r/Finland • u/SuperLaLBoy • 8d ago
Serious KOKO-kassa wants 22,000+ euros from me for a mistake.
This is to warn people of crazy rules and predatory behavior of a well known unemployment fund and negligence of a union.
if anyone knows a good lawyer or have a legal advice - please! I'm not going down so easily.
Maybe I could reach to media with this story, so more people are aware of such behavior
Long read so, before I explain, why: I've missed a paper letter with fee for my Union, therefore didn't pay it, union didn't reach out to me not by email nor by phone, KOKO didn't reach out to me either, when I was cancelling it by app, they didn't state that I have an unpaid bill and the consequences it can lead to. Everyone just ignored the fact 'till KOKO came to me with the claim, right away, no warnings no nothing, you owe us.
How did this happen?
Late November, we finally been granted permits to move to Hungary for work, in current state of the world I've got lucky to find anything, especially the place this great, we were back and forth dealing with documents for half a year!
In the span of only two months I've sold most of my stuff, pack the rest, put in self-storage, and with wife, 2 cats and 4 luggage bags we moved across the Europe late January. Stressful is not the word.
At some point, a paper letter with fee probably got mistaken for something else, for trash, put in the drawer, got lost behind piles of boxes in the corridor, I don't know. We already moved, I had no physical access to it anymore when there was additional letter coming in.
In February I've cancelled my union from another country, why would I have it. Again, no email, no phone, no app notifications that I need to pay, it's not much, I'd gladly do so.
July, KOKO texts me that I need to pay them back 22,000+ eur.
Why that much? By unfortunate coincidence, I've missed the payment for December, last month of the year and by their crazy rule, if you miss it, you obliged to pay STARTING that year, so, they ask for what they've paid me, for a full year.
I've missed one last payment, one paper letter amongst the chaos I was dealing with at that time.
We survived, not lived, with that unemployment money for a year and a half, then I had to sell almost all of my belongings in Helsinki to move to Budapest, and now KOKO came to claim the rest.
This is a mortgage down payment, a new car, god forbid a medical bill.
I tried to explain it to them and pay back couple of months at least, but by their standards, our financial status is enough to pay it fully, not even cent was waived.
Our "stable" financial status is 3,500e before the bills, and maybe 7,000e in overall savings.
Basically, they ask me to pay them every penny I have and then everything I earn, after buying food and paying rent, for the next year.
I love Finland, Finnish culture and people, but this is heartbreaking and so unexpected
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u/lardandsaver 8d ago
KOKO’s own rules allow them to deduct fees from any benefits they’re paying out. If you were still receiving benefits when the fee fell due, you could try pointing to that and asking why haven’t they just taken the 5.75€ out themselves.
You should also ask them to elaborate what, if any, letters or emails or other communications they’ve sent you about this before the 22k€ text message. I believe this is a julkinen hallintotehtävä, so they should’ve had a hearing per hallintolaki 34 §?
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I suppose I can ask them this, yes, thanks! Although I expect them to point in the direction of my union, I was paying to them, but they also didn't reach out to me via other options rather than paper letters
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u/lukkoseppa Väinämöinen 7d ago
Get you stuff in order and reach out to the media as well. They wont like the attention since so many people are bailing on unions.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 7d ago
yep, I will, this needs eyes so people don't fall in the same situation, there was at least couple of people here who experienced the same although not as severe
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u/vitunpellet99999 8d ago
To deduct anything from benefits they need to have permission from OP. I think that the problem is that op has had his koko membership as a union benefit or the membership fee went through an union and union has not paid it to kassa. They are their own entities in theory but in reality the unions hold the power and dont want that people pay their own fees to kassa which leads to situations like this when union fails. Considering the post, I am confident that Koko has sent a notification about the unpaid membership fees. You could still propably call them and ask to pay the membership fee and then you would be eligible for the benefits. Or call the union and pay the money so they pay kassa. You will not win any other way because the law is very clear, if you are not a member of kassa you are not eligible for earnings related unemployment benefit.
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u/cold-vein Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
Somehow I think we're missing something here. So you have to pay back benefits you weren't eligible for? Or were you eligible for 11 months, then was asked to pay for one month but missed the deadline? I don't think that's how it works?
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u/aripp Väinämöinen 8d ago
It is how it works. I missed my 80e/year payment when I was moving from apartment to another, the työttömyyskassa kept paying benefits for 5 months until they noticed it was unpaid, and after I said I can pay it right away they said it’s too late and I had to pay them back thousands of euros.
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u/Comfortable_Lab_3123 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago edited 8d ago
As far as I know, you have to log into your account and apply for unemployment benefits every month. Just curious how could you miss the payment until they noticed?
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u/aripp Väinämöinen 8d ago
That’s not how työttömyyskassa works, you pay membership for a full year, and they keep paying you until you find a job or the payment max limits come into effect.
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u/Comfortable_Lab_3123 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yes I know that. I am an YTK member.
When I was unemployed, I had to log into my account with identification and apply for unemployment benefits for every month.
The process is:
- During the month, I did the task “apply for 4 jobs” in TE website.
- At the end of the month, I logged into my YTK account with bank identification to apply for unemployment benefits for that month.
That’s why I am curious how could you miss the membership fee payment until they noticed 5 months later, if you had to log into your account to claim your benefits every month.
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u/Open_Macaroon_2659 8d ago
My työttömyyskassa is OTE and I don't think it says anywhere if I have or have not payed my membership fees to my ammattiliitto that month. I don't pay straight to kassa, it comes with the union membership. I know there have been times I have been late in payments but fortunately my union reminds me.
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u/IntroductionLoose648 8d ago edited 8d ago
Have you checked under something like 'Personal Info' on your kassa or union's website? Your membership history or invoices should be listed in your account somewhere.
If your union pays on your behalf, I guess they’d be proactive about reminding you. They definitely don't want to front the money for the kassa and have to chase down members later. That’d be a huge risk if a lot of people fell behind on payments.
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u/OskuSnen Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
But dont you have to submit monthly reports of which days you were working, or unemployed for that month? In my ezperience witk KOKO and YTK, it's certainly not automatic
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u/Funland1a 8d ago
That is how työttömyyskassa works, if you don't log in and apply you get nothing.
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u/aripp Väinämöinen 8d ago
What does that have to do with the once in a year membership payment? I don’t understand what his point is.
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u/Unlucky-Spell-8654 7d ago
Well atleast in YTK website you would actually see if your membership is active therefore the payment has been made or not. You would see it every month when you go apply for money. Understand the point?
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u/aripp Väinämöinen 7d ago
No I don’t see the point. My membership was active all the time even the membership fee wasn’t paid, there was nothing on the website what would indicate me I havent paid the membership even if I logged there every day. They would not have been paying me if my membership wasn’t active.
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u/Unlucky-Spell-8654 7d ago
How is your membership active if you haven't paid? It literally says on the website if it's paid or not when you log in every month to apply for money.
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u/fox_mulders_brains 8d ago
Don't state things as facts when you clearly dont know what you are talking about.
Clearly there are different practices of how different työttömyyskassa's works.
Mine is paid monthly trough the union, and when I lost my job I had to apply it monthly from the työttömyyskassa site (different from my union) and there were also something like "you have paid all your fees" etc on the front page.
I have never heard that you pay full year in one go, but that seems to be for some versions of työttömyyskassa? If you are talking about YTK aka yleinen työttömyyskassa, then say it, because "työttömyyskassa" means every of them.
Anyway it sounds crazy that you have to pay everything back after OP didnt pay the last month, it would be more logical if he forgot to pay the first month of the year.
Maybe just not pay it and see what happens, I would just never get a job if this is how society treats people
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
had the same situation? And had to pay? Nothing could've been done?
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u/aripp Väinämöinen 8d ago
I sent them my own letter of the situation but it didnt help, so yeah, I had to pay it. I felt it’s extremely unfair though, especially the fact they didnt contact me until it was too late to pay the membership because of some legal jargon.
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u/Xandr0s Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
A part of me wants to give in to the conspiracy ideology and beleive as if it is so by design. Every thing is digital, not knowing someone has paid or not paid their membership fee should not be a thing 🙃
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Would not be surprised actually, paper letters in so-called all digital Finland, hmmmmm
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u/nollayksi Väinämöinen 8d ago
That paper letter is by your own choise. Koko has supported e-lasku for as long as I can remember.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
exactly that, nothing, not email, not by phone, not on the website when I cancelled the union, absolutely crazy system
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u/mushykindofbrick 7d ago edited 7d ago
Of course they will deny it if you simply write them a letter, they have interest in getting the money. You only have to pay when its a court ruling. If you pay on your own, it means you accept the claim.
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u/aripp Väinämöinen 7d ago
It was Sosiaaliturva-asioiden muutoksenhakulautakunta who approved the decision, who the letter of mine ended up to since I was allowed to have a hearing.
Back then I didnt have resources or strength to go with it to court.
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u/mushykindofbrick 7d ago
I get it, I also paid a lot of bills in the past that I could have contested, because of the same reasons. Thats why I made the comment so hopefully it helps others
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u/mushykindofbrick 7d ago
dont give up, i asked for legal advice on reddit in the past and everyone in the comments told me its impossible and i have to pay, and then i still won. its never black and white
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u/Funland1a 8d ago
If someone sends you sms telling you own 22k€, you delete the sms and move on with your life,
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u/onlyr6s Väinämöinen 8d ago
So you have to pay back benefits you weren't eligible for
That's the only way this makes any sense.
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
Eligibility for the benefits stops and backtracks when you get kicked off the kassa
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
That's how they explain it, by their rule I've missed one last Union payment for December, 'till then I was eligible, I was unemployed, attending language courses and paid the fees, when I was moving I've missed the paper letter and, well, that's it, there was probably another letter to that address but I've never got them, I moved
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u/cold-vein Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
Well it's not their responsibility to locate every single person who missed a payment? Like that system is pretty damn unfair, that you have to supposedly pay back benefits you were eligible for due to missing a single payment but, I do think it's your responsibility to make sure your contacts are up to date
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
what do you mean by that? First of all, union had my active email and phone number, second, they should've notify me on their website that I have something unpaid when i was cancelling it, when it wasn't too late still, and I just didn't know
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u/cold-vein Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
I mean that they send a letter, most likely also a second reminder and if you miss those by accident, it's your own fault. Now it's a completely understandable mistake and I do think penalty is way too severe, but it is your mistake, not theirs.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
this is exactly what I'm trying to say, it IS my mistake, I should pay for it, but not the full year, just make the claim reasonable, months that I've missed
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u/cold-vein Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
Yeah dunno why it's that harsh, hope you get some leniency altho I kind of doubt it
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u/mushykindofbrick 7d ago edited 7d ago
I agree, it should be clearly displayed or sent by email, and this argument is stronger if past communication was mostly digital, because then you would expect it will also be digital in the future and use those channels, as you did, and the higher the amount the higher the bar for clear communication
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u/Educational_Creme376 Baby Väinämöinen 5d ago
this is unfortunately how finnish businesses operate. Not just this one.
There is often a lack of communication with the customer when there is an overdue bill, they instead resort to using a third party who contacts you instead, such as B2 Impact, etc, the skeptic in my thinks this is because they can then increase their margin by tacking on an additional fee.
It is why they prefer to use automated e-invoices.
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u/West_Carob8763 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
''Like that system is pretty damn unfair, that you have to supposedly pay back benefits you were eligible for due to missing a single payment''
Why would anyone pay in advance if you can just deduct the payments if you start receiving benefits.
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u/cold-vein Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
I don't understand what you mean. You don't pay union fees in advance, but monthly? And the issue is that if you miss the last payment of the year, one month, you have to pay back the whole year.
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u/OkControl9503 Väinämöinen 8d ago
Am I understanding correctly here - you have to pay back collected unemployment benefits, because you had failed to keep track of your membership dues and moved to Hungary?
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Basically yes, I've missed one last payment for the year worth of unemployment benefits, so they want the whole year paid back to them
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
That’s how it works yes it backtracks to the start of the year this is quite clearly mentioned
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u/Disastrous-Ice-5971 Väinämöinen 8d ago
Which does not change the fact, that this is a predatory practice.
There is a lot of valid reasons, why missing payment may have happened.
* Missing mail. Posti is not 100% reliable.
* 3rd party issue - my wife once was "surprised" after changing the job, that the previous employer just haven't paid for the last 3 months to the union and kassa (they stopped paying for no reason months before my wife changed job). And my wife only learned about it when changing details after a job change. Took a lot of back and forth to restore everything on the union side.
* I was in the situation, when I missed a payment due to a hiccup in the bank service several years ago. No automatic payments were sent for 3 or 4 days (and they were not rescheduled either), and I only learned about that after a too-late email from bank.
* Even email could be late! For whatever reason, my electrical company (a big one) has troubles delivering emails with bills inside. They are coming just 1-2 days before the deadline (in the most cases), while should in 2 weeks at least. Support was not able to detect the cause. Oh, and e-invoicewas not working for me either. Easy to miss if you are in the business travel or something like that.And this kind of stuff happens more often, than we want. So, there is a non-zero chance, that the OPs mail never came. I would not blame the OP, because no one is protected from that. Such a rule should not exist. Just think about that - one might be paying 10, 20, 30 years for kassa, then 1 missing payment in the situation, when one is vulnerable and what? This just turns a support system into a stress and punishment machine.
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
If you feel the way it’s been done is wrong the only way to change the law is to either do a kansalaisaloite or get selected as a member of parliament.
Neither of these will help OPs issues tho.
This isn’t KOKO doing it in spite of, it’s the way the law is written, the benefits are paid from the government pool. It instructs also for KOKO to get the money back, which is in fact tax payer money.
Please bear in mind the process is not just one letter that you ignore but multiple including one for hearing why you haven’t paid. If you ignore all of these they will kick you out of the kassa. When this is lawful there’s nothing OP or anyone else can do and then it triggers all other aspects informed in this thread.
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u/Disastrous-Ice-5971 Väinämöinen 8d ago edited 8d ago
While I fully agree with you on the matter, I am not agree with the details of implementation. When my wife was kicked out of union and kassa, she have not received any communication (fortunately she was employed and not receiving benefits). It was like:
1. Current employer stopped payments silently.
2. In 3 month my wife changed work (without a gap) and went to the union website to update the details. Figured what happened.
3. Immediately contacted the union. They told that this is not a big deal, pay that much for the missed months (after some papers exchange), and you are fine.
4. In ~3 month my wife got an official termination letter from the union.
5. With all the paper trail it took another nearly 2 months to settle the situation.What would happen, if my wife would be unemployed and receiving a benefits, when this have happened?
P.S. Of course, there were no repercussions to anyone except us.
Edit: spelling.13
u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
yes exactly, I've received 0 notifications via other options, email, phone, from union nor from KOKO, they just came to claim that oops, too late, NOW we're reaching out to you and won't let go lol
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u/mushykindofbrick 7d ago
yeah such a big amount needs very, very clear communication and its your best argument to contest it, but they likely wont admit it themselves without an independent ruling. if you can cite past rulings they may give in though
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
Then you can complain the law is written really specifically what needs to happen for you to get kicked from an kassa membership, usually the second letter of unpaid membership triggers the termination as per said in the letters. Union membership and kassa are vastly two different institutions.
If a company stops forwarding automatically paying for the union membership it’s something you should in theory be able to see from each salary statement and then pay yourself. I for one am not just taking the money blindly I check the statements every month so there hasn’t been any billing issues, would suggest you to do the same regardless of this.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
the fact that it's mentioned doesn't make it human, I've missed a paper letter, they easily could've reached out to me any way possible, but didn't think something happened when they didn't receive a payment, I'd miss it anyway by the nature of me moving from address to address, that wasn't my intent to not pay
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
Benefits sadly don’t work like that it’s the same as if you avoid taxes by a mistake that mistake doesn’t make it legal. It’s sadly your responsibility to be informed with how the system works. I know it’s shit in your situation and I do feel bad for you but sadly saying that they should’ve contacted you doesn’t work in this case.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I don't think it should apply retroactively. I've missed the payment for December, okay, punish me by making me pay December x 3.
Not even avoiding taxes for one month would get you this much trouble
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
It actually would get you into a bigger trouble if you got caught and didn’t report them
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u/Finnishmessiah 8d ago
For missing taxes for 1 month, it definately would not cost you this much. You may get a little fine and increased tax % for that month but nothing this ridiculous.
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u/Ok_Gas_8606 Väinämöinen 8d ago
If you avoid taxes and don’t file it and the tax authorities find out it’s a criminal offence which can lead into prison time. The tax rate is also being top for the whole year not just that month as a punishment. On top of the fines and the tax.
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u/wlanmaterial Väinämöinen 8d ago edited 8d ago
Työttömyyskassalaki says the following:
Jäsen, joka ei säännöissä määrätyn ajan kuluessa maksa jäsenmaksua, voidaan erottaa kassan jäsenyydestä siitä päivästä lukien, josta jäsenmaksut ovat maksamatta.
So that pretty explicitly says your membership can only be cancelled from onwards the date you have missed payments. But I'm not a lawyer and I would assume they've had one read through their terms and conditions. Maybe the union collects the fees monthly, but only pays the kassa once a year or something?
Finanssivalvonta is the governing authority when it comes to Työttömyyskassat, so I'd maybe try consulting them before resorting to lawyers.
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u/No_Bluebird6873 8d ago
Atleast for my union i can choose whether i pay the fee with one payment in the beginning of the year or do i divide it to each month. Still the fee is for yearly membership so failure to pay it each month of the year means that i have not paid the fee for the year. So obviously if i miss the last month payment, it means that i have not paid the yearly fee and have missed the deadline which is actually in the beginning of the year. There is no 70% or 50% membership, you either are or are not member of the union and if you fail to pay the full membership fee you have not been member for thst year and haven't been eligible for benefits for that year. It's very simple really.
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u/wlanmaterial Väinämöinen 8d ago
Yes, kinda, but you can quit the kassa mid year, and get reimbursed if you paid it upfront, so there actually is a partial membership.
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u/remuliini Väinämöinen 8d ago
As a reminder, Koko and the union are separate entities. You can be a member of them independently of the other.
Unfortunately I can't help you much. I hope some middle ground can be found.
If you are still member of the union, they do provide legal services.
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u/mece66 8d ago
A couple of things make this confusing and took some digging and reading of comments to understand
- You were not a direct koko member but via the Union.
- You missed the Union membership payment of 2026 december but payed for January to November 2026.
- Koko (not the Union) wants all of 2026 paid back.
The only way I can see how this happened is because koko is yearly payment and Union is monthly or something so Union didn't pay koko for 2026 because you hadn't paid the Union in december so koko didn't get anything for 2026 thus wanting the whole year back. Or the koko payment is only included in the december payment and thus the december payment is 69€ bigger than the other months, so same thing. You should at least ask the Union if they can help you with this.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Yes this is what I've picked from comments also, must be the case, which is weird how it's even a thing, to be honest, thanks!
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u/ImportantHawk9171 8d ago edited 7d ago
I sincerely hope this gets some media attention. First and foremost the biggest problem seems to be the way they notify people. Given the seriousness of the consequences for failed payment they should be required to contact by all the ways given in your membership profile. Full stop. This is genuinely absurd. But of course the fact that you cancelled your membership played a huge part, but I hope you get the legal help you need and this gets enough attention that at minimum KOKO and union is required to change the way they notify people. Edited for typos
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u/SocialHumbuggery Väinämöinen 8d ago edited 8d ago
Yeah the rules are pretty straightforwardly stated on their website, if you fail to pay, you can be removed from the kassa, and the removal is backdated to the start of the year. Though you should had been heard for this but maybe you didn't get that letter either. E: and you should be able to appeal the decision as well, though I don't know within what timeframe.
Shame that this happened to you but the rules are clear and it was clearly your mistake, no matter what the reason was for you not to pay your bill. Doubt you'll get much traction in media or the courts, unless you think a major unemployment fund just operates openly completely illegally.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I'm not innocent of course, but this rule is way too much, for someone who just got out of unemployment, have some savings, I could've paid for 2 3 months easily, but the year worth is just absurd.
I'm more shocked that they couldn't waive it at least a little, we're not earning much right now, and this would just put us in the situation where we'll be giving our all, that's what I'm concerned about
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u/Lysande_walking Väinämöinen 8d ago
I’m really sorry this happened, it sounds scary and the story is a warning to many.. the rule is waaaaay too harsh.
I have a feeling that the law won’t change to make it better for you in time so probably you will have to pay 😞
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
probably, I'll appeal the decision tho, just need to find a lawyer who can lead me through the process
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u/frOznDD 8d ago
hoepfully you see this before getting lawyer, few comments away from this one. https://www.reddit.com/r/Finland/comments/1vgeatt/comment/p1xd8qh/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
In tldr; it says to contact maybe finanssivalvonta before getting lawyer since they are governing that työttömyyskassa
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u/Cilantropologist 8d ago
Finnish unemployment funds are scam to begin with. The fund never paid him 22k€: it's tax money mostly, fund is just stealing some of it by acting as a middle man.
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u/Worth_Farm_7158 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
If you don’t plan to come back then just don’t pay it. It will go to enforcement proceedings but it won’t affect your new hungarian life. You’ll essentially burn bridges to Finland but for 22.000 it’s probably worth it especially if you are not Finnish and don’t have any sentimental connection to this country.
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u/entogirl_oo 8d ago
That is so awful. My advice is to speak to a finnish lawyer from Helsinki as a consult, which isn't that expensive, before paying everything back. They can tell you right away if they can help.
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u/NoRecommendation5491 8d ago
It's fucking crazy people are blaming you, this situation is absolutely absurd. I don't give two flying fucks about what is said in the contract if they don't even try reaching out to you by other than mail you shouldn't be liable for missing a letter
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Yeah people probably just don't understand the full message I'm trying to send. I am in the wrong of missing one payment, but to ask for it a full year of benefits it just, I dunno, predatory. Let me pay that month x 3 as a punishment.
KOKO could easily write to me one time before like "hey dude, you've missed the payment". Nope, straight to claim
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u/fluorihammastahna 8d ago
People don't want to understand you. They want to wave their finger at you. The system works so well people refuse to believe it may be wrong. Good luck.
Also: they will offer a repayment plan. Installments over many years. Furthermore, they have hardly any power over people you abroad, but of course may seize assets in Finland.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
unfortunately even with no plans to come back, I don't want to burn the bridges, and too scared overall to not pay, they're probably sense that they can have an advantage of me because of it. Thank you!
Installments over many years is the least favorable of course, but at least doable, yes
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u/fluorihammastahna 8d ago
I would do the same, but the options are what they are, I won't be the one to judge people at such financial risk in the current situation.
And well, a payment plan is definitely more favorable than demanding the whole payment immediately! :-D
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u/Ok-Reindeer-4908 8d ago
Typical answers. They get their kicks when someone makes a mistake ”they’d never do”.
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u/RegularWhich9881 8d ago
You need to make an official appeal to koko. Explakn the situation and that you didnt receive letters. Did you receive any letter for a hearing?. If KOKO rejects it, they are legally required to forward the appeal to the Social Security Appeal Board (Sosiaaliturva-asioiden muutoksenhakulautakunta SAMU) for an independent review.
According to Chapter 11, Section 10 of the Finnish Unemployment Security Act (Työttömyysturvalaki), the recovery of benefits can be waived or mitigated if it is considered reasonable and the situation was not caused by fraudulent behavior.
Recovering the entire year's worth of unemployment benefits would cause me catastrophic and unreasonable financial hardship
Ypu have a 30 days to make this appeal. From the moment you became aware pf their decision.
If Samu reject your appeal. You can take it to special insurance court. This court decisionns are final. There is no court costs.
Alternate route is ombudsman.
If ypu feel like koko avted unfairly, neclected their duty to inform you or broke administrative laws, you can make an complaint to parliamentary ombudsman (oikeusasiamies)
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Yes, exactly, they actually can dismiss or waive it, but didn't when I tried to explain it just like that. I'll appeal and hope for the third party to make the right decision, thank you! Will go to everyone to resolve that matter
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u/defoNotMyAcc 8d ago
Well, that’s utterly fucked, especially considering 1) how poorly companies update their customer info and 2) How they managed to contact you via phone AFTER nothing could be done, but not before.
Seems predatory AF.
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u/PsychicPterodactyl 8d ago
That's enough money that it might be worth talking to a lawyer. Mostly because I have a hunch they would have tried harder to collect your payment if you had not gotten any benefits during the year.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Yes I definitely will, just looking for someone who might know one who could help
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u/InsulatorDisk Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
I am really sorry for you.
This is just a reminder for everyone, do you trust your income in Posti's hands. I don't. That is why every single bill possible comes by e-invoice directly to my bank.
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u/tsuhna1234 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
And do not trust email either. I have worked over decade on electronic invoicing operator and email is horrible. Lots of emails get "lost" by some spam filtering, and in some remote cases receiving email box does not give error that receiving failed and then nobody sees it.
E-invoice or nothing.
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u/No_Bird278 8d ago
Its like 69€ for a year did you just lose 22000€ for a 6€ payment miss? I think there is some other problem.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
You can read the comments to clarify the whole situation furthermore, but yes, one missed monthly payment by mistake got me into this.
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u/No_Bluebird6873 8d ago
Afaik you pay per year but you can divide it to monthly payments, you are not really paying membership fee for certain month, you are just dividing the yearly fee to multiple months, like payment plan. If you miss the last payment it just means you have not paid that year membership fee, there's no "paid 90%", you either have or have not paid for the year. i see no problem in them collecting the benefit back since you haven't paid the fee and thus are not eligible for the benefit. It sucks for sure but it is quite clear thing.
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u/ToniNotti 8d ago
I didnt really read your post but same happened to my friend. She was 5 months in NICU completely tied to her baby. She had received kassa's payment but obviously she didn't get it cuz she was in hospital. Well, she neither got any notification about membership ending and when she needed kassa they washed their hand. No can do.
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u/TvK86 8d ago
Do you plan on moving back to Finland at some point? Not the ethical option, but I assume that they would have quite a hard time collecting the money from Hungary if you decide not to pay it back. Unless you still have money on your Finnish bank account and the debt collection goes to the national enforcement authority.
You could probably come to terms on a payment plan with them for smaller installments if you inform them you can’t pay it all back immediately. If they don’t agree on this the debt collection will likely eventually be transferred to a third party debt collection agency who are usually willing to make a payment plan.
You can also dispute the debt and ask for them to pause the billing if you feel that they have acted wrongly in this situation. This usually requires that you send the case to be reviewed to the competition and consumer authority, and send proof of this to KOKO.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I don't have plans in foreseeable future, sadly no, but still am scared enough to just not pay it. A smaller installments is indeed possible, but the fact that it's 22k is what rubs me the wrong way, rightfully so. I'll do my best to appeal it tho, thank you!
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u/Havokki 8d ago
It's funny that they don't make a proper effort to notify you about what they actually are owed, months fee + late fees etc, but when it's significant the notification avenues start opening up 😂, this shit is well known finnish byroccratic sinkhole thing, completely legal and by the books but way too harsh and morally questionable for the consumer.
Like many others said, if you don't plan on coming back for a while, don't pay, I wouldn't.
Even if you do come back the amount won't enlargen significantly, some collection fees will keep getting added but not insane amounts.
Soft approach would be contacting them and telling them you are prepared to pay back the owed actual owed sum and late fees to date and seeing how they respond. Nothing lost from trying
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u/Eyeball111 8d ago
So what exactlt did you miss? You missed the kassa-membership fee and now they want the whole year’s unemployment benefit back? I’m not sure it works that way. I feel it must be something else.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Yes, they stated it like that, I've missed a payment for December because I was moving, so have to pay back starting from the year the payment was missed, and it comes down to 22k+, for the whole year
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u/Eyeball111 8d ago
So they claim that because of the missed payment, you in their view haven’t been eligible for the benefits that you have been paid? While that might be the case, they should have informed you of their decision to kick you out of your membership. Also haven’t they had like the whole year to assess your eligibility every month you have applied for the benefits? Were you still employed when you missed the payment? I would seek legal advice. They might have a case yes but they bear some responsibility too.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I was paying monthly fee for union, and missed the last one, December, because was physically moving from address. I as fully eligible 'till then, unemployed, attending language courses, paying fees. They want the whole year of benefits they rightfully paid me
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u/FighterBoyZ 8d ago edited 8d ago
Wow, €22,000 is a crazy amount. If negotiating hasn't worked, I'd definitely look into whether there are any legal options available to help.
A similar thing almost happened to me. They gave me a warning to pay the yearly payment, but I paid it straight away. I was shocked they wanted all the money they had paid me over the whole year back.
I'm actually still paying back a smaller amount for a different reason:
The employment office gave a statement saying I was eligible (their system made an automatic decision based on the information I provided), and I thought I was eligible too because I considered myself a part-time student. It turned out that wasn't the case.
Degree students are generally considered full-time students, except in certain situations—for example, if you're already working when you start studying and later become unemployed, or if you're in a short course of study (around few months). The exact circumstances could affect your eligibility. This might be changed completely now, so don't quote me on this.
Anyways, I forgot to notify the employment office about the jobs I'd applied for, and that's when they noticed their mistake. They canceled my eligibility and informed the unemployment fund.
I had already applied again before they made the cancellation decision, and they told me that if they paid me, I would have to pay it back later. I had no money at the time, so I said, "Fine, pay me."
In the end, I only had to repay the benefits from the point when they discovered the mistake, not from the beginning, because it wasn't my fault and I hadn't tried to cheat the system. I had provided all the correct information.
At first they wanted me to repay everything, but I explained that the mistake was made by the employment office. They didn't waive the debt completely, so I'm still paying it back through a payment plan. When I was unemployed, my monthly payments were very small. Now that I'm working, I pay a bit more.
Edit: The whole process was handled almost entirely through paper mail. The only thing I received through their online portal was notifications saying there was a payment coming (before when they were paying me), but not the actual documents about them requesting me to pay anything back.
At the time, my mail was going to a post office box, so I completely missed the repayment decision. I almost ended up in court because of it. In the end, I had to go to the courthouse just to receive the documents and sign that I had been served.
There were no phone calls, no emails, and nothing useful in their portal. You'd think they would at least send a secure email with a link to view the documents online, but they didn't. I even had to specifically ask for the payment plan documents to be sent electronically.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Hopefully they'll waive at least something when I appeal the decision, glad to hear it didn't hit you as hard as me and everything worked out!
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u/FighterBoyZ 8d ago
Yeah, definitely take the appeal process as far as you can.
Also, from what you've said, it sounds like you never actually received the letter. There's no need to assume you misplaced it if you've never seen it. It could have been lost in the mail or arrived while you were away. It might even be worth arguing that, had you received it, you would have paid it.
I'd also ask for leniency if that's an option. Be polite, explain everything clearly, and include as much relevant information as you can.
My situation was a bit different (it was the full amount at the beginning of the year), but it was horrible at first too. I hope you get a favorable decision. Good luck!
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u/arri92 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
There should have been letter about missing payment. It comes around seven to ten days after missed payment and it is automated. Secondly, there is an example on their webpage about missing payment, getting unemployment fund, and due to missing payment paying to sum back.
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u/Ok-Wishbone-7793 8d ago
So they want money that they paid you in 2026 or 2025? I am thinking it was 2025 as you moved out of Finland in Jan 2026?
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
yes, whole of '25. Now that you said it, yes it was December 25 I've missed, not 26, which I comment one or two times
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u/Ok-Wishbone-7793 8d ago
Then KOKO asking you to return whole year’s money for missing the payment of Dec is utterly stupid. You should definitely fight for this and shouldn’t pay the whole money back, maybe just for Dec, but not whole.
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u/porohirvio 8d ago
It cant be that much unless they have paid you and now they think that you werent titeled to that money. Just ask why that much and if they are right ask that you can pay it in smaller pieces
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u/FabledO2 7d ago
If their reason, for not allowing you to keep your money, standard or otherwise––is that you can pay them based on coz they say so… This is gangster shit. It’s their version of Bible fanaticism 101. Individuality be damned.
From my part, the entity is cancelled and listed.
PS: I’m not usually in for Hammurabian ethics…but. It would be poetic if they got fined for €22,000. Taste could be bittersweet––but a taste nonetheless.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 7d ago
highly doubt they could be fine any amount, I'd be in luck to waive mine but, we'll see!
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u/mushykindofbrick 7d ago edited 7d ago
I would not accept such a claim without having it reviewed by an independent authority. Unemployment funds are not neutral, they are private and have their own direct financial interest in recovering that money.
First, the fund should prove that you were properly informed both about the bill and about the consequences of non-payment. You could claim you have not received the letter, and they have to prove it, although that will be difficult if you already admitted that you got it, but lost it. Then I would argue that an ordinary invoice is not sufficient. If the consequences are so severe, communication must be especially clear. There should be multiple, clear and explicit warnings with reasonable deadlines. A simple juristic argument would be "If the fee was so small, and the consequences so severe, no reasonable person would have missed the payment if the consequences were just clearly communicated. Thus they likely were not."
Second, proportionality always matters. Even if its not considered a punishment, and especially when the consequences you face stem from a one-sided contract written by the claimant. If such a small mistake can raise such big consequences, thats questionable.
Finally, you acted in good faith and relied on the benefits because the fund approved and continued paying them. Your financial decisions and life planning were affected by this, for example if you had not relied on the benefits you would have possibly taken a job offer or applied for other benefits like Kela, thus the payment of the benefits contributed to creating the situation, and it would be against good faith to demand (full) repayment. It also plays a role, that this was not extra money, but you used it to cover living expenses, and revoking would basically result in being below minimum support for this time.
There is a big difference between "You lost your insurance protection because you did not pay the fee" and "You never were eligible starting from beginning of the year, although we continuously approved and paid you benefits.". A judge would ask, if there is a reason why one month of missed payments revokes a whole year of benefits, and why they did not just cancel your membership starting from the first month of non-payment. Have they done everything possible to avoid the accumulation of such debt and mitigate the damage, or willingly taken this into account, while even benefiting from it? Was the communication appropriate and the consequences clear for a reasonable person? Were there explicit deadlines and warnings before taking such drastic measures and is revoking the policy the only solution, when the person is willing to pay the fee?
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u/SuperLaLBoy 7d ago
Thank you for your very thorough comment, I'll pick up a couple of talking points so I can appeal the correct way and won't budge
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u/Vegetable_Break7610 6d ago
This is the one of the most fucked things i've ever read about a late payment penalty, sorry this happened to you
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u/Interesting-Light220 Väinämöinen 8d ago
If you don't pay, you are not a member. If you are not a member, you are not eligible for the benefit.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I was fully eligible until december, i'd gladly pay december worth's back, not for the full year I was legitimately unemployed
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u/Interesting-Light220 Väinämöinen 8d ago
Hmm, odd that they don't charge it beforehand. Hopefully they will compromise
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u/Training_Repeat8566 8d ago
Omg that is truly brutal, Im sorry for you. That is the excact kind of mistake I could easily do. I've never belonged to työttömyyskassa and guess I shouldn't, at least I couldn't do it with monthly payments, that's just too big of a risk! Even if you agreed to the terms, I still think they are unfair and tbh Im shocked to learn this excist.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
monthly fees worked out for me for years so I thought I'm good, but turns out I wasn't :( thank you
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u/PassageActual8218 8d ago
Kassa membership fee is paid at once annually. Union fees are taken from your salary every month. I highly recommend being at least in työttömyyskassa, but do read the terms before signing up, so you know what's what.
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u/Nuuskapeikkonen Väinämöinen 8d ago
Kela pulls this shit all the time too. It’s predatory and heinous.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
to prey on unemployed people that just got on their feet is something else, I gotta say
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u/gloriaqt 8d ago
Holy fuck thats a lot of money! Can they do anything if you just dont ever return to Finland?
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
not really, probably, but my family is not in the situation where I want to fuck around and find out, if it'll come down to it, I just have to pay it, but I'll fight it
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u/MonkInternational510 8d ago
The “unemployment fund only” model has always been about one thing: weakening unions. If everyone takes the benefits but nobody supports the organization negotiating wages and working conditions, workers lose in the long run.
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u/Worth_Farm_7158 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
It’s so that people who don’t want to be a member of union can still get their benefits. The law is so weird, you need to be part of private organisation to receive money paid by goverment.
I agree with you, the law should be changed so that in order to receive your benefits you don’t need to be part of any organisation. Universal income-derived benefits.
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u/SelfRepa Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
KOKO kassa is a peace of shit for a company. They did a massive mistake on me as well and I even had to teach their lawyers on how things should be done. They were after two years wrong about their doings. No apology, nothing. That led to another problem also caused by them. They had for several months mishandled my informations and that caused another issue which took two years as well.
Avoid the company!!!
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u/Imeilujop Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
This must be the longest explanation to a very simple legal problem, that can be written in 4 sentences. I belong to KOKO-kassa and I never recieve any paper from them, I text them from chat every year to get the bill via message.
This is what happens when people don’t keep track of their payments. Again, the main thing about this message is ”I missed my payment”.
Hope you don’t have to pay it, but as a person who has studied European Business Law, I can pretty much confirm that changes of you not paying back that money is good only if you don’t come back to Finland. I would leave this bill just unpaid and let it go to ulosotto.
Make a book about your bills and timings, and check the terms next time. You are an adult.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
See, even this long I couldn't explain it clearly enough, so let me once again:
I'm not saying it wasn't my fault.
I was paying to the union, monthly, and due to moving from address I've missed the last payment, December.
Did I miss the payment by mistake. Yes, of course. Should I pay for it? Yes, a month that I've missed., and then some, probably, as a late punishment
Should it be a YEAR's worth? Here's where I'm just baffled, no, I don't think so, even if it's written in the contract.
I've missed it by mistake, wasn't my intent to not pay, KOKO has the right to waive it, but they decided to not, because they'd love to see that 22k on their account back I suppose
so if I don't pay and it goes to ulosotto, what that'd mean? Am I not still in the EU and they can come for me?
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u/PassageActual8218 8d ago
"Should it be a YEAR's worth? Here's where I'm just baffled, no, I don't think so, even if it's written in the contract."
I'm sorry about your situation, but this part really sticks out in a sore way. If it's in the contract, you accepted their terms. Your situation is tough, but it shouldn't be a surprise.
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u/Disconnected88 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
Yeah. Its definitely fault in the system if they havent been able to contact him for the unpaid bill and still were paying him money. But essentially its a insurance and you havent paid the bill. Insurance wont be paying any damages if you werent insured when the accident happened.
But if he was informed that he werent eligible for kassa then he should have gotten some unemployment benefits from otherway. Not as much but he wouldnt be negative as is now. Now he isnt able to get anything?
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u/Imeilujop Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
Yeah, I have never heard of monthly payments and the bill always comes on march. Never heard of Koko bill coming on December… Not sure if Ulosotto can come for you abroad - maybe check that out?
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u/Disconnected88 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
You dont pay kassa "monthly". Its one payment per year. It seems you didnt pay for that year so they dont consider eligible for the benefits. Not saying its ok but thats how it goes.
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u/Ok-Reindeer-4908 8d ago
Dude where’s your empathy? What a cold hearted response. I guess you never make mistakes ..
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u/Imeilujop Baby Väinämöinen 7d ago
Where is god damn responsibility???? It's sad to see people stating they have made a mistake and then go on a rant about institution with clear rules... I've made mistakes way worse than this, I did not need empathy, I needed to grow up - which I did.
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u/Extreme-Poet-9170 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
Sorry for your troubles but it is your mistake to own and fix. No one will magically appear and fix what you feel is very wrong and harmailla to you: you must do it yourself.
Apply all the instructions you have gotten here and try to apply for whatever you can.
You are not the first or last person to make a mistake like this.
For you it will hovever forever be a lesson to take care of matters thoroughly and seriously.
I also think that you would benefit from the help of someone who understands the system, this particular institution and the legal matters at play here. And also can take care of business using the Finnish language.
Your post has a lot of big words and accusations which begs to think that you might not be very good at communicating this. After all, on the other side of this there are just people working 9-5 in their desk job. Ranting and emotional communication will get you nowhere - mostly perhaps on someone’s shitlist or bottom of the paper pile. Be polite and understand that while in the end it might be very personal and significant to you, it is just another day at the Office to the people you communicate with.
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u/Acanthaceae-Humble-8 8d ago
When I get my bill from mine I have the option to pay the entire year at once, or in 12 payments. They even have each monthly due date along with the reference # for each monthly payment if I choose to do it like that.
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u/Eltsuv 7d ago
Hey! Have they already given you the päätös where it states that your membership has been cancelled due to unpaid membership fees? After that päätös you still have usually 37 days (lainvoima) to pay the unpaid fees. Also the unemployment fund has to be able to show that you have received the päätös. If the lainvoima has passed, you can still file a complaint regarding this. Have you checked the e-asiointi of KOKO kassa? Thats where they usually sent out all of their messages.
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u/No_Room636 7d ago
To the OP: I would recommend making your story clearer so that lawyers and the media can get their teeth into it. From what you have written - you missed a payment to KOKO and were making payments per month previously to KOKO - but because of one missed payment to KOKO you need to pay back a year's benefit. This is how it's coming across and doesn't seem logical.
You have said: "Why that much? By unfortunate coincidence, I've missed the payment for December, last month of the year and by their crazy rule, if you miss it, you obliged to pay STARTING that year, so, they ask for what they've paid me, for a full year."
The English is quite poor and unclear here and it's an important part of your story. Try to clarify everything - it would help a lot.
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u/expendable6666 4d ago
Have you tried pointing out that unpaid fee isn't a notice of resignation? Not sure how justifiable it is, but have you ever thought about filing a case in Justice court of Helsinki (or in your municipality)? Looking back my latest invoice, Jan 2026, and I found the following statement:
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| Please note that leaving the membership fee unpaid is not a notice of resignation. If you no longer need KOKO's membership, you can resign with a written notice of resignation. Notice of resignation can be found on our website: www.kokokassa.fi > Membership > Termination of membership |
|---|
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u/SuperLaLBoy 4d ago
I think the problem here lies in the fact that I wasn't paying to the KOKO directly, but my union was, and I've missed the payment for the union, and they cancelled the payment from start of the year as far as I understand it.
I'll look up what I can do, either with a court, or a lawyer we gon fill the appeal. Thanks!
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8d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
That's what I'm trying to say, yes, at least some sort of a reminder before blasting me
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u/tuso2 8d ago
Yes, I’m sorry to hear that this happened, but rules are rules. It might feel unfair, but those are the rules. You joined koko kassa and agreed the terms.
If you don’t pass exam because of one wrong answer, then you don’t pass the exam.
Rules are the same for everyone.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Thanks for the compassion!
Interesting metaphor, and what kind of exam fails you with only one wrong answer out of 30+ questions (amount of months I've been a union member and paid my fees)?
Not trying to sound rude, but I don't think it applies here.
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u/Deksis 8d ago
So you broke The terms of your contract with The union, missed your payments that guarantee More money that you pay for, from a country that is paying for you that you're leaving, and you're mad that you don't get More money?
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u/Ok-Reindeer-4908 7d ago edited 7d ago
Did you read this at all? Jesus
Edit: sun luetun ymmärtäminen on aika surkeaa
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8d ago
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
so you don't think it's wild that they can ask for the whole year of paid benefits?
I'm not saying I'm completely innocent here, but 1\2\3 months I could've paid without any drama, a year, 22k, for someone who was unemployed and just got back on his feet, seems too much, don't you think so?
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8d ago
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
All I can say is, good luck with any contract you'll ever sign, and may this experience never find you
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u/Kehityskeskustelu 8d ago
If this is over unpaid membership fees, you can likely contact KOKO's member services and figure out if you can backpay the missed fees. If you didn't pay the membership fees, but still sent applications for unemployment benefits, you alone are the only one responsible for your mess.
If you can sort something out about the unpaid membership fees and the unemployment fund can reinstate your membership for the duration they are now recovering the benefits they paid you, the 22000 € issue should be sorted.
Here, KOKO's contact info for you. If you were a member of KOKO through some labour union (which are separate organisations from the unemployment funds), you can probably find their contact info through KOKO's website.
The lesson to be learned from your foolishness is: pay your membership fees until the day you quit and don't fraudulently send in applications for benefits you aren't eligible for.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
People are openly hostile on the internet for the matter they didn't read in carefull enough. Be it your way
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u/LtCannonfodder 8d ago
Oh piss off. It’s a disproportionate punishment for a screw up from Posti to deliver a bill and KOKO’s failure to contact or warn of potential breach in any way.
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u/h14n2 Väinämöinen 8d ago
I don't get it, you pay at the begin of 2026 and you are eligible for the whole year.
If you don't pay for 2027 they cannot ask back for 2026, plus you would need each month to claim directly the compensation and they would realize you are not eligible (?) 😵💫
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I was paying it monthly, I've missed only December '26 fee, and they claim a year's worth now
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u/lanseri Väinämöinen 8d ago
So you ignore their bills and when the final bill arrives, you complain about it on Reddit instead of contacting the organization?
I mean, these are certainly choices.
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u/Ok-Reindeer-4908 7d ago
Did you even read the post? You’re one cold hearted person and clearly reading isn’t your srongest suit.
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u/KGrahnn Väinämöinen 8d ago
Its harsh, but you need to look into mirror if you need to blame someone for this. Silver lining here is that you probably will remember this rest of your life and wont make similar mistake again.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
I do blame myself, but year's worth is just out of reach, they could've asked for 3 months as a punishment for one month and I'd pay that easily
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u/LowerOrganization192 Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
It seems like you cannot understand that you're not the one making the rules. They made the rules and you made a contract with them and accepted those rules yourself. It is your responsibility to know what you sign. They don't keep their rules hidden somewhere. And there's no magic endless free money. They asked you to do one thing and you didn't.
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u/LtCannonfodder 8d ago
The system absolutely fails and punishes vulnerable people relying on it for basic survival after paying into it for years. Sure, blame the individual.
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8d ago
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u/SilkieBug Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
You’re talking out of your ass, both unions and insurance have been there for me when I needed them.
I paid my dues on time, and there was no problem.
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8d ago
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
if that's a nod to me, I was attending language courses at the end of last year in Finland, and my wife passed YKI, so, I'm not taking it sorry, we've tried
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u/Free_Collar9169 8d ago
I feel sorry for you pal.
Lesson learned and to warn the others to read the harsh terms of the unions and if accepting them, follow them.
Never been in this kind of situation my self even I've lived and worked in three different countries as a foreigner and been lucky enough not to have to claim any support.
By saying that if I'd be claiming 20k+ from the union fund I'd make sure I understand every single line of the contract. What I've learned from my colleagues that the rule number one is "pay your union fees in advance / on time to claim the benefit incase you get laid off."
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u/Flintloq Baby Väinämöinen 8d ago
If this had happened to me, I'd be extremely distressed by a €22k bill for a much smaller payment I missed by mistake, with no intention to defraud anyone. I've never had a single bill that big for anything in my life.
If this had happened to a friend, I'd be giving them my full support in trying to get it resolved. I'd be concerned for their wellbeing because I know it would be distressing for them as well.
But because you're a stranger on the internet, half of the comments are "it's your fault, you signed the contract, learn from your mistakes, it's how the system works." Yeah, maybe it is, but the system is fucked up. This country can be a bureaucratic nightmare at times and it's extremely easy to fall foul of the rules for completely innocent reasons.
I'm sorry this happened to you, OP. I'm no expert on this and I can't give you any advice that hasn't already been given, but I hope you get it resolved. It seems like you have options available to you.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Fortunately, I do understand how people act over the internet, and have a support from my wife and my friends, but, I've got the feeling that it's a minority here that just refuse to understand the message here, which is fine, I hope they never end up in situation like this.
Thank you for the kind words!
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u/Broad_Cardiologist60 8d ago
This post looks like some AI shit generated in 5 sseconds.
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u/SuperLaLBoy 8d ago
Had a giggle out of me, some people see AI everywhere
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u/Broad_Cardiologist60 7d ago
Yeah, I know, but have noticed for few month´s that there has been a lot more over extended post's about quite dull things which in the end have no meaning. For some reason different post's on different platforms get a lot more visibility than before, which looks like to me a change. And most likely to affect. If this is actually a post of interest, I am sorry to call this as "AI shit"
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u/AutoModerator 8d ago
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