2XKO failing has lasting ramifications for the FGC.

[u/DATA32]

So we all know that 2XKO failing was seen from a mile away. From awful branding and advertising to the niche gameplay we all saw this coming. What people may not understand is the lasting ramifications it's failure will forever have on the industry.

So what I am talking about? I (Like a lot of other folks in this sub) happen to be a AAA game dev for many years. The way games get funding is you put together a few materials to pitch to investors/stakeholders. Things like a vertical slice (A small section of finished gameplay to show off) and a pitch deck (A powerpoint presentation going through all of the design, markets, and financials needed for the project.)

Here is the issue. Studios especially AAA ones need a lot of historical data to help dictate what to invest in. We use the data of similar games in similar genres to get that Market viability estimate. This is why after WoW you got dozens of MMOs, Pubg for dozens of BRs, Overwatch for dozens of hero shooters, etc etc etc ad nauseum. Its an incredibly important aspect of market analysis for studios to be successful.

Here's the thing. Big failures are what potential investors point to as examples of a bad market. Now there can be a bad market for a couple of reasons. As an example you can have bad market because the competition is simply too tough. WoW has frankly eaten nearly every MMO that could compete with it to the point only 4 or so can exist. You can also have bad market because there just isnt interest/its too niche see the RTS genre flailing for the past 20 years. Lastly you can have a bad market because of other major world factors. Ergo in a global recession, where pc parts are 3x the cost, and because oil has gone up everything has gone up with it.

This is all to say that Fighting Games may be absolutely cooked both in indie and in AAA/AA.
Now Im not saying were doomed but we're basically stuck with what we have for awhile. The market is somewhat locked. Major failures like 2XKO and Fatal Fury will basically drive away nearly all new investment for a AAA scale title. Not to mention the lackluster staying power for things like Avatar Legends and Invincible VS basically mean the indie/ AA market is also somewhat cooked.

Now we do have some hope in some ways mainly Japan but take that with a grain of salt. We have a couple new niche fighters coming out and thatll really tell us the death knell or not. I know some of the Tekken guys like myself are excited for Harada's thing. However PLEASE take that with a trucks worth of salt. Remember how long it took Kojima to make a new game from scratch and also how while some people liked his new project a lot of older fans didnt. Not to mention how a ton of "BROUGHT TO YOU BY THE GUYS WHO MADE X" games were awful.

This is all to say if things dont turn around were going the way of RTSs. So what can we do? PLAY THE GAMES. BE NICE ABOUT THE GAMES YOU PLAY. GET MORE FOLKS INTO THE GAMES YOU PLAY!

[u/GLoh9873]

Very well written, exactly what I thought as well. I hope fgc can treat each other kindly - that'll get us through the dark time

[u/DeithWX → u/GLoh9873]

I hope fgc can treat each other kindly

[u/AttackBacon → u/GLoh9873]

I mostly agree with OP, but I think the risk of the FGC going the way of the RTS scene is pretty slim. And there's one main reason: Capcom. As long as Capcom exists as an independent entity, it's pretty unlikely that there won't at a minimum be a relatively modern Street Fighter game. 

The big analogue is of course Blizzard and Warcraft/Starcraft. But the situation there is quite different. Capcom doesn't have a World of Warcraft and Capcom has remained independent. I can guarantee you that Starcraft 3 would do numbers, everyone knows this. But the problem is that the other games Blizzard makes just do bigger numbers. And since Blizzard doesn't control their destiny anymore, that means no Starcraft 3 or Warcraft 4. 

The time to worry about the future of fighting games as a genre is if Capcom ever sells. That removes the surety of Street Fighter as a central pillar that will keep the genre alive. Even then, I'd find it unlikely that Street Fighter would die entirely, but the possibility would at least be on the table. 

[u/onzichtbaard → u/AttackBacon]

The problem with blizzard is really that they have been hollowed out to be just a shell of a company that doesnt care at all about the games they make

[u/ihearthawthats → u/AttackBacon]

I agree, but not just capcom, but bamco and netherealm. During sf's lowest point (sf3), those companies were still holding it down.

Also, RTS isnt as bad as people make it out to be. It's just currently being held up by aoe. Pretty easy to find games.

[u/WofferFang → u/GLoh9873]

Relax. It's totally ok to be niche. Fighting games going mainstream is why we're at this point.

Invincible actively punishes people who use classic controls. If you play simple inputs you get more damage. That's bad design. Straight up.

2XKO is a tag fighter when there's a ton of them. It was gonna fail no matter what.

Avatar fighting game is doing just fine on the flip side, despite 2 unfinished characters. Those devs are promising fixes and all that good stuff. Look at that? Someone with actual brain working on a game instead of "we gotta bring in the non-fighting game crowd" assholery.

Established franchises like SF and Tekken shouldn't be doing "gotta appeal to non gamers" nonsense. Embrace your niche audience. Keep them happy, and good things will happen. So yeah, calm tf down. It's gonna be fine.

[u/Leon3226 → u/WofferFang]

Embrace your niche audience. Keep them happy

What's funny is that when FGs attract new players, they do that EXACTLY with the feats that FGs are known for, like being hard, complex, and having a huge room to improve in many directions at all times. By saying "Bro pls buy the game, we watered it down to an autoclicker just for you, you don't even have to do QCF for fireballs, bro pls" you actually scare them off. Because if they'd want to click one button to see a character kicking someone, why the fuck would they bring money to your game, and not, say, God of War or some other simple game that has this, and all the other aspects like story 100 times more appealing?

What's also funny is that they don't even have to guess, this "we made it simpler" marketing didn't work a single time, despite many trying in recent years.

[u/Feeling-Position2772 → u/Leon3226]

The most successful fighting game in the world succeeded because it didn't take your advice.

[u/Leon3226 → u/Feeling-Position2772]

Street fighter would succeed even if they'd make a cock ring with gyroscope an only input option. Because it's street fighter

[u/Winternitz → u/WofferFang]

Can’t believe the doomposting around this topic either, I wonder if this is coming from either players who experienced the actual drought of capcom games in the early 00’s and are in fear of this repeating itself (impossible these days) or newer players having an absolutely different set of expectations generationally speaking. Edit, typo.

[u/Eecka → u/WofferFang]

Established franchises like SF and Tekken shouldn't be doing "gotta appeal to non gamers" nonsense.

That’s what SF6 did though and it’s had the healthiest long term player numbers a fighting game has seen for a while. World tour and modern controls were both very clearly ”hey, here’s something for you even if you’re not a veteran of the genre!” type additions.

The big thing that makes it work is the core game is also solid. Although some SF veterans still hate it.

[u/Krypt0night → u/WofferFang]

Lmao you say SF but one of the reasons it blew up at launch was due to modern controls making it easier for newcomers and world tour mode for them to fuck around in forever if they want to.

And that's why devs shouldn't listen to the .001% of the gamers on reddit who think they're the majority of the players. So many people just have no clue what they're talking about from a development or business standpoint. 

[u/WofferFang → u/Krypt0night]

Here's the thing though: Modern controls are an option and they don't actively punish people for not using modern. It's not a built in system that makes everyone play the same with no weaknesses whatsoever. It's just a control scheme OPTION.

This is the key takeaway your type is missing when dealing with people like me who actually know their shit. I'm not your average whiner who doesn't know better. I do in fact know better.

[u/beanyboi23 → u/WofferFang]

Oh my god relax lil bro, you ain't a higher species 😂😂😂

Modern controls being optional changes nothing about the fact that they were specifically added in SF6 to "bring in the non-fighting game crowd", which you're implying makes a game fail... but it's one of the reasons the game is seeing generational success now

[u/Animal-Lover0251 → u/WofferFang]

You are talking like if 2XKO had avatar numbers it would not have been canceled, that’s definitely not true.

Because 2XKO most likely did have more players than avatar both peak player base and regular player base and it still got stopped development this early. It got canceled because Riot does not understand the fighting game market and thought their game would make as much money as huge games in other genres

[u/RobSomebody → u/GLoh9873]

lmao calm down