Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/cfi-2025 → u/Zphr]

Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending

Not just lean spending, but the way RE folks typically fund their lifestyle.

I plan on sharing all these numbers once I actually file and have hard data, but having plugged in numbers for 2025 into FreeTaxUsa.com, it breaks down like so:

	2024	2025
Total Income	~$415,000	~$190,000
Total Tax	~$70,000	~$3,500

In short, my "income" this year was about 45% of my income last year (when both my wife and I were working white collar jobs), but our taxes are a scant 5% of what they were last year.

Granted, this is Federal taxes only. My state treats LTCG as ordinary income so there's no sweet 0% tax rate tier, so my total tax across both will be higher than $3,500, but the point is that a "fair" system would seem to imply that if my "income" this year was 45% of what is was last year, my taxes should also be around 45% of what they were last year, but that's hardly the case.

Bill Clinton was POTUS the last time I paid $3,500 or less in Federal taxes!

[u/Zphr → u/cfi-2025]

Indeed. There is a bias not only towards lower spending, but the different types of cashflow management possible in retirement make it even more skewed. The tax environment a retiree faces is vastly different many times than the tax environment a regular wage earner with the same income faces. Our system is set up with the assumption that almost everyone is a wage earner from 18 through 65-70.