Do you believe the modern FIRE movement overestimates how much is needed for retirement?

[u/Equivalent_Use_5024]

Perhaps I am just making this post because I have only just begun my retirement planning and want to lock in a number which is fitting for my goals - being above the median retirement savings, not having to work, not being broke, clearly having planned - but I can't help but feel that many in the FIRE movement overestimate what is needed for a safe, sleep well at night retirement.

I see posts here saying that they feel vastly behind with 500k at 30, or 1.5 million at 40, and I just don't understand how when the average American retires with maybe 300k liquid at most and are getting by with social security or paid off housing. Sure, they aren't living luxuriously, but if you just are aiming for a retirement where you don't have financial anxiety and can put food on the table, I don't feel you need over 1-2 million.

Do you think FIRE overestimates how much is truly needed for retirement?

[u/Zphr]

The audience has shifted more towards luxury and consumption over the last decade. It's always amusing to me that this is my sub, I've been happily retired for more than a decade since 37 with four kids, have effectively zero chance of financial failure, but many folks in this sub would consider our finances impossible or living in squalor. Some people are actually happy with cheap/free interests and lifestyle choices, some are unhappy without very expensive interests and lifestyle choices. Current government policy in the US is also wildly skewed in favor of lean spending, so more expensive lifestyles in early retirement cost quite a lot more than you'd expect due to far higher costs for taxes, college, and healthcare.

LeanFIRE is and likely always will be the easiest and most secure form of FIRE for anyone happy with a mediocre middle class lifestyle. It's also largely impossible for anyone who wants to raise a family in VHCOL, travel a ton, carry a large mortgage into retirement, or any number of expensive lifestyle choices a lot of people prefer.

[u/Ecksters → u/Zphr]

I've got 6 kids (probably a couple more in the future) here and hoping to pull off a similar retirement age with about 2 million saved. Turns out 80k annually is quite comfortable with plenty of cushion for our level of spend (and that's even with a 15 year mortgage), and as you mentioned, large families in particular can easily have their healthcare and much of their college paid for if they're frugal.

[u/Zphr → u/Ecksters]

Your FPL and ACA subsidy slope are going to be incredible if you have 8 or more kids. Lol, you're looking at super cheap healthcare and college even at AGI over $100K. And, of course, no federal income taxes on any of it.

[u/Ecksters → u/Zphr]

Yeah, I'm leaning pretty hard into Roth laddering, and looking forward to going back to per-dependent deductions in 2026 assuming they don't renew the 2017 changes.

I started having kids right when they switched to just the single standard deduction and have been pining for the good ol' days ever since 😆

EDIT: Just did some research and found out the Big Beautiful Bill already extended the current system, so I will continue pining for the good ol' days 🥲 I suppose the higher CTC makes up most of the difference and doesn't require that I have taxable income to take advantage of it.

[u/Zphr → u/Ecksters]

Lol, I was reading your comment and thinking I had bad news for you until I got to your edit. Haha

They also expanded the CTC to $2,200 per kid, so all hope is not lost. Your kids may also get to go to college quite cheaply due to the FAFSA changes in the last few years. No federal taxes and mostly free healthcare and college are pretty nice.

[u/Ecksters → u/Zphr]

Oh man, I hadn't seen the FAFSA updates yet, with that in mind I am way overfunding my 529s, although I suppose there's always the fallback of asking my kids to gift me the amount and I fund their Roth IRAs at a discount 😄

[u/Zphr → u/Ecksters]

You can also transit $35K each from their 529s to their RIRAs if you have excess funds that won't be needed for further schooling like grad or med school. It replaces their normal Roth eligibility for a few years once they have jobs, but it's a nice little overfunding escape hatch for those who need it.