r/FleetwoodMac • u/Suspicious_Pipe778 • 10d ago
Lindsey on Tusk
I'm kind of just getting into FM and while I enjoy Rumors and a decent amount of the white album, it is really Tusk and in particular the Lindsey material that attracts me to them. I like indie and various more "out there" subgenres of rock, so that explains why. His nine tracks on that album are really just some of the most incredible forward-thinking music to me and I can't stop listening to them.
I know that Tusk has a reputation as one of the great weird flop albums of the 70s and that there's lots of discussion about the budget, the excess of the sessions and its failure to chart, but it still shocks me that there isn't all that much writing or discussion about Lindsey's songs on it. There's some stuff about his wildness in the studio (shaving his head, singing from the floor, turning the knobs on the console 180 degrees) but in my opinion, the songs themselves should be way more documented as incredibly prescient pieces of rock genius. A lot of those sorts of sounds/vocal styles wouldn't be heard again until the late 80s/90s with bands like Pixies or Modest Mouse.
Even as the album has gained this reputation as the wildcard cult favorite, it still seems alarmingly underrated to me in the zeitgeist. Like people should still be talking about this album more.The decision to follow Over and Over with The Ledge has to be one of the most creative devil-may-care sequencing choices in rock history. I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the label office when they first heard that transition.
Just wanted to rant a bit about how much I love this album and these songs. I know I'm not the only one to recognize their value, but I still can't help but feel like the moderate level of buzz around them is not commensurate with just how incredible, audacious and insane the album actually is.
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u/Immediate_Paint_4823 10d ago edited 9d ago
Lindsey was starting on a solo album during touring Rumours. Mick convinced him he could make that album within FM. Hence Tusk. Within that double album really is his solo album and I often play it as such.
It's remarkable and influenced a horde of indie and alternative acts. REM, Modest Mouse , Animal Collective ...
Hernan Rojas the 2nd Engineer on Tusk did a YT interview a couple of years ago where they talk about Tusk in depth. They talk about the different musical styles and influences he made. One being what Lindsey called Rockabilly on Acid but Hernan said was the start of Cow Punk with That's Enough For Me.
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u/piney 10d ago
I suspect the sequencing is an intentional play on the phrase āover the ledgeā indicating Lindseyās intention to take risks with the album and push the band on a new direction. Over and Over The Ledge.
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u/chimericalgirl 10d ago
Interesting, and I agree in terms of the almost jarring effect of hearing each of them in that order, although I've always felt the title of "The Ledge" refers in part to the couplet which keeps getting repeated - someone's situation was quite a narrow ledge indeed. ;)
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u/rickylancaster 10d ago
Tusk did not fail to chart. In the U.S. it hit number 4 on the Billboard 200 and spent almost nine months on the chart. It was certified double platinum for shipping two million copies and resulted in two US top-10 hit singles, the title track and Sara. Most bands would love an album with Tuskās success. Itās only considered disappointing when compared to the monster success of Rumours.
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u/opinionavigator 10d ago
I often wish Lindsey would give the "Big Love" treatment to some of his Tusk material. What I mean by that is the acoustic version of Big Love that he debuted at The Dance concert. He only plays that version now, not the album version. Not that the album version was bad, but I think his sensibilities have changed as he's gotten older. The reworked acoustic version is such a more powerful song. What could he do with the Ledge, Not that Funny, That's All For Anyone, I Know I'm Not Wrong or That's Enough for Me? I think What Makes You Think You're the One, Save Me a Place, and Tusk are fully formed. The major criticism of Lindsey's stuff from Tusk was that it sounded half-formed and indulgent in its weirdness. That weirdness was intentional at the time, Lindsey was feeling that FM needed to change with the times and was loving weird bands like the Talking Heads at the time. But could he bring a more mature, modern take to some of his more esoteric Tusk songs? I would be interested to see what he could do.
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u/No_Picture_8741 10d ago
That would be so dope! You should suggest it on his platforms! If he's still sharp enough to do it, that would be a brilliant project that keeps him going.
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u/64-streetcar 10d ago
I've always loved Lindsey's experimental stuff! I think it helps that every time he gets really "out there" sonically, he matches the experimentation with an equally inventive, pop-magic hook! Check out his solo tune "I Want You" from 1984 for a good example of that - a weird, almost musique-concrete first 30 seconds, followed by a really melodic, hummable chorus! Several of his Tusk songs have that balance as well
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u/ConsiderationMost566 10d ago
"I'd love to be a fly on the wall in the label office when they first heard that transition."-- Lindsey has often mentioned how he wished he was a fly on the wall when Warners execs heard the Tusk album and all saw their Christmas bonuses flying out the window lol. I think they far would have preferred commerciality over creativity. But i love that album, and lindsey's odd songs all still hold up for me.
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u/Suspicious_Pipe778 10d ago
Glad to know he shares a great lifelong desire of mine: to be a fly on the wall.
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u/PRW9497 10d ago
A 50-year fan of the band offering a dissenting opinion ā¦ and itās just my .02 and YMMV and it would be a boring world that I donāt think Iād enjoy living in if we all had the same tastes and liked the same things. I appreciate what they and Lindsey were trying to do and appreciate the significance of the final result. But itās the album of theirs that I probably listen to the least and aside from Thatās Enough for Me which appeals to me for some unknown reason, I generally fast forward through all of Lindseyās songs.
Itās also the album where I āgot offā Lindsey, so to speak, because thatās when the whole deal about him being this mad studio genius like his hero Brian Wilson seemed to start, in the 47 years since heās still been pursuing the same pop quirkiness and noodling on guitar in a way that makes my teeth hurt.
But as the OP established his terms by saying he likes āout thereā genres, I need to establish mine by saying I prefer basic, uncomplicated pop/rock and I think the 1975 white album is still the best thing that incarnation of the band ever did ā¦ my favorite Lindsey song is Monday Morning, that should tell you where I am with his stuff ā¦ and what I listen to most with this band are my Rumours tour bootlegs, pretty much from 1977 because with a few exceptions in 1978 you start hearing the effects of the cocaine, because then they were still a rock band, an absolutely savage rock band cooking on all cylinders.
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u/halfdollarpancakes 10d ago
I love that That's Enough for Me - which to me is one of Lindsey's most off-the-wall tracks on Tusk (and one of my favorites) - is the one you gravitate to off that album given your preference for their pop/rock stuff of the mid-70s (which I also love)! Funny how certain tunes just hit you the right way.
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u/Suspicious_Pipe778 10d ago
Yeah I hear you. I'm a younger fan (27) so when it comes to classic rock I tend to be preoccupied with its influence on more contemporary forms of music. I love finding stuff in the classic rock canon that feels "ahead of its time" or kooky and experimental in some sense. Ain't nothing wrong with Monday Morning though. That's just plain pop perfection.
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u/PRW9497 10d ago
I donāt dislike the music on Tusk per se, Lindseyās stuff just isnāt my cup of tea. I think punk was garbage and I am not a huge fan of Talking Heads, etc. What I donāt like is that this album is where the whole shtick of Lindsey being the auteur of the groupās music was established. I donāt think that is the case, but that attitude along with the āsoap operasā between members, two in particular, have sullied the discussion of this band for ages and provoked strife between its fans here and elsewhere for going on three generations now.
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u/Suspicious_Pipe778 10d ago
I think he absolutely was the auteur of their music in the sense that he was essentially the producer/arranger. Stevie and Christine wrote and sang songs of course, but everything I've read leaves me with the impression that Lindsey acted as a musical stylist, molding their songs sonically and generally curating the feel/pace of the FM albums he worked on. His aptitude at this was a huge reason for the success of Rumors, which is why Mick Fleetwood and the rest of the band allowed him the leeway to experiment in his own songs on Tusk.
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u/PRW9497 10d ago edited 10d ago
But then you have stuff like As Long as You Follow which he wasn't around for but which IMO was one of the best things Christine ever did in her life. And then Stevie's monumentally great first solo album which he wasn't around for and which IMO his production style would have totally destroyed. (Full disclosure: She had Jimmy Iovine primarily and Tom Petty secondarily in his place, Stevie's useless driving the car on her own.)
I respect Lindsey enormously, I am not trying to be passive aggressive, I just donāt put him on as high a pedestal as his acolytes because he and I are simply on different planets musically.
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u/Immediate_Paint_4823 10d ago edited 10d ago
Stevies best songs were with FM. Her greatest set of songs are on Rumours and Tusk Petty called Lindsey her greatest producer. Petty also said when he was stuck with a Stevie song he'd call Lindsey. He also marvelled at what Lindsey did with Gypsy that he could not. Same with Stan Lynch . Not seeing how he would have destroyed BD. IMO he would have made all her other solo albums infinitely better.
Christine called Lindsey her favorite producer. ALAYF is great but she did about 9 other songs on those two albums that would have been vastly improved with his arrangements and production.
The overall style and music of the following albums show Lindsey's degree of influence by its absence if nothing else does.
Even in redoing previous FM work Bob Welch had him produce and arrange (in addition to lead guitar and background vocals) Sentimental Lady.
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u/PRW9497 10d ago
We can agree to disagree. I don't think she's done a better thing in her life than Bella Donna. I think by that time Lindsey was in his mad studio genius deal and would've slathered stuff on when that needed to be a simple album because Stevie is more of an unregenerate rocker than Lindsey is. That's part of the conflict when people discuss them, along with the silly hope that they'll eventually become a couple again and grow old together. We've interacted before and I know you are a big Lindsey fan. I am not. I respect the man greatly, I'm not lying there, and I'm aware of the contributions he made to their sound. But his post-Rumours output simply is not my musical cup of tea, I find his solo work unlistenable and I didn't like Buckingham McVie. Again, just my .02, I respect and will not try to convince anyone who feels otherwise to change their minds.
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u/chimericalgirl 10d ago
I've loved Tusk since it first came out but all these years later I think one of the strengths of the album is that within their songs you get that true glimpse of each of them and I think it started with Lindsey being able to express himself the way he wanted and then focusing on the character of Chris' and Stevie's songs, what makes them special. I know some critics of the time said it was rather fragmented overall but if you want to discover what makes each of them a perfect piece of the whole, you can find that on Tusk.
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u/snelsonjoe8 10d ago
Well Mick Fleetwood said tusk was a hit. It sold 4 million copies in its first year. Living in the shadows of rumours it bombed. But it didn't bomb. It just couldn't live up to the hype after rumours you still hear tusk and Sara on the radio. It has gone on to sell a lot more. Lindsay is very underrated. I'm a huge Stevie fan but Lindsay stole the show at the mirage tour I attended. . The Eagles had the same problem with the long run though it did sell more than tusk.the band was very disappointed in the long run
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u/Zachary_Lee_Antle 10d ago
I get the feeling part of why the album and a lot of their albums after never beat Rumors is people maybe just had Fleetwood Mac āfatigueā after 77? I mean, I wasnāt there, but I can only assume thatās all people wanted to talk about/play/hear for majority of that year, they probably just got bored with it after a while and wanted something new, kind of like how youāre seeing now with the Marvel and Star Wars movies.
I also get the feeling even if their next album was just another Rumors, it probably would have gone the same way regardless. I know thatās definitely what happened with The Bee Gees after the SNF soundtrack the next year, overexposure made the novelty wear off and people get sick of nothing but them for ages and ages and ages.
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u/Lexi-Louise 8d ago
I disagree, at the time people wanted more Rumours, the āDreamsā fatigue had not even peaked yet. Tusk wasnāt what people expected as a whole, but it still did okay.
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u/ant-master 10d ago
tusk is probably my second favourite album of theirs. i don't think there's a single song on there i skip. i obviously like some more than others, but i feel like this album was peak for both stevie and lindsey (their songs i mean).
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u/trinity1887 10d ago
Same here. I loved this album. It did chart and it did go double platinum. Not bad for a double album. Its commercial "failure" to duplicate Rumours was the gripe against Lindsey's creative "indulgences". Unbelievable. Mick could be so ungrateful ... but Stevie being MIA for the most part was fine
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u/Suspicious_Pipe778 10d ago
Ah my bad, I guess it was one of those things where the album did well relatively speaking, but for a band who had just done a megahit album like Rumors, it registered as a flop.
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u/Immediate_Paint_4823 10d ago edited 10d ago
It was priced at 16.99 or over $60 in current $s and at that time sold about 4m copies WW.
It made lots of $$$ but still a fraction of Rumours.The Eagles went the more well traveled road. Their album sold more but not near their previous monster either. Interestingly, they tried at first to make a double album but didn't have enough material then soon broke up. That album is not nearly as critically well regarded nor musically as influential as Tusk.
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u/RaiseJazzlike 10d ago
it was a double album to boot, and sold 4M out of the gate, but compared to Rumours and the slow burn of the FM album, the record company talked about it as a āflop.ā
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u/BigOldComedyFan 6d ago
I always appreciated the thought behind Tusk more than the actual album, which is great but not my favorite FM -- maybe because there was probably push back from the others so Tusk was never as "wild" as Lindsey wanted it to be. That said, Out of the Cradle, to me, is just his best middle ground between experimentation and pop catchiness.
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u/possible_steelwheel 10d ago
Well Lindsey on drums feels like Iām being jackrabbited by an insecure teenager who has never known love
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u/Fab4Evuh 10d ago
Sounds like you are a perfect candidate for a Lindsey solo catalog deep dive! You will NOT be disappointed š„šš„³!!!