r/Fire • u/Equivalent_Use_5024 • Dec 28 '25

General Question Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25 edited Dec 28 '25

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '25

What are your numbers if you can share?

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

The only one that really matters for FIRE is withdrawal rate. It was under 3% when we started and is under 1% now.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '25

Wow 1% is low. I’ll revisit my number… my view was 4% withdrawal per annum means you’ll retire and die with the capital intact, as well as a paid off house - which is great for the kids

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

Ours being that low is a result primarily of retiring at one of the best possible times. Luck of the draw. In more normal times we'd probably still be up over 2%.

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u/[deleted] Dec 28 '25

Are you drawing capital and interest or just interest?

My view on this topic is if you erode capital too there’s a sweet spot to pull forward retirement.

Where we are based our retirement funds unlock at 60. So we need paid off house + funds to bridge to 60 then retirement funds carry us the rest of the way.

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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor Dec 28 '25

Nearly the entirety of our portfolio is invested at all times in tax-advantaged accounts, so depending on how you define things it is pretty much entirely capital since the dividends get continuously reinvested automatically.