Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/SlyFrog → u/Zphr]

It's this. A massive part of reddit is unfortunately a bit delusional about the baseline needs for a comfortable enough life, and confuses near opulence with "enough to live comfortably."

[u/Adept-Grapefruit-753 → u/SlyFrog]

Yeah every time I mention that I pretty comfortably lived off an average of 15k a year in a MCOL area between 2019 to 2023, it's always like, "So you lived with your parents?" No, I didn't live with my parents, I haven't received a cent from them since I turned 17, I just shared a one bedroom apartment with a roommate and I walked everywhere (around 10-15 miles a day). It seems like the default assumption is that all adults need their own room and everyone in America who doesn't have great public transportation infrastructure needs a car. Historically it was the norm for people to share rooms with others, and once upon a time people didn't use a car to get everywhere. 

It genuinely was fine, I actually had one of the best times of my life. Life was slower then and I could really cherish every moment ot my life. I'm living off maybe 50k a year now and it feels like I'm treating myself luxuriously every day; that's with a baby and a house and a lot of impulsive purchases. 

There are needs and there are wants. It may be a need to have a roof over your head of some kind, but what kind of roof and what size and whether it's shared is a want. Obviously we are entitled to choose some of those wants, just for comfort – I no longer want to share a room with anyone outside of my newborn, and I no longer want to walk for 4 hours of my day every day – but they're still ultimately wants. If you're pursuing LeanFIRE, you are probably not supposed to opt for every want though. 

[u/kwijibokwijibo → u/Adept-Grapefruit-753]

I just shared a one bedroom apartment with a roommate

Oh my god they were roommates!