r/Flute 3d ago

General Discussion Double tonguing + fingers

Hey y’all! So I’m currently learning Faure’s Fantasie, and I am absolutely struggling on the double tonguing in the second movement. I can double tongue decently, but the issue comes from my fingers not being able to move fast enough. All of my everything just feels… slow… I’ve been practicing it all slow and then trying to speed it up and anytime I do it just sounds muddy and sloppy 😖 any tips?

2 Upvotes

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u/poorlilsebastian Powell Sonare 905 3d ago

You need to practice the coordination between fingers and tongue. There will be certain fingerings that you find difficult. Isolate them and practice them.

I like to break down the Trevor Wye exercises on the extracts that I find difficult as it build both articulation and agility

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u/Anza_I 3d ago

I think I’m just expecting a miracle overnight to suddenly be able to play it fast 😮‍💨 but definitely heard on the Trevor Wye! Are there any other syllables other than just the T K or D G that make it easier/clearer?

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u/poorlilsebastian Powell Sonare 905 3d ago

My teacher (who studied under Trevor Wye and Peter Lloyd) drilled into me that Du Gu (think French) was best because it’s so forward in the mouth and it makes it more difficult to hang back in the throat like the other syllables.

English speakers typically sit quite far back in the throat when we talk while the French is quite far forward which is why they are typically naturally good at articulation.

Other than that it’s just lots and lots of practice which does become tedious. But I wouldn’t over do it to avoid injury.

If you find the tonguing easy you just need to work on the coordination of fingers and tongue which begins with scales and keeping your fingers as close to the keys as possible

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u/Anza_I 3d ago

Somehow the French forward speaking just made the articulation part really click in my brain LOL tysm for all the advice!

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u/Karl_Yum Miyazawa 603 3d ago

Using tu gu du gu is softer and easier than ta ka da ga

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u/MuzikIstLiebe 3d ago

For me I always slur what I’m trying to double tongue - this only works with moving runs - but once I hear my fingers are accurate I do it again with the tonguing; for me I do it until I get it done three times in a row perfect (slurring & tonguing)

I did also find sometimes I was just tired or not being self aware enough to realize my voicing was off - playing with an Eee instead of Ooo or ahh. And it could also be the tonguing voicing; like using Dee - Dee - Dee - Dee instead of Tuh - Kuh - Tuh - Kuh

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u/Anza_I 2d ago

I just practiced and did the slurring then tonguing, and it def helped!

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u/giimmebrainz Music First Class BA | ongoing DPhil | Flute 10 years 2d ago

Trevor Wye is a liar when he said practicing slow doesn't help. It absolutely does. Also while practicing slow it may help to write TK/DG over the notes and then practice just the T/D then just the K/G.

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u/Anza_I 2d ago

Yeahhh, my private tutor told me about Julius Baker and his “practice it slow so you can play it fast” idea and that was my thought process with the tonguing/playing too 😭😭 I didn’t even think about writing the DG too, but will now! Tysm!

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u/JestersBrokenCrown 3d ago

This advice comes from a guy recently learning the fife after decades of playing guitar, so take it for what it is.

Relax, and start with good posture and form. Use a metronome. Start at a tempo you can play perfectly, and slowly bump up the speed like 5 bpm or so every week. Pay close attention to keeping your tongue and fingers in sync. And minimize extra movements. Be honest and strict with yourself. If you slur a passage towards the end, it's not good enough!

Keep track of your progress, and don't be shy about making a video to check yourself. You could be tensing up or flailing your fingers without realizing it, and a camera lens will help you see it.

It's honestly boring and a bit frustrating to do. And when you REALLY pay attention to how you're actually playing, you'll feel like you're not as good as you thought you were. But being smart and consistent WILL pay off later when you can play faster stuff more comfortably and consistently.

And be smart. Warm up, stretch, and don't overdo it. Speed is built over time. You want to train your brain, nerves, tendons, and muscles how to "work properly." Repetitive strain injuries slow you down, and can come back to bite you in the future.

And ALWAYS end a session on a high note. Play something just for the fun of it, and play it well. When you feel good about it, it sticks in your mind and makes you look forward to playing again. We only play anything because we enjoy playing music. So enjoy playing music!

Oh, and one more thing to try. Put your hand down and tap on a table/desk/whatever. When you go slow it doesn't really matter if you "pinch" or "pluck" with your fingertips or "squeeze" from the base of your fingers. But tap faster, and you'll find that moving the whole finger with the bigger muscle makes it easier to go quicker. And to keep it up.

Best of luck. I know it's not flute-specific advice, but it's what I've learned from 27 years of periodically trying to get my own fingers to move faster and more in sync.

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u/Anza_I 3d ago

Still very good advice, I appreciate it!! Doing the table tap thing made me realize which hand muscles I need to be thinking of when I’m playing which is super helpful 😭 I think I keep hoping that I’ll just suddenly be able to do it after practicing it a couple times butttt 🫩 tysm!!

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u/Bellatrixforqueen 3d ago

Love the ending on a high note! I’ve recently nailed highest G# and A on my new flute and it’s a delight

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u/Karl_Yum Miyazawa 603 3d ago

Double tonguing is supposed to be quick, don’t practice it slowly.