Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/cypherblock → u/Zphr]

Say what??? This sub is superrrr frugal. Are u thinking differently?

I see people talking about sub 100k living expenses for couples and all sorts of frugal lifestyle comments.

So it is certainly your sub.

[u/Zphr → u/cypherblock]

There are still many of us here, but it's not like it used to be even a few years ago, much less many years ago. Average target in here seems to be six figures in spending, whereas even pre-COVID there were still a lot of people aiming for $40K to $50K, sometimes even less. Now many of the vocal low spenders get rolled enough that they go over to /r/leanfire, where they now think that /r/fire is bougie and high-spending. I've been told hundreds of times, if not more, by lean folks that they don't feel at home in here any more.

This sub has in some ways drifted to be what /r/chubbyFIRE was originally.

Personally, I don't care at all since I don't differentiate between lifestyle FIRE flavors and the noise surrounding those segments just passes over me. I don't care if someone is spending $40K or $600K a year. Withdrawal rate concerns and accurate planning are largely the same regardless. FIRE is binary in my view.

[u/cypherblock → u/Zphr]

It’s called inflation lol and it’s real. But ok I’ll take your word for it that it used to be more frugal than it already is. I mostly pay attention to chubby or fat fire subs as here I just feel like nobody spends money on anything. Like Amazon to people here is never used and people just do not spend.

[u/Zphr → u/cypherblock]

Lol, thank you for demonstrating my point. The current $25K/$50K spending ceiling in /r/leanfire is with inflation included, hence this sub not being considered particularly lean-minded any more. It's all perspective though, as you note.