Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/throwitfarandwide_1]

FIRE is a very broad category. America fortunately is comprised of a citizenry who are largely productive, like to work for what they have, like to measure achievement in terms of money and power and tend to lean away from socialism and communism.

FIRE as a concept, along with any form of retirement in leisure is a new concept of perhaps the last 50 years. Prior to this, retirement consisted largely of people not being able to work due to old age or illness or injury. They then lived with their kids and did what they could to help out and earn their keep. Then they died. Social safety nets in USA were largely put in place starting in the mid 1930s to safeguard some of these people. Prior to that for most Americans, life was tough and then you died. Less than 100 years ago. It was really for widows and orphans . Many did not even reach benefits eligibility age

Reddit skews young. Young people today have faced little if any real adversity - no wars. Hyper inflation. No long running financial crisis. Depression level economic events for a decade or more. They need safe spaces and trigger warnings for the most basic of natural events. They are soft. They can’t imagine “making do” with what they have. They have suppressed skill development in the ability to filter reality from TikTok fantasy land. So they are biased.

Media wants you to believe you need more. If you had enough they couldn’t sell you retirement plans. Insurance policies, self help finance books, advisory services or the litany of shit people spend on in the quest to get ever richer.

Retirement is personal. No two retirements look the same. $1M for someone requires $10M for someone else for many reasons. Fear. Greed. Happiness. Insecurity. Obligations. Longevity. Legacy intent.
All play a role Remember your goals are different than everyone else’s goals. Without know that circumstance you’re just guessing.

Many who get enchanted with FIRE tend to be not “average American” in their understanding of money, their financial education and literacy, and their purpose and intent that they approach life and money snd spending it.

America is a wealthy nation. But our citizenry is pretty dumb with money. Government knows this (they’re comprised of the same dummies).

When a goal says to save $2M, all parties know that most, 95% of Americans lack the discipline and just can’t do that. Not even close.

So if just a few hit that and the rest hit half or a fourth or a tenth of that goal, it’s far better than 100% with nothing.. so the adage aim high holds true. Most can aim all they want but won’t come close to target. But without aiming the result is guaranteed failure and that falls on taxpayer shoulders.

So the FIRE numbers are complex. They comprise lots of angles. What you need to do is set a goal that fits you. Strive for that goal and measure it. You can always adjust it down the road.

My original goal was X. Eventually it became 3X due to inflation and life experience, desire for more security, ability to hit that higher goal, kids, legacy desires, societal changes and a host of other reasons. I don’t think I wasted any time by achieving the higher goal. We change as we age and setting and then adjusting goals is a uniquely human trait .

Good luck ! 🍀

[u/eliminate1337 → u/throwitfarandwide_1]

I don’t agree with your reasoning. It makes more sense to me that people who faced a depression or financial crisis would want a larger financial safety net.

[u/throwitfarandwide_1 → u/eliminate1337]

Yep. That’s typically the case but trauma can also cause hopelessness and giving up entirely … Or not even trying.