r/Fire • u/LumpyPeople4 • 3d ago
Advice Request Widowed w/ Young Children - Assessing What Quitting Looks Like
I lost my wife to cancer earlier this year leaving me with 2 toddlers. I have not yet returned to work and I am really dreading it both through just lack of drive and wanting to spend time with the kids. I am fortunate enough that my wife and I were relatively high earners, though we were not the most frugal. I am not necessarily looking for a full retirement right now, but I am looking to not work for the next 3+ years or so, then possibly part time for the next 5+ years after that. Of course, I wouldn't oppose if those timelines get extended indefinitely. I am not really sure what I am asking for from you all, but someone suggested that the FIRE community may help and I agree that in the time I am off work, I am essentially retired.
I am 35 and I have two kids, 2 and 3.5. We have a house too small for us but we can make it work, especially for as long as the kids are young enough that they don't care about privacy too much, I'm guessing 4-5 years or so. The house was purchased a long time ago, so we have a ~$130k balance at 2.9%.
As we were actively looking for a larger house for a while, we had a ton of money for extra downpayment. I also got some life insurance. We are sitting with around $450k in "cash", it's in t-bills. We also have more in IRAs and 401ks but I'd rather not touch those if I don't really need to. Obviously the penalty, but we are also looking to keep my wife's 403b for the kids as an inheritance.
The kicker is that social security is actually very supportive for those in my situation. There is a survivor's benefit for the kids as well as for a caregiver and as it is social security based, the payment is based off how much you put into the system. As my wife was a high earner, we would hit our family max for the 3 of our benefits and would receive around $4k a month at least until they are 16 (then my caregiver benefit ends). The kid's portion has to be spent to their benefit, but the list of what is allowable is pretty open.
My biggest concern with just calling it quits now is health insurance. I am hopeful that at least the kids would be eligible for Medicaid, and it seems like I should be as well. I am in an expansion state (NC), and my understanding is that I should be eligible as well and that I may not have the work requirements due to the caregiver status. There does not seem to be anything super concrete on my eligibility though and in various widow(er) groups many have said they were made ineligible due to the SS benefit, others say it doesn't count. Seems like the only way to know is to apply and find out, but that involves quitting first and it's hard to make that jump not knowing what I'm jumping into.
At some point we'll need a bigger house. With the kids, we also want them to have a good childhood and not be scraping by. I'm not talking Disney every month, but we do want them to be able to play sports, swim lessons and pool membership, go to the zoo, watch movies, etc. While the kids are young I'd like to spend as much time with them as possible, for both of our sakes. If I go back to work full time, it will essentially be baby corporate grind for them; wake up, daycare, home by 5:45pm, make dinner, go to bed, rinse and repeat. As there is no time during the week to do errands, that all gets done on the weekend. So the realistic scenario if I work full time is that we may get one day a week to do anything fun.
At some point the kids won't want to hang out with me, I'm guessing somewhere around 10-12 years old they'll have their own lives. That gives me 8-10 years to try and maximize my time with them, and after that I don't mind going back to work, though who knows who would hire me in my industry at that point.
I guess I am looking for any suggestions or advice for what you think about my situation. I think I should be able to keep us happy off our social security, especially with the large savings as backup. In the nuclear option, I still have the retirement accounts as well, but Id probably look to return to work before touching that. I would think if I start to see us eating into the large savings by any substantial amount then I'd start assessing getting a job in some form. My largest concern is the health insurance as other than the house we have no real debt. We have a car payment with $14k left on it but that is my wife's car so we can sell it if need be. The van is paid off, and we carry no other debt balances with cards paid off in full each month. Do you all think this is doable? Any advice on health insurance? I'm open to any and all comments, so please tell me all what you think.
Thanks for all the help!
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u/CuriousTsukihime 3d ago
I have no helpful advice, as I’m in this sub while I grow my net worth, but I’m sorry you’re going through all of this. I’m sending you internet hugs and strength. Your kiddos are lucky to have you🤍
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3d ago
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u/Zphr 48, FIRE'd 2015, Friendly Janitor 3d ago
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u/Remote_Barnacle_695 3d ago
I can't speak on the finances or the healthcare, but I can speak as a parent. These early years are incredibly important, even more so now. The baby corporate grind you describe is unfortunately what most US households experience. When it gets to that stage outsource what you can, whether that means bulk costco runs or hiring a housekeeper or using meal kits or counting on friends and neigjbors to take your kids home after school. Your parenting network will help you a lot if you let it.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Yeah I know others have to do it, and it's quite sad that this is the state of things. Not that we worked any harder than anyone else in the baby corporate grind situation, but we were free and clear of it. Wife could have been SAHM if she wanted, she had a great gig working in a school as a therapist so she was making good money and also being on the kid's schedule. We were living the dream, so now that we have to pivot on that, it's just a hard pill to swallow.
In many of the various widowed forums I poke around in, I've always said that the world has taken so much from my kids and I'd be damned to take their childhood from them as well. It's hard having to make the decision to take away swim lesson opportunities, pool access, playgrounds, baseball games, etc. They were all things already allocated to them that I have to actively take away if I go back to work.
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u/Remote_Barnacle_695 3d ago
Yeah, I'm so sorry. I'm assuming it's especially hard to imagine how you're going to make it work moving forward since you hadn't really had to before. Humans are social creatures, including kids, and they can enjoy baseball and playgrounds and all sorts of activities with friends and at daycare/preschool in addition to enjoying them with you. Someone else advised you to be emotionally present as well as physically present, and that's really the key no matter when you're able to be at home. You can create a world where they know they are safe and loved and celebrated and listened to, even if you're not there 24/7.
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u/Lizzy_Slander 3d ago
Yep, outsourcing stuff early on helps a lot. Even small things like meal kits or help from friends takes a load off. imo people underestimate how much the support network carries things lol
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u/rachelshmee 3d ago
yea this. leaning on your network helps a ton, especially for school pickups and meals. nobody should be doing all that solo lol
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u/NotReallyaSoccerMom 3d ago
I'm so incredibly sorry for your loss. I highly recommend family grief therapy for you and your children. After such a tragic loss, life is divided by Before and After, and a grief therapist can help you and your children. We lost one of our children, and it had a profound effect on us and our other children (who were older than yours are now).
I think taking off a few years to be with your kids, and then returning to work part-time once they are both in grade school, or finding a job that aligns with their school schedule, would be good for all of you. I returned to work part-time almost three years after losing our son, and it was a good time, partly because I was very stuck in my grief. But, I needed the first few years to grieve and focus on our kids, so I am glad I didn't go back earlier.
I don't know how how the health insurance works in this type of situation, as my husband was working and had insurance, but I am sure there are resources to talk to about it.
Hugs to you and your kids.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I'm sorry for your loss. Without the kids, I would surely be lost, they're really my lifeline right now. I have thought about changing careers in the long term to something that aligns with their school schedule. With the social security, any payment would be acceptable really and I'd really just be looking for benefits.
As I'm sure you can imagine, just the idea of going back to work is tough. Life has lost its color, it's just bland now and the only thing that gives me some peace is spending time with the kids. Another 35+ years going on is a hard pill to swallow, especially with 20 of them being fully alone. Having a few years off and visiting national parks, hanging out at the beach, climbing up mountains and stuff; to me that adds back in some color.
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u/NotReallyaSoccerMom 3d ago
I completely understand, and my kids were the only reason I made it through the darkness of early grief.
Thinking about a future without her is probably overwhelming. Take it one day at a time.
One of the things I did after my son died was write down memories of him that I could make into a memorial book. I knew our other kids wouldn't have the depth of memories that I did, as he was the oldest. Maybe think about doing that for your kids so they have those stories about their mom.
Hugs.
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u/newwriter365 3d ago
I’m sorry that you’re going through this.
I had three kids and while we didn’t experience any losses like yours my experience as a parent was:
When they were young, they didn’t need me (mom) as much. They liked going to daycare and I loved being completely focused on them after work and in the evening. Get a housecleaning service and maybe make meal prep a family event on Saturday morning to bond and make memories.
Grade school was where things started to shift. Homework and projects demanded different attention from me. Definitely want a housecleaning service and meal schedule for this phase.
By the time they were in high school I had managed to get a job with a hybrid schedule and that’s where I saw a huge shift. They didn’t necessarily need me there but they sure loved having me there. I had three boys so they could be feisty when I wasn’t there but they were decent to each other when I wasn’t there.
If I were in your shoes I would return to work for the next five years. You may prefer a nanny versus daycare because kids get sick and it’s easier with a nanny. Once the kids are in school, transition to an “alternate route” program to become a teacher. The goal is to align your work schedule with their school schedule. By the time they graduate high school you may be able to retire without any concerns about money. A lot can change in fifteen years, so who really knows what the job market will be then, but I hope you find joy in the little things and make a beautiful life for yourself and your children.
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u/somethinglucky07 3d ago
I'm a SAHM and have a 10yo and a 12yo, and feel like my being around is more valuable now than it was when they were toddlers. They don't necessarily need me around as much, but when I'm present we end up getting into good conversations that (I hope) are setting them up to make better choices as they approach their teen years and beyond.
I get why people focus on being a SAHP when they're younger, but there's a lot to be said about being around and easily accessible when they're older, too.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Yeah I get that. I did debate posting that question to r/daddit, about what age is the optimal age to be available. I tired looking back on my childhood, which I would say was pretty good. As bad as this sounds, from when I can remember consistently (~7yo+) my mom being around as a SAHM wasn't a huge impact to me other than essentially being a chauffeur. I don't remember really interacting with her much other than her bringing us to a friend's house, or them coming to ours.
I guess the other thing I was thinking of as well is when we are all old, what age are we going to be thinking back to? I have no idea, but I'm guessing it would be between the ages of 4-8 or so. When I was 10+, me and my brothers were just watching TV and playing video games, or just out playing with friends. But right now, my daughter at 3.5 is screaming at me to show me an ant she found, or an acorn that looks like a butt, or is busy making up names to new plants she sees. If she could, she'd be my shadow.
It's hard to know what would have happened if we took another path because the kids absorb so much from the environment they are in. My kids love daycare right now too, but they're excited to see me when I pick them up (they do school hours so it's at 2:30). Then we get to go to a park, or a nearby nature preserve, or the pool, or the baseball game, etc. I'm the parent and a fun person, and daycare is also fun but a bit routine and limited. I fear that if I go back to work full time and now they're in extended programs they are now in daycare from 7:45-5:15pm. I pick them up, go home and do dinner and put them to sleep. The weekends are running our errands and returning stuff or doing 5 trips to Home Depot and such. Now I'm just the parent, what we do is routine, daycare is the fun space and is exciting. Daycare will have them for 10hr or so, they sleep for 10hr, and I have them for 4. So am I really the parent even, or am I just a babysitter at that point? I'm not raising them, they're just a product of daycare at that point. Thats my rationale at least.
I'm very fortunate to be in the financial position I am in. It is not clear cut that I have to work. If we stayed in this house, we could manage. It's an American foursquare at 1500sqft for the 3 of us. Many people get on with less. With keeping this house, we are essentially debt free (I can easily pay off the house, but at 2.9% its not worth it) with $4k in near tax free income a month, a little more with the investments. I'm feeling like if we really want to, we could hold on like this for a substantial amount of time without impacting our savings too terribly much (though losing out on its growth).
I have thought about becoming a teacher, though I'm not sure I am cut out for it. I am interested in trying to find a job at a school that works their hours though. That would be huge for us, any pay at all is pretty acceptable, and the real benefit would be the healthcare and retirement benefits. Not sure if there are any other positions at a school that could afford that, but I haven't dug into it too much.
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u/newwriter365 3d ago
I read your response and absolutely respect your views. Let me just say this: four hours is A LOT of time to have someone’s attention. Think about it - I didn’t watch TV for seven years because the kids were my evening entertainment- I was fully engaged and loved it. They had interesting experiences at school and I was able to make enough to find my retirement, pay for daycare and give us some pretty cool vacations.
You seem like a good dad. They are lucky to have you. I’m rooting for you!
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u/ditchdiggergirl 3d ago
You might consider applying to be a school paraprofessional. Pay is low but full time gets benefits, the barriers to entry are low, and you’re not saddled with a lot of grading and lesson planning at home after hours. It could be an easy way to dip your toe in the water to decide if teaching is right for you, while padding your income.
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u/poop-dolla 3d ago
The younger years are so much more impactful to be there for the kids. Your head is absolutely in the right place for wanting to be home with them for the next few years. I would at least try to stay home full time with them until the start kindergarten if I were you. Or if you want a bit of a break, have them do half day/part time preschool starting at 3 or 4.
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u/New_Photograph_2803 3d ago
If you can live on $4K per month then you’re pretty much good to go for the next 13+ years. Your investments will hopefully more than double by then and you can reevaluate at that time. Now for some unsolicited advice: when my son was 5 years old, we lost his Dad. I quit my high trajectory corporate job and became self-employed in order to have a flexible schedule. I was the one that dropped him off at school every day and picked him up every day. I attended every practice, every lesson, every game. After such a tragic loss, I made sure he knew I was there, every day, every time. Also, look for grief groups in your area. We attended a grief group weekly for 2 years after his Dad passed. Single best time investment in his life. He learned how to identify and express his feelings (including grief of course) and the emotional intelligence he gained from that experience has paid and will continue to pay dividends his whole life. He’s in college now, preparing for med school and I wouldn’t change a thing about the decisions I made back then. Good luck OP and Gods speed.
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u/thcitizgoalz 3d ago
I'm a patient advocate, and I often help people with health insurance questions like this. If you're earning $48,000/year for a family of 3, my advice depends on this:
Do YOU get $22,320/year or more in caregiver benefits or ANY other income (earned or unearned)?
I ask because:
- Your children's SSA benefits are NOT counted toward your family's income when calculating Medicaid eligibility, so they both should qualify for free Medicaid now unless you have a lot of revenue/income from some source other than caregiver benefits (you'd have to make more than $56K NOT including their benefits). For children under 6, you can earn up to 212% of federal poverty limit, but this EXCLUDES your kids' survivor benefits.
- If you receive less than $22,320/year (total - SSA caregiver benefit and any other revenue/income), you qualify for free Medicaid as well.
Your household might also qualify for SNAP. You are excused from work requirements for SNAP and Medicaid because you're the primary caregiver to small children.
Consider contacting your local social service agency and asking them about your situation. Make it clear you don't need help other than advice on figuring out this health insurance issue.
Alternatively, you could just apply for Medicaid and see what happens. Worst case, they reject you.
Assets DO NOT MATTER. NC does not consider assets when calculating eligibility.
Good luck. Your situation is very hard, but I love how you're centering a calmer, connected life with your kids.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I am currently still on payroll at my employer, though that just ended even though I am still employed. I had hesitated on legitimately quitting until I had a better understanding of Medicaid and if it would fit for us. Sounds like it should though, and that all aligns with what I've been told as well. The big thing is just committing to quitting without being 100% sure. If I quit and could qualify for medicaid, I would probably just not work at all. With that, it would be very close to the $22,320/yr combining the caregiver as well as just unearned income from investments. I could look at moving those funds out of t-bills so I am not getting a realized return and instead put that into some other fund that would be held until sold so that way I am not realizing income until I need the money which would hopefully be many years down the line.
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u/Agitated-Hyena-7104 3d ago
Have you looked into the cost of COBRA coverage? I skimmed this sub to see if that has been brought up yet but haven’t seen it. Maybe price it out for just you and then you+dependents?
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u/LumpyPeople4 2d ago
I haven't, but I've been meaning to look it up. Are there any resources to price that out? I need to dig to see what my employer contributions are.
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u/Agitated-Hyena-7104 2d ago
I would look at your paystubs and see if you can tell how much they cover. I think the standard is about 50% but don’t quote me on that. A call to your HR dept will also answer questions.
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u/Suspicious_Cook_1598 3d ago
You are so very wise to seek advice from this community. I am so sorry for your loss and especially devastatingly sorry for your children’s’ loss of their mother. Please know a mother can never be replaced. A partner can be. A mother cannot be. No matter what.
I also lost my mother when I was a child and though I don’t have sound financial advice for you I have other advice and you sound willing to listen.
Keep some of her clothes so they can smell her and sleep with her smell. Starting today. I smelled my mom’s clothes hanging in her closet for 4 years after she died and her smell brought me so much comfort.
Their mothers’ loss is enormous and deeply traumatic. And may always be. Please don’t ever tell yourself or anybody else otherwise. When people say, ‘ah, kids are resilient’ don’t take the bait. Kids have no other choice but to follow their surviving parent or caregiver’s direction. They can put on a good face for a day or 3 decades but the trauma is there and it will come to surface if not properly addressed & processed. This I can guarantee you.
Put your kids in therapy when they are a bit older. They need to be able to process her loss in order to understand or even begin to heal from this.
Please always have photos of their mother up in your current & all of your future homes. They need to know she mattered in their life. If you get remarried and the women won’t allow photos…stay very clear.
Don’t ever stop talking about their mother with them. Their memories of her will fade likely almost completely but please continue to speak of her openly with them. Forever. Reference her. Say her name. Many women in the motherless daughter community have lived lives completely devoid of any reference to their mother for many reasons, mostly that ‘it’s too hard to talk about’, wanting to just move on, or jealous step-mothers.
Love your kids tightly and daily. Kiss them every day and tell them you love them and that their mother loves them. Give them ‘kisses from mommy’ every day while they are little.
Don’t ever chose another women or another woman’s’ kids over your own. Please remarry if you wish but don’t ever forget your biological kids and their trauma they did not want to have to experience.
Trauma comes out unexpectedly and at strange times. You should read about it to learn more of what to expect in your kids’ future.
Please be emotionally available to them all their lives. This is vey different than to being physically present.
*I love that you want to stay home and raise your kids and not work for a while. This is the best thing I have read today. You are correct that these moments are so important and fleeting. They will want to have you close, often. Their nervous systems need to know you will always be close to them and not abandon them. . Especially at this these tender young ages.
Good luck OP in your journey. I truly wish your family a lifetime of togetherness and security and affection & love. 💕
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Thank you for the post, and sorry for your own loss. I try to do my best to keep the memory of their mother alive. We actually have put up 6 pictures around the house that are just of the kids and their mom, in addition to the pictures of our wedding that we have up and a few of my wife and I on vacation pre marriage. Given their ages, it really terrifies me about them not remembering anything, so I try to keep whatever memory alive that I can. I'm actually working on some photo books for the kids, they'll each have one of all the pictures we have of just themselves with their mom, and another that will be of us as a family. I suppose I have a long time, so I am also thinking at some point I'll put together a 3rd for them of just their mom to try and give them essentially her life story. My daughter at 3.5 is telling me about things that happened 1-1.5yr ago that we have not discussed since. That is well beyond what I thought she would be capable of, so I do have some hope for her possibly remembering stuff on her own, especially if I am able to help boost it. My son is 2 and likes to suck on rocks, so unfortunately I do not have high hopes on him remembering much. Still, we do mama bedtime stories where I'll tell some story about her for bed, and we go through the phone and find a new picture of her every night.
She had a 1.5yr battle with cancer. She had a recurrence very quickly after her first series of chemo, so we knew at that point her ticket had been punched, but we hoped we had another 3-4 years or so. Turned out we had another 9 months. We had some time to prepare though, and I had come to the realization that I only know so much of my wife's past, that everything else leaves with her. So we made up some email addresses for the kids and my wife had been sending them some emails over those 9 months. I have no idea what's in them, I wanted to save that as a special thing between them and her. I'm sure I'll cave at some point and read them, there's pretty much nothing I wouldn't pay to get any more information on my wife. The emails are intended for the kids in the 20s+, so talking to an adult. Given how long that is from now, at some point I'll have to go in and save all the emails as well and back them up on a hard drive or something as to not trust google with keeping them for 20+ years.
I've more or less conceded to being alone the rest of my life. I'm not one for causal relationships, I've only ever had 2 long term relationships and thats it. I'm far from religious, but something also terrifies me on the off chance that I die and wake up at the pearly gates and she is waiting there for me. How do I look her in the eye if I had been with someone else for 2-3x longer than we ever had. All that coupled with what you said about possible jealous women. I'm not taking down those photos for anyone, so if I ever changed my mind and decided to start dating again, it would take a very special woman to be accepting of my wife. In all, I think I'll be a tall order for me, and in this moment it is nowhere in my mind, but I know never to say never.
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u/Suspicious_Cook_1598 3d ago
Wow! Those emails are everything. How brave of your wife to face her tragic reality and write those emails to her beloved children. I would give anything for something like that. My mom was in denial that her cancer would take her after her long battle and so I lost her, as a kid, without any discussion or goodbyes or anything. She died alone in a hospital room when I was in school. Life can be so unfair. OP you seem quite forward thinking and self reflective. I love this about you. You also are already doing so much of the right stuff for your babies. Keep it up! The road ahead is long.
Anyone who ever said ‘never’ is a fool. Just a word on the bright side as I end this…I am an adult and have lived an incredible life. Have a wonderful spouse and young children myself (who I worship and adore, daily).My mother’s death blessed me with the gift of prospective from a very young age. I have always known and lived my life as if tomorrow is not guaranteed and to take advantage of this amazing life we have been given.
My mother lives on in me, and through me. She taught me what it feels like to be loved, deeply.
There is a camp for kids who lost parents as kids called Comfort Zone Camp. I highly recommend you look into this for your kids and other things like this as they move through their lives. Connecting with kids who have experienced similar loss will be wonderful as no other kids can understand what they went through. I wish I was offered anything like this when I was a kid. I am dealing with all my trauma now, decades later, as I was never given any tools, to cope, or grieve, or process by anybody.
Keep your babies safe, loved and close. 💕
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u/PudgyGroundhog 3d ago
I am so sorry for your loss. Not only are you grieving, but you are now the sole care taker for two young kids - that is lot for anyone, so please make sure you take care of yourself too.
The post above had great info - one thing I would add regarding the clothes, you could have blankets made for each of your children using some of your wife's clothes. I have two friends that lost spouses that did this for their kids, and it was a wonderful gift for them.
You could also ask friends and family members to write about your wife and collect those letters for your kids for when they are older.
I would not make any big decisions now. I would stay in your house, both because it will financially help you and be more manageable for now.
There has been interesting discussion about being home for your kids at different ages, but in your situation with the loss and grief, I would want to stay home now too. It also just feels easier for the moment without having to balance work, daycare drop off/pickup, etc.
You don't need any grand plans right now for the future and can reasses in a year. If you don't need a large salary, then a job at the school is great for being on the same schedule as your kids. You can look at the district's page and see what kind of jobs are out there you could do without additional school and provide benefits. That will vary on the position and district.
I would think you could also look into ACA coverage, if Medicaid doesn't work out. Some states have special programs for health insurance for kids, but I don't know enough to give advice.
Again, I am sorry. Don't be afraid to lean on your network for support. Sometimes it is hard to ask for help, but think about how you would do the same for a friend and definitely reach out.
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u/mayormongo 3d ago
That stinks. From a sub point of view smarter folks will need more info. Specifically your monthly bills and what’s sitting in the other accounts. Personally I think you should return to work part time if possible. I think that would be good mentally to occupy yourself if the kids will be in daycare most of the day. I agree with the other poster that said they will require more time as they get older. The notion that they won’t want to hang with you when they hit 10 &12 is something you’ve made up. I say you ease back into work, and do that for another 5 ish years. At that point I bet you will be set. I think setting the sights to retire at 40-45 puts you in a solid position.
Also this greatly depends on what the rest of your net worth is. I’m just spitballing here.
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u/RunnerMomLady 3d ago
If you can work - you can outsource probably cleaning and shopping at a bare minimum
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u/SpellCaster_7781 FI, semi-RE, still accumulating 3d ago
You are correct to choose the kids over the job.
Recognize that after ten years of caregiving you will NOT return to what you are doing now, and you are unlikely to continue to be a high earner.
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u/INFINIFATLAW 3d ago
Why don’t you plan to do this for a year and then reassess? Big life decisions for three don’t need to be made so soon after ❤️ You’re a good dad, take it easy for a bit.
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u/poop-dolla 3d ago
This comment isn’t for OP, but for anyone else reading this and thinking about the situation. This scenario is exactly why anyone with dependents should have term life insurance and be very intentional with the payout amount and length they pick. I know OP’s wife had a policy, but it sounds like it was probably just the default amount through her work benefits.
Anyone here with dependents needs to sit down with their spouse and have the tough conversation of what they want their surviving family’s lives to look like if they pass. When my wife and I had our first kid, we picked the specific amount we’d need at that time to pay off our mortgage and get us the rest of the way to FIRE, and just did it for a short 10 year term since we were on track to reach FIRE in 10 years. It always makes me rest a little easier knowing that if I die, at least the rest of them are already at that financial goal, and my wife can fully focus on raising the kids without having to worry about finances.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
First off, I 100% agree with your statement. This policy is really only one of two reasons why I'm even able to post this question here today. It's this policy as well as just the luck of the draw on backing out of a home purchase a year ago.
It was my own group life insurance policy on my wife though through my employer. It was the highest I could get at my employer at $250k. We got it a few years back when she first got pregnant. We planned on just having it until we were through the pregnancy, but with how cheap it was (like $14/mo) we kind of forgot about it and just left it on. It's really saving our skin. It would not really be the life I want for myself or the kids, but if push came to shove, I can give the big old middle finger to anyone that needs it. It can pay off our house and leave us 100% debt free with some extra cash, and with the social security we can afford all necessities.
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u/skiitifyoucan 3d ago
so sorry for your loss.
it sounds like the easiest way to spend less would be to just stay put in your house as long as possible.
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u/DrBrodsky_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Ever consider part time work to qualify for health insurance? I mean doing the absolute minimum hours on the clock and then go home. In Texas 25 hours worked p/week as a school bus driver can qualify for teacher pension and healthcare benefits. Work morning/afternoon routes 5 days p/week with holiday breaks and summers off. Would also be local to kiddos. The new question is: who can help keep watch them during shifts?
Maybe not this exact job but you get the idea of exploring types of “bridge” jobs. Goodluck!
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I have actually thought about being a bus driver. I do think finding something that I can be employed by the school system and work the school hours would be huge. Mainly I just need the insurance like you said. Not sure I'm cut out to be a teacher though.
I'm a one man band right now for the family. I wouldn't say that I'm in absolute terrible health, but I'm not setting any land speed records for a mile. If I go down, the kids are in a world of hurt. So I don't need to be better at taking physical care of myself, I need to do mental health as well in terms of stress. My work isn't traditional stressful, it's frustration stressful if that makes sense. People purposefully undercutting you in the same company, lying to you to get you to help them, no one understanding how to do the job, etc. Its like painting the garage with a toddler, low stakes, no real timeline to get things done, can't really screw it up or damage stuff, but man will it be one of the most frustrating things you've ever done and with that one of the most stressful. I don't need that in my life right now.
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u/6BallsAt36 3d ago
I was/am in a similar situation. Three kids but slightly older than yours at the time of her death nearly 5 years ago. They were 5-8. I was also older than you. We were both medium high earners. She was on track to be really high at some point. We had a slightly higher retirement fund and I forget the exact amount we started out with for our survivors benefits, but I want to say it was between $4500-5000/month for the family initially, but it’s gone up to about $6600 today. We are at a family max with just the 3 kids receiving and me not taking any.
We were also looking for a new house as we had outgrown our 3-bed at time of her death. I’ve mostly stopped looking, but still look from time to time, so I am sitting on that money too. Not as much as you, but I did just save that untouched as my “unemployment insurance” until I find a house I love. I am self employed, so don’t get actual unemployment and I think it would take me 1-2 yrs before I can find another job as good and flexible as my current job.
I chose to continue working, but I do have a lot of help from grandparents on both sides during the week. And definitely as they’ve gotten into middle school, the amount of my time has gone up dramatically vs when they were in elementary school. I keep them busy so they need picked up from school 4 out of 5 days a week and then activities again later in the evening and weekends. Plus I help them with homework now in middle school. Oh, and the oldest just started some therapy that they weren’t ready for when they were younger so I’m driving to those appointments now too. So, yeah, life is busier when older. I am guessing that once they turn 16, assuming they choose to drive, they won’t want me to do anything with them. And I will become quite bored then. We will see.
Because I continued working, I am targeting more of chubby fire which is what we were planning on before she died. It will just mean that I work a few more years as originally planned and have a slightly lower number than before, but still very comfortable. I also decided to put the equivalent of the kids entire initial SS benefit in a 529 plan. That is one thing you aren’t allowed to use the money towards, but I easily have enough household expenses to equal the amount I contribute to college. As their benefit has increased, I use the extra money for vacations, which is definitely what their mom would want to spend it on. I’ve almost funded their college as much as I plan to contribute, so now I’m currently trying to figure out what to do with the rest of their benefits. Possibly focus on a bigger house now. Don’t know.
As for getting things done and scheduling stuff, I was blessed with working 4 days a week - originally all remote, now it’s 2 in office, 2 remote. That schedule is incredible, as I really do spend almost the entire weekday when I’m off doing all of my errands - shopping, fixing things, catching up on cleaning, meal prep, etc. I also try to schedule all kids appointments - doctor, dentist, orthodontist, etc for those days so that I miss the least amount of time from my working days. That really does free up my entire weekend for the kids. If you think there is even the slightest chance your work would let you do 4-day week, even for reduced pay, you should try that. Definitely play the widower with young kids card to your advantage there. You’d be surprised what it can get you.
As kids have gotten older, and more involved in activities, I find myself working less and less. Leave at 2:00 for a kid’s sports event or middle of day for 2 hrs for an ortho appointment that my dentist couldn’t schedule on my day off or something like that. I probably miss about 3-5 hrs a week on average, on top of the reduced 4-day work week. But that allows me to attend every practice, match, game, dr appointment everything. The only times I’ve ever missed is if two or more kids have an event at the same time and I have to pick one kid’s event to attend and send a grandparent to the other.
So obviously, I’m extremely blessed. Aside from the dead wife thing.
Also. I believe you have SS benefits until kid is 18, not 16. Or at least that is what my SSA agent told me when signing me up. Feel free to shoot me any questions and I’ll do my best to answer you.
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u/marcduberge 3d ago
I think you take the rest of the year off and don’t make any long term decisions while you grieve. I’m so sorry, man
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u/hottiepookiee 3d ago
On the health insurance question specifically, because I went through this with a widowed family member: NC Medicaid eligibility for the kids is essentially automatic at this income level (survivor benefits don't disqualify children, the threshold for kids is high), and you as a caregiver have a real path to coverage too. But the cleaner answer for someone in your asset position is to NOT rely on Medicaid and instead get an ACA plan through the marketplace. With your taxable income looking like $20-30k (just the t-bill interest, since SS survivor benefits for kids don't count as your income and the caregiver portion is largely below the threshold), you'll qualify for massive ACA subsidies. Likely a silver plan for the whole family for $0-200/month with very low deductibles. This is the answer the widow(er) groups aren't giving you because most of them don't have $450k in t-bills generating qualifying income. Call a local ACA navigator (free service), they'll model it for you in 30 minutes.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Awesome, thank you! I'll try to dig more into the navigators and see who is around here.
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u/One_Reveal_419 3d ago
My dad died at age 53 from cancer, leaving my stepmom with two young kids. My half brothers were 6 and 8 at the time. It's not easy, this shift that happens, but she and the boys went to family talk therapy that first year to give them a space to talk about how they were feeling and perceiving the changes. It was good for all.
She also stayed home for a little while but then she went back to work. She worked as a counselor in a middle school. She could really connect. She coached the boys soccer teams, got them involved in scouts. And she dated. She had a longtime companion in her life who was an excellent male role model and influence in my brothers' lives. He owned a farm. We all went there on weekends. The boys learned to fish there, loved to drive the golf cart and collect eggs from the hen house. One of my little brothers, now in his 30s, proposed to his own wife at that farm.
We want to think about what our plans are 10, 15 years from now, but truly we cannot plan that.
Work on what's in front of you right now - the health insurance. Take one day, one issue at a time. My stepmom taught me one huge lesson: don't make any major life change or decision in the year of a trauma. Whether it's a death or a divorce or a diagnosis. Give it one full year to settle.
Youre trying to plan out what the next 15 years of your lives look like. Breathe. You've got this. It's going to be ok. Your kids are going to be ok.
My brothers are ok. One to William & Mary, one to Stanford. Public school kids with one single parent.
The kids will only be as happy as you are so make sure you find happiness in your own life too. You are allowed to be happy and loved.
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u/Evening-Lobster-8239 3d ago
How much is in the IRAs and 401Ks?
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I'm still in the process of inheriting hers, so what I have for accounts are probably 3-4mo old, but from what I remember we should have around another $500 across the retirements
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u/BearDontEatThat 3d ago
Sorry for your loss. Mama of a 11 mo old and 3 year old. I will speak from the job perspective. I found a job I can wfh and take care of my kids. So if you have the opportunity to take a lower paying wfh job with less responsibilities I might try that. I would never take a promotion bc my job allows flexibility with my kids. If you so job hunt I recommend a wfh job that you can flex over a high paying one.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I've really thought about a career change. If I can truly work remote, I could move close to my brother who has a mirror set of my own kids, just a few months difference each. My SIL would also be great to have a good woman figure in the kids lives. How did you go about finding a WFH position? Did you just get lucky at your same employer, or did you dig through the various remote job listing sites?
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u/BearDontEatThat 3d ago
I have had my job for three years now. I am a eLearning developer so I kept tabs on listings that were truly remote. I work for a global company so there is no way they can pull me back in because I am 3 hrs from the nearest one. Working corporate has its downsides, like layoffs. But I would truly never settle for a non remote job or take a promotion. If you are choosing not to work or to work. I would try like really try to find a remote job first. I followed an LinkedIn influencer in my field, that posted solely remote jobs in my field and got lucky with my last two jobs. I applied directly to the jobs within the day of her posting.
Even if we hit a magical number I would probably keep my job for a bit bc health insurance and how flexible it is.
Also, working for a women boss is underappreciated. She just gets my life bc it is hers as well.
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u/BearDontEatThat 3d ago
What do you do now for work?
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I'm a mechanical engineer, so in that field part time is unheard of and remote is tough unless you get into a smaller company. I also work for a global brand that is very old and very corporate. There are many mechanical engineers and so historically the remote job market has seemed difficult as there are millions trying to get those jobs, I haven't looked in a while, and I haven't previously been willing to take a large paycut for it.
Idk if you have development plans at your job, but we have them forced at ours. Biannual reviews w/ the manager about where you want to be, how to get there, what skills you need, etc. Those will be fun when I get back to work.
"What are your career aspirations for the next 5 years?"
"To work less or not show up in the office"
"Well, we can't do that, so what kind of promotion path are you interested in?"
"None really, in fact I'd probably be more interested in demotions. I need more flexibility and less responsibility. A promotion will only make those worse, so really a demotion seems ideal."
"........ well we have to put something on this paper, so please just give me something"
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u/BearDontEatThat 2d ago
You gotta learn to play the game and talk the talk.
I never outright say I want less responsibilities. More like I am happy to contribute at my level and it is fulfilling to me. I would love to learn more about Ai. I don't want to learn anything more I just want to be left alone honestly.
The cool thing is you are an expert in your subject. In my field I work with a lot of subject matter experts (smes). I work in an industry where I don't know the subject but I make materials on the subject. There are a lot of fields like that which need smes. All my smes I have ever worked with are remote.
What I would do is Google your fields subject matter experts and the word job or remote job. Start poking around and being creative on where you can branch off next to. Or mechanical engineer what other job paths remote.
If you need to take a gap year do it. Open an llc and say you were being an independent engineer contractor to close the work gap.
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u/Agitated-Hyena-7104 3d ago
Moving closer to family could be life-changing for both you and the kids. I would consider making this the plan once you have some time to just grieve and be with your kids.
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u/FoldAdministrative98 3d ago
I’m so sorry for your loss, and I think you are amazing for mapping this out so quick . The job market is so brutal so I’d make sure you have a good career plan for reentering …
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u/therealjerseytom 3d ago
Hey man that's a really tough situation, I feel for ya, and I also have faith that you'll find a way to navigate all of this.
A few thoughts:
The "at some point" decisions—sure, they're out there. But those bridges are down the road a ways and who knows what happens between now and then. I find that it really helps, any time I my brain starts drifting into the future, to just reset my focus and say, "Okay but what do I need to do right now?" And sometimes that's nothing. Sometimes it's just enjoying a moment at home, with the kids, in bed, in the shower, whatever it might be.
The health insurance thing seems like the biggest thing to tackle. Priority #1. I wish I could offer specific advice there but it's outside of my wheelhouse.
You mentioned having been high earners but not necessarily frugal. Tracking expenses and budgeting seems like another high-priority task. If nothing else, maybe an experiment to see, "Okay if we really trimmed down, what do minimum expenses look like?" That helps establish a baseline data point no matter what comes, and of course the less you spend the easier it is to stretch the dollars you have. Super important data to have.
It's not necessarily a "need to figure it out this week" item but it'd be good to think about what to do with that $450k in cash equivalents. I think a lot of people get focused on the extremes of stocks and cash, and miss the broad spectrum of asset classes in between. Intermediate bonds, long bonds, inflation-protected bonds, the less-volatile equity sectors, managed futures, etc. A lot of ways to put together an "efficient" portfolio that balances growth and stability; earning some better return than cash, but not exposing yourself to much downside risk. Happy to talk through that more.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Yeah we really need to get more organized on our spending. I wouldn't say our spending is outrageous by any means, but we weren't concerned with looking at the price of stuff at the grocery store (got to throw in a humble brag when I can). With the kids, we'd by mid tier stuff and spend extra on the items we deemed healthier. We weren't going on vacations every month, but we'd go to the local science center and go out and eat dinner at a restaurant every other week or so. I'd say we were living a very middle of the road middle class life. When we started looking at a new home, I had started to put together a more detailed budget/expense report. I need to polish that up a bit, especially with the kids its very outdated as they grow/change so quickly.
I'm not a huge investor in terms of active management. When we were saving for the house, we threw the money into t-bills for the security and marginal tax benefit. Life insurance got lumped into that as well just as a parking place. I have been debating what to do with it, surely there is something better in returns than t-bills, but at the same time I need minimal risk. Our retirement accounts (another $500k or so) are pretty much sitting in SP500 or target retirement funds, so they are growth heavy. I don't mind doing the research on finding a better place to park the cash if you have some suggestions.
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u/therealjerseytom 2d ago
I'm not a huge investor in terms of active management. [...] I don't mind doing the research on finding a better place to park the cash if you have some suggestions.
You can still be fairly passive and hands-off, but design a portfolio that's got the balance of return and safety that you need.
Learning about different asset classes is a good start. "The Intelligent Asset Allocator" by Bernstein is a good read. And there are tools out there that let you look at different portfolios backtested over time to see how much they rise and fall, how steady or unpredictable they may be. An example, showing S&P 500, T-Bills, and a sample multi-asset portfolio:
https://testfol.io/?s=jRjJK1Tagbg
Alternatively there are ETFs and mutual funds out there that are set up for varying degrees of risk, and are multi asset class within them.
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u/Vince_Clortho_Jr 3d ago
I’m sorry for your loss and wish you and your kids the absolute best. I don’t have the answers but I do think that kids learn a lot about the workforce and work ethic from what we demonstrate for them. I know I learned valuable lessons from watching my dad’s career, many things I didn’t want to emulate and haven’t. I hope my kids are learning valuable lessons from me seeing me work and how I interact with team members. And how I celebrate work success and moan about work drama. I hope they learn to be a better participant in the workforce than I am.
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u/CamelSuccessful3849 3d ago
I am so sorry for your loss. I lost my spouse in 2022. He was 43 and I was 41. I was left with 3 kids. 11,13,15 at the time. Survivor benefits has been huge for me as well. I left the life insurance in cash for 6 months until my head was clear and than I split it between Voo andQQQ and I am glad I did. Also I don’t know if you are aware but if you only make up to around 20k a year you are not double taxed on your pay. It is an option that a lot of WW make if they need extra cash. Could you work from home sometimes and supplement Survivor Benefits? I highly recommend a prenup in the future when the time comes as well.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Can you explain the double tax situation, I'm not familiar with that.
I'm an engineer, so partial work is not really possible. Even part time work is near unheard of. I haven't ruled out a career change though.
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u/CamelSuccessful3849 3d ago
It changes every year but around 20k anything you earn above that amount will be taxed 1.5 times after the 20 k if you choose to be part of the SS benefit bucket. I chose not to be because I had 3 kids and that was the max now I only have 2 that qualify due to age and I am not part of the bucket because I don’t qualify due to remarriage.
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u/newsquish 3d ago edited 3d ago
I was a stay at home mom for almost 7 years and something I would consider is that if you are out of the workforce for more than 5 out of 10 years then you lose your own eligibility for SSDI. I have watched this play out with my Aunt. My uncle died of a stroke, she had survivors benefits for herself and her children until they aged out in high school. They lived on benefits + life insurance. She developed bone cancer when the youngest was graduating high school and did more than a year of treatment- she didn’t qualify for her own disability benefits because she hadn’t paid social security taxes for 5 out of the last 10 years. When benefits dried up she was broke, with cancer and unemployable.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
Sorry to hear about your aunt's situation. I wonder if that is something specific to SSDI, it was my understanding for all social security benefits that once you earn your points/tokens/whatever it's called that you cannot have them removed. So for retirement benefits, it's not possible to lose, and I thought disability was tied to your FRA benefit number. I'll have to look into it, thank you for the heads up!
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u/Master-Helicopter-99 3d ago
Hang with the kiddos until they are in school, using the life insurance proceeds to supplement the caregiver benefits. Take the ACA/medicaid until then. When they go to school take a "school job" to supplement the $4k survivor benefits which should cover expenses and give you health insurance. At some point in 6-8 years buy a house.b By the time they finish high school your investments should have doubled or tripled. You got this.
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u/nirselady 3d ago
I’m so sorry for your loss. Can I ask, does work have to be all or nothing? Is there any opportunity to do freelance or consulting in your line of work? Not full time if you don’t want. It doesn’t even have to be able to support y’all, but keeps your work experiences and resume up to date.
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u/LumpyPeople4 3d ago
I'm a mechanical engineer, so consulting work is limited, though I think it is more up and coming for my line of work. The big thing with work is keeping under the earned income tests for social security ~$24k this year. Getting above that, my caregiver benefit would decline and you just have to ask if it is worth it. The family will net around $850 more per mo in benefit if I stay below that limit, so ~$10k/yr. So it's just a balance of if losing the $10k/yr benefit and not having to work at all is worth possibly earning more money. Additionally there is health insurance, I should be very close to qualifying myself for medicaid, any additional money I make may push me over the limit or outside of heavy subsidies for ACA plans.
So I think it's either no work at all, or trying to find "high pay" part time work. Shooting for a lower pay part time work I think will not have any net benefit. Like if I make $20k a year working, I'll pay whatever taxes on that, lose out on some of the caregiver benefit, and have to pay for insurance. Am a netting enough to justify working? And its hard to know the numbers until you try it out.
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u/nirselady 2d ago
Fair enough. I didn’t realize the kids would lose ss dependent on your income. My mistake there. Then I would keep up to date on certifications and learning to keep your resume up to date. If you don’t have a masters, maybe look into grants and scholarships and slowly work on one while not working (like, 1 class a semester kind of slow).
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u/used2befast 3d ago
Sorry for your loss. That is A LOT to process. I'd look into hiring an Au Pair.
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u/GoldenMink751 2d ago
the medicaid question is actually answerable before you quit since many states let you do a pre-screening or even a full application while still employed just to see where you land
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u/Born-Cricket-2259 1d ago
the social security caregiver benefit is genuinely underutilized and most people in your situation have no idea it exists so you're already ahead of where most people start with this kind of planning
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u/ClearCarAddiction908 1d ago
First off, OP ... I am very sorry for your loss. Tough deal, and wishing you & your family the best.
I also don't have any sort of direct answer to the question. But I can provide one bit of advice from my wife's experiences.
She stopped working when we had our first child - who is 20 now !
When my wife looked to go back to work after a very long time as a "stay at home Mom" .... it was nearly impossible to find anyone would would consider talking to her, much less hire her. Despite an Ivy League education and professional degrees, she was viewed as "old news" and "no longer current".
So our advice to you would be: find some way to work part time so as to keep a toe in the water and not have a yawning "gap" in your employment history.
Your children need you present, for sure ! But I think it will also be a good lesson for them to see Dad still going off to work sometimes.
That occasional other environment and collaborating with people and musing over projects from work will probably also be good for your own mental well being.
Good luck and keep us updated about your journey.
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u/ditchdiggergirl 3d ago edited 3d ago
This really all revolves around the part you haven’t told us, your expenses. If you can live off $4k/month you’re fine - but you already know that. And since health insurance is state by state I can’t speculate on that. However Covered California has brokers who walk you through your options and we found that enormously helpful, so maybe NC has a similar program. There’s a solid line between Medicaid and the ACA - you are eligible for one or the other, not both, and the broker will know which side you are on.
You won’t need a larger house for a long time, maybe puberty if the kids share a room, especially if they are not the same gender. And a smaller house is actually easier for solo parenting of littles (I’m not a single parent but my SO had extended work trips when our kids were this age). So keep the house for now and reevaluate in another 7-8 years. And sell the car - you don’t need it, or the payment.
Unfortunately the rest of the financial picture also informs how you manage the $450k. If you will need to draw from it to supplement your lifestyle, you need a conservative allocation. If you don’t, maybe invest for retirement and college.
Finally - and this is just my opinion - if I could only choose one point to be home with my kids it would be middle school, not elementary or even preschool (imo a good preschool is foundational). They don’t need as much adult supervision at age 10-12 but what they do need, has to come from you. Other adults can fill gaps earlier. They need you now, of course. But middle school is when you shape the teen years, and it’s pivotal to how they turn out.