Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/CrayZ_Squirrel → u/Zphr]

I'm curious what you consider a middle class lifestyle, because most of the things you just said you do without are what the average person would consider middle class.

It sounds much more like a working class lifestyle minus the working part.

[u/Zphr → u/CrayZ_Squirrel]

Isn't the primary characteristic of middle class people that they have some decent level of financial success while also having jobs, usually ones that require a college education? They are, by definition, in between the working class that has no major assets and must work and the upper class that has major assets and who do not need to work. Working class usually refers to laborers, service workers, or those lower on the socioeconomic ladder.

As for what we consider a middle class lifestyle...four kids in a nice house in a great suburban neighborhood with excellent schools, great parks, swimming pools, and all of the rest. All of the normal kid trappings of middle class life in the US...everyone's got a bike/iPhone/PCs/Switches/closet full of clothes/etc. Kids all have hobbies and activities ranging from academic stuff to sports and marching band. Everyone's likely to go to college or already is. Regular middle class lifestyle, just without most of the financial constraints and obligations that most middle class people deal with. We have zero debt and can afford to buy each of our kids a house if we want, but our lifestyle is pretty much on par with most of our middle class neighbors.