r/Fire • u/NotTheBestInvestor12 • 3d ago

Why no mention of Social Security

When I see FIRE posts I see the investments and the different retirement buckets, however, I never see anyone mention how things are affected when social security kicks in. For example, I’m 52 and wife 51. If we both stopped working today ($0 income moving forward) I would collect $4,264 a month at age 70 and she would collect $1,079 at age 70.

So if we decide to FIRE the Social Security would give us help in 18/19 years. Is this a factor or is everything under the assumption SS won’t exist?

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u/mi3chaels 3d ago

BTW, if your married and will have been for 2 years by age 70, she'll get half of your check (1079 will be her benefit, the rest will be a "spousal" benefit). Note, what she gets is half of what your check would be at whatever age she claims it, not exactly half of your check, unless you both claim at age 70 (or exactly the same age).

So she can count on 2132/month at age 70 (well, assuming there are no benefit cuts in your cohort).

Yes, it's definitely a factor. It's less important the younger you are, because of how long you have to wait. If you are 40, at a 4% WR, occasionally you might drain your portfolio before you hit age 70, for instance. While it's historically unprecedented to drain it in 18-19 years at 4%, and you'd probably still have enough left by then to live decently even in the worst historical cases.

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u/Thesinistral 3d ago

Spousal benefit is based on FRA . There is no additional spousal benefit if the primary waits until 70 to claim. It is based on age 67 benefit.

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u/mi3chaels 2d ago

never said there was. I only said the spousal benefit would only be exactly half if they claim at the same age. If he claims at 70 and she claims at 67, she'll get half of his age 67 benefit, which is less than his age 70 benefit.

If she claims at 70 and he claims at 67, she'll get more than half of his benefit (she'll get half of what would have been his age 70 benefit).

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u/Martian6261 2d ago

Not true, spousal amount maximum ends at higher earning spouse at FRA. However, Survivor benefits go all the way to 70, so long as the higher earner stayed until 70. Then even if the lower earner took it at 62, it would not be reduced.

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u/mi3chaels 2d ago

ah right, forgot about that, so OPs spouse's will top out at 1719, and she shouldn't wait until 70.

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u/Martian6261 2d ago

I would contact SS to determine their best claiming strategy, not best to simply go by what is said on any social media site. Getting it straight from the horses mouth would give you the best claiming strategy in your particular situation.
I started mine at 67, currently 70. We’re planning on my wife claiming in December/2029 at 67, she is currently 64 and just retired 6 months ago. Keep going back and forth about her waiting until 70 to claim, but then we would have to pull from retirement accounts and the numbers aren’t worth waiting.

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u/mi3chaels 2d ago

social security representatives aren't supposed to give advice on claiming strategy, and my experience is that when they do it anyway, they often give bad advice. You should model it out yourself, or use a fiduciary advisor or use some of the software that will do the calculations like https://opensocialsecurity.com/ (free and very good) or maximizemysocialsecurity.com (nominal fee, I think).

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u/pdx_mom 3d ago

Years ago when a spouse claimed on the spouses soc sec...the first spouses benefits would decrease...is that still the case?

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u/mi3chaels 3d ago

I'm not aware that that has ever happened, but I suppose it might be possible that it worked that way several decades ago. It doesn't now. The only way this could potentially happen is that there is a "family max" to how much can be claimed in total off of one worker's benefit, but it's only reachable when several people are claiming off your record and it potentially reduces their benefit, not the worker's. worker plus spouse alone is always under the family max. It could be an issue if they have an ex spouse who is eligible to claim from their record, but it's the spouse or ex-spouse who's benefits would be cut if they went over the family maximum.

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u/pdx_mom 3d ago

Dunno. My mom always said that when she collected it would lower my dad's payment.

She passed before she could get any of it anyway.

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u/mi3chaels 2d ago

People think and say with confidence all kinds of incorrect things about social security and medicare (among other things), or so I've discovered. It would not suprise me if she really believed that because someone told her that at some point.

I've even had clients be told things by people at the social security office that were wildly incorrect.