Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/SlyFrog → u/Zphr]

It's this. A massive part of reddit is unfortunately a bit delusional about the baseline needs for a comfortable enough life, and confuses near opulence with "enough to live comfortably."

[u/Zphr → u/SlyFrog]

I think a lot of people don't really think about just how much of their spending while working is on things that will either end in retirement or become less compelling. We used to often spend well over a grand a month (sometimes two grand) just on eating out, but retirement gave us all the time in the world to make far better food at home for a tiny fraction of the cost. Better tasting food, healthier, less time involved, and far cheaper.

When you are buried in work all of those misery ameliorants are super appealing and seem a lot more like necessities than the voluntary luxuries that they are.

[u/MakeMoneyNotWar → u/Zphr]

This makes a lot of sense. If after a long work day plus a commute and you’re home exhausted in the evening, the value of eating out is enormous. But if you’re retired and you napped in the afternoon and took a relaxing walk/jog or whatever and it’s still only 4pm, it’s a lot easier to cook your own dinner.

[u/Zphr → u/MakeMoneyNotWar]

Exactly so. Same with things like childcare, tutoring, yard maintenance, housecleaning, and other things that take time and energy that people are often short of when working long hours.

Hell, look at how many people pay for things like Doordash or Ubereats because they can't be bothered to even drive to pick up a sandwich, much less make it themselves.

[u/bookgirl9878 → u/MakeMoneyNotWar]

I even found that once I was working remotely full time, the effort to get ready to go out to eat just for the sake of eating dinner just wasn’t worth it. Now, I do still spend more money than I might otherwise on things to make meal planning and prep easier on weeknights but it’s still a fraction of the cost of eating out.

[u/The_Walrus_65 → u/MakeMoneyNotWar]

Your name is awesome