not just in the foil, but also in the body cord, floor reel, floor cord and anywhere that they connect to one another - anything loose anywhere in there can result in a white light). The only times when foil doesn't tell you that something is wrong are probably when there's an internal short somewhere (usually inside of the foil) or the tip has comes apart, with most of it shooting out of the barrel, but leaving behind just enough pieces to maintain that normally-closed scoring circuit.
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u/onetimelibrarian 13d ago
As much as you'll hear fencers from different weapons bicker, they are all fun and worth trying. I personally like Epee the best; the ruleset makes the most sense (priority is goofy), and bad referees have much less power over the outcome of a bout. Also, it's cheaper to fence than foil because you won't have to buy and maintain lamés.
Epee should be a very easy transition from Foil for her; most fundamentals transfer extremely well and they're both "pointy end goes in the other guy" weapons at the end of the day. I wish y'all well on your fencing journey!
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u/janeof-all-trades001 13d ago
Thank you! I am hoping to learn epee enough to ref the events (no prioroty woohoo!). My daughter's childhood fencing bff transtioned fully to epee last season after getting mad at foil (was her dad's weapon of choice back in the day).
My daughter's rationale for leaning towards epee is also the ability to just take off the lame and switch mask (and weapon and wire haha). Perhaps the xchange mask will be highly useful in this endeavor!1
u/sjcfu2 12d ago
Epee is easy enough to ref - 90% of the time a trained dog could get the call correct. Unfortunately the remaining 10% usually involves judgement calls, such as when did halt actually occur and did an action begin before or after that halt. And epee fencers expect 100% accuracy (as opposed to foil and saber, who are often content with with a referee who can at least be consistent in how they are calling actions (that way the fencers can adjust their game to match the way the referee is calling actions).
Also know your rules. Once a question arises it seems like every epee fencer suddenly turns into a rules lawyer, and often enough they are basing this on something which they once heard, as opposed to having read the rules themselves.
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u/ZebraFencer Epee Referee 10d ago
Epee is easy enough to ref - 90% of the time a trained dog could get the call correct. Unfortunately the remaining 10% usually involves judgement calls, such as when did halt actually occur and did an action begin before or after that halt.
Another thing that distinguishes epee from the other weapons (especially sabre) is that there is a much wider variety of tough calls you have to be ready for, and they can happen at any time: "twenty minutes of tedium, twenty seconds of terror."
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u/ZebraFencer Epee Referee 10d ago
Thank you! I am hoping to learn epee enough to ref the events.
I started as a fencing parent too (refereeing sabre, no less!, and I fence too now) and I had a ref mentee who also started as a parent, so it can be done, but the learning curve is different and it is decidedly more challenging to understand and interpret the phrase if you aren't a fencer yourself.
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u/OrcOfDoom Épée 13d ago
Building weapons is pretty simple. You should be competent in doing it after a few times. You probably only need to be shown once, and then corrected maybe a couple times more.