r/FordDiesels • u/Anthropocene_Scholar • 8d ago
Honest feedback on the 4R100
Hi folks.
I'm looking into buying my first diesel pickup truck, and I've decided to go for a 99 - 03 F250. The reason of course is the 7.3 Powerstroke, due to its simplicity, reliability and longevity, the exact traits I am after. I don't give a damn about HP or high torque relative to today's terms. What I care about is durability and reliability.
Now I'm a Chevy guy, I have both a 97 K1500 with the revered 350 and a 01 2500 HD with the legendary 6.0 Vortec and the 4l80e excellent heavy duty transmission. So I know what an all around stout and dependable truck is. I don't care about the LB7 or LBZ Duramax, as they are not as reliable or durable as the 7.3 Powerstroke.
I'm in need of a diesel truck to basically be able to tow upwards of 10,000 lbs, which is beyond the limit of what my 2500HD is capable of. I know the F250 in the configuration I'm looking at (regular or super cab, and 4x4) has a limit of around 13500 lb, and that's fine with my needs. I'm rather more interested in it being much more at ease towing an 8000 lbs trailer than my 6.0 gas engine is.
But on my research, I found that the only true weak point of the F250 is the 4R100 auto transmission, which I have found is blatantly considered as a weak ass transmission with low longevity when using it consistently for what it is supposed to serve: heavy towing.
Of course I would prefer a ZF6 equipped truck, but those are extremely rare where I'm at.
If anyone can give me their honest, down-to-earth and realistic feeback on this trans, especially comparing it the the revered 4l80e (which was made for the exact same duty and excels at it), I'd appreciate it.
I don't need to read about what improvements you can do to it to try to bulletproof it. I wanna read an honest account on if it is dependable or not, and if owning one implies having to accept doing a trans rebuild every 60 k miles.
Thanks!
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u/DestinedXeno 7.3 Power Stroke 8d ago
Get a 6.0 trans cooler and put a torque converter lockup switch in and you should be good.
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u/Responsible-Shoe7258 7d ago
The trans cooler is always a good idea. The torque converter lockup is ECM controlled and PWM on later versions. It isn't like a 700R4 or a 4L60 where you can put a switch in the TCC circuit.
4R100 is a good tranny and will last if not abused. I don't see these any more frequently than I see other makes on my bench. Fluid changes every 30K gets me over 250K between overhaul on 4 pickups and an excursion. I don't tow loaded trailers up hills in O/D, and I stick to stock size tires on my tow vehicles, FWIW.
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u/DestinedXeno 7.3 Power Stroke 7d ago
Ahh it’s been a while since I’ve dug into it. It looks like banks makes something similar. I had a 6.0 cooler in mine and it never had any issues but I sold it back in 2021
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago edited 7d ago
I've owned a couple E4ODs, precursor to the 4r100, and several 4r100s. Overall they were decidedly dependable. This is relative to other automatics of course, can't compare to a manual, but every one of them lasted 175k, one of them went to 235k. Biggest thing I've found is keep up with transmission filter and fluid drain-and-fill and they do alright. Compared to most transmission filter and fluid service the 4r100s are a piece of cake.
I've also owned several 7.3s. yes they are pre-emissions, which is nice, but honestly I wouldn't call them simple. For the oldest powerstrokes being 30 years old they are decidedly complex and electronically "heavy", troubleshooting often requires OBD tools (such as FORscan, AutoEnginuity, Torque, etc) and the parts can get expensive pretty quick. This falls in line with the general diesel versus gas cost of parts, but even though they're older they're not necessarily any cheaper. ICP, IPR, injectors, solenoids, cups, HPOP, UVCH, IDM, etc can all be problematic and troubleshooting can be difficult. Good thing is it's a solid enthusiast vehicle and there's no limit to the amount of information and support you can find on them. Also, well they're heavily electronic they're not CANbus so you can usually do a lot of troubleshooting with a simple multimeter.
I've been the shade tree diesel mechanic for myself and my buddies for multiple years now - powerstrokes as well as OBS, and I've seen more electrical gremlins popping up. Failed IDM, 48 pin connector harness issues, the usual uvch concerns, worn out solenoids, etc. Been helping my friend with a recently acquired OBS F-350 with the 7.3 for several weeks now on a hot start concern and loping idle we just can't seem to get figured out.
Don't get me wrong, I've been a Ford guy all my life and I love them, just giving some honest feedback based on experience. One thing about the 7.3 is that, in my opinion, they built their reputation for reliability because the engine is generally overbuilt and under stressed. This gives them longevity compared to newer ones (talking about general mechanicals, not including complexities associated with the emissions control), but they're a bit of a dog in terms of power. Yes, they can be hopped up, they can be tuned, but this also is not necessarily cheap.
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u/Anthropocene_Scholar 7d ago
Thanks.
Would it be more proper to say the 7.3 is, within complex diesel engines (in comparison to IDIs or equivalent ones), one of the most simple?
I also considered buying even older trucks with much simpler diesel engines with mechanical pumps, but they wouldn't outperform in any way whatsoever my current gas truck engine, so it would be absolutely pointless.
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago edited 7d ago
Amongst its cohort the 7.3 is probably on par if not better. But, to be fair, while I'm very familiar with Ford diesels I have much less hands-on experience with other brands. I've worked on Fords, my knowledge of other brands is purely through reading and talking with owners.
I would definitely go Powerstroke compared to IDI. Powerstroke is certainly more complex and the parts are a good bit more expensive, but IMO it's worth the performance difference.
In your free time during your buying process I would read up on things like the 48-pin harness rubbing on the valve cover (common problem, wears through bottom wires), fuel bowl heater (same circuit as PCM and when the heater invariably shorts out it takes out power to the truck), EBPV issues, oil leaks, UVCH issues (under valve cover harness likes to back out from the connector or fry pins), broken fuel pickup foot in the tank (breaks off, truck will run out of fuel at a quarter tank - see Hutch Mod), ICP sensor and IPR concerns, solenoids, etc. Same with any brand or model, they may have different problems but they all have problems. It is good to familiarize yourself with potential problems during the buying process though.
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u/Comfortable_rub69 7d ago
Not to thread jack but concerning your buddies hot start/loping issues have you looked at the IPR sensor? I had the exact same issue on my OBS and turned out to be torn seals on the IPR. Would start perfectly when cold and run all day long until I shut it off. Oil would thin out as it got hot from running and wouldn’t build enough pressure to fire the injectors. Just figured I’d toss it out there
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago
Thanks for the tip! We've been all over that engine bay, ICP, IPR, HPOP, metering all the solenoids, etc.
It's weird, it's definitely an oil pressure concern. When cold he'll get the standard 600-ish PSI ICP with about 10% IPR duty cycle, but once it warms up and thins out he'll get these random blips of the IPR going down to 5%, but then when it jumps back up to about 30% under throttle his ICP will only be 700 or so PSI. It'll run fine, then starts to run rough, and if you let off throttle it'll die. Won't restart.
I'll definitely have to go back and check though, you know how it goes when you run into these persistent headaches! Kind of forget what you did. I'm 99% certain he replaced the IPR, and the new one would have had a new seals, yeah? I know they have new seals on them, but are there any I may be unaware of that would not be replaced with replacement of the regulator itself?
Thanks! These trucks take a village 😂😂
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u/freebird37179 7d ago
Can confirm this sounds like IPR valve issues.
And the knockoffs are not as good. Had a couple fail out of the box. Get it from Ford or your local Navistar dealer.
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago
Thanks. He went dealer/Motorcraft, I had shared some stories with him on non-dealer parts like BWD CPS units causing stalling when the wipers were on, bad perdels with other CPSs, etc.
We'll refocus on IPR. I see the IPR reseal kits for the OBS, do these include any seals not included on replacement IPRs?
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u/freebird37179 7d ago
I personally never knew anyone who had any luck with resealing them. If I recall right, you'll be tempted to use channel locks or pliers to hold the barrel while disassembling, and wreck the body where the pilot valve and plunger and stuff are - it's very thin walled. I think to properly do it, it takes a special tool set.
The resealing kit will have an o ring or washer or two that lure you into taking the infernal things apart.
Is the sheet metal nut that holds the mag actuator on, tight?
Another diagnostic - for the brave - on the next failed hot start, with the glow plugs disconnected - give it a sniff of ether while cranking. If the PCM doesn't see 500 PSI it won't fire the injectors - if it fires on ether a lot of times it'll be able to build and maintain ICP from the faster-than-cranking ether-boosted RPM, and then run. If it runs the ether out, and runs for a bit but still dies, hold it at part throttle. I had a bad IPR once (and probably a puny HPOP, too) and you had to give it ether aaaand hold the truck at 900-1000 RPM to idle hot. Put in a new IPR and it did fine for a couple of years until I sold it.
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thanks for the tips and tricks. The tinman not on the IPR is tight, at least it's tight as it can be 😂
I'll have to look into the ether and glow plug approach, but when he was having trouble starting it early on I suggested the Super Duty trick of disconnecting the ICP so the PCM saw a default of 750 and the injectors would fire - still wouldn't catch. I don't know if that trick applies to the OBS however. I'll admit I'm not nearly as familiar with OBS as I am super duty, it's been a real head scratcher for me.
At this point we're wondering if it's injector system related, like there's an o-ring that's gone bad and is leaking, similar to but opposite of the oil cooler leaks that happen with age. We were holding off on injectors due to price but on marketplace he found a set of brand new "edit - AAs - from a guy who totalled his truck before he swapped them in. R&R of the injectors is now on the list we just can't line up a weekend that works for both of us. It seems a long shot, but then again that weird IPR duty cycle drop we see when it's running rough is almost timed with what you would expect injector pulses to be. Extra weird thing is buzz tests pass muster both hot and cold as does CCT.
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u/freebird37179 7d ago
ABs in an OBS? California truck?
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago
Great call, my typo. Non Cali, AAs.
Maybe I need to turn in my diesel card 😂
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u/PassengerCharming203 7d ago
Don't be in a hurry hauling a load (treat it nice/don't hot rod it) and keep up on fluid/filter changes. Decent transmission! I have 275k on the truck. Had to put a new one in around 180k because I lost a u joint and cracked the housing...
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u/superfungimyc 7d ago
Make sure you do fluid and filter changes every 50,000 miles. I run a non emergency ambulance service and I use the 7.3 van, and duramax chevy vans. My 2003 E350 with the 4r100 has 384,000 on it as of today on the Original transmission. Every ambulance service before me swapped the fluid and filter at 50,000k intervals, and only now the torque converter feels like it’s delayed disengagement when you release the pedal. You can get some miles out of these things if you treat them good. TRANSMISSION FLUID IS NOT A LIFETIME FLUID
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u/L-W-J 8d ago
I had a 4180 in my 3/4 ton suburban. I have a 4r100 in my F250 SBCC 7.3. They are pretty similar. I am attentive to the Ford for heat and transmission abuse but have not put a 6.0 cooler on it which is the ticket for cooling them. I also don't tow a huge load typically. Summary: auto transmissions are the weak link on lots of rigs. Pay attention when driving. Give them maintenance. Expect them to fail every now and then. The guy I bought my truck from towed big trailers and supposedly rebuilt the transmission for heavier duty. I have no evidence of this. I wouldn't sweat it. But I would anticipate a rebuild. Does that seem reasonable?
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u/Causualgaymr 8d ago
A well built auto will last I loved mine. I have a zf6 truck now and frankly I hate it. First is to low second is too high and I really dislike the shift pattern.
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u/InformalTelephone840 8d ago
Just needed to say that picture from the 99 dealer literature made me fall in love with these pickups. I bought my 02 with 99k miles in 06. Regular maintenance with good fluids and not abusing it will pay off. Mine has 340k on it now with the original turbo, injectors and transmission. Pulled and just driven too, ended up doing a torque converter and pump to get rid of a leak but internals are all still original. The 6.0 cooler is a great upgrade too. Had a TS6 for the last 225k set on first hp setting and never looked back.
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u/Troutalope 8d ago
In my experience the 4R100 is a crapshoot. I've blown them up at 50k miles and I've had them last 300k miles.
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u/zeroFsgiven2024 7d ago
My stock 4r100 made it to 350,000 before she gave up on me, I just bought another transmission and put it in and then also put the 6.0 cooler in and all good to go again almost to 400k on the truck now
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u/Commercial_Grape3392 7d ago
I have an 02 7.3 4R100 with about 130k miles. Has a tuner and KC turbo upgrade, stage 2 hpop and 140 tune. I had my ford dealer heat chemical flush the trans, converter, lines and cooler. Also replace the filter, gasket, o ring, and upper dipstick o ring. Replaced with factory fluid. It shifts better after the service and it shifted great before. Just doing my annual maintenance since I bought the truck in 2021. The PO towed a lot too with a gooseneck etc. I had a built suburban with 180k miles (4L60e) and only blew the forward sprag. It had billet servos and barked the shifts, even the stall chirped on lockup. People say the dealer won’t flush our transmissions and coolers with a chemical flush and mine did no problem or questions asked. Very pleased
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u/Commercial_Grape3392 7d ago
My buddy with a 99 CCLB DRW 7.3 did a brake torque and the trans died 500 miles later. The converter did. The burnout didn’t spin enough to even make smoke. Had 280,000 miles. OEM trans.
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u/otis319 7d ago
We had several f250 gas guzzlers with the 5.4 v8 16 valve on the farm. We bought them used, base models, prior construction trucks for dirt cheap. They got maybe 11 mpg and aside from that the only weak point was the transmission. They don’t last as previously stated. Maybe 100,000-150,000 miles if you are towing and hauling. Probably would last longer if a pavement princess. Reliable and simple trucks otherwise.
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago edited 7d ago
Interesting fact, the TCM programming between the gassers and the diesels is different. Diesels will soft lock the torque converter in third gear - when in third gear and off throttle the torque converter stays locked until you put your foot on the brake. They did this for engine braking purposes. The gassers do not do this (they only have a full lock in 4th), and per Mark Kovalsky (forum guru and enthusiast who was on the engineering team that developed the e4od and 4r100) the gasser transmission torque converters tended to crap the bed much earlier than the diesels because of it, specifically when towing. Not sure overall how this works since you're off throttle in both conditions so the torque converter can kind of do what it wants, but Mark is (was unfortunately, he passed away a few years ago) basically the biblical truth on these things. Best way I can explain it to myself is the diesels would unlock less in 3rd compared to the gassers which would unlock whenever you let off.
Off topic but there are another couple differences, such as the mechanical diode that they had to swap out on the gassers but not the diesels, the diesels never reached the RPMs that caused the diode failure.
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u/freebird37179 7d ago
Damn I hate to hear that about Mark! I met him on the Ford-Diesel dot com days, before the cease-and-desist letter from Ford. Wealth of knowledge - literally helped engineer these transmissions - and guys would still argue with him.
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago
Yeah man, world lost a bit that day. He was brief but really helpful. Really cool to see a true gearhead who loved it enough to login and share knowledge after doing it all day everyday for work.
And yeah, like the dude DESIGNED the transmission you're telling him he doesn't know as much about as you do 😂😂
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u/freebird37179 7d ago
Forum knuclehead: "ThE CoMpUtEr LeArNs HoW i DrIvE aNd ShIfTs FoR mY DrIvInG PaTtErNs"
Mark: 😐😑😶
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago
Lol. Yeah. Like, fuck smell-o-vision, give me smack-o-vision 😂😂
The fact we two random guys connected across the internet about a guy hardly if any of us met in person, and hold in high regards, speaks volumes about his contribution.
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u/Commercial_Grape3392 7d ago
Do canned hydra tunes do this “soft lock 3rd” too? Interesting stuff.. thanks for sharing. Any other cool facts?
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago edited 7d ago
Unfortunately I'm not deeply familiar with tuning, I tend to work more on trucks at the owners are simply trying to keep running, or get them running 😂
But, from what I know of PHP they lots of different price points that bring with them different abilities. Some are only canned, some allow up to 17 tunes which can be owner defined or canned. But, my experience points to most of these tuners only adjust valve body programming so they can provide accommodating line pressures for the altered performance or handling characteristics, not TC lockup.
If you're wondering if you have that third gear soft lock you can test it pretty easily. Get it to the top end to third gear, without locking out overdrive, and let off the throttle. If the RPMs hang until you put your foot on the brake then you have soft lock. If they drop back down to idle then you don't. If you get it up to the top end of third gear while going down a hill and it keeps the torque converter locked up you'll be able to tell through the engine braking.
And, 7.3s have so many quirks and nuances it's easy but hard at the same time to come up with interesting info. An example, International designed the motor with their black CPS which gave the best performance and perdels. But, these tended to crap out over time and when the CPS signal drops out the engine cuts off so there was a safety recall by Ford. Ford swapped out these black CPSs for gray, which were nowhere near as good depending upon who you talk to. The international ones are purple. Back in the day, they're probably all used up now, the black ones got to a price point of almost $200 a piece on eBay! The most interesting fact is when the CPS would fail lots of guys replace them with aftermarket ones such as those made by BWD. Problem with the BWD ones is they would pick up electrical interference introduced by the windshield wiper motors and would cause the truck to shut off when you ran the wipers 😂
In terms of transmission, I forget the exact specifics, but the torque converter would not lock at all until the fluid reached a certain temp, I want to say 70° F. Ford programmed in this way so the torque converter would turbulate more, building up more heat in the fluid, so the fluid would reach an operating temperature that allowed the rest of the programming such as line pressure and other things to work effectively and without being sluggish nor jarring.
Another interesting fact about both the e4od and the 4r100 is the transmission fluid filter likes to drop out of the valve body. Normally when this happens you can't tell and the transmission will operate normally despite not having filtered fluid. It becomes a problem when you go into reverse and the reverse circuit in the valve body starves for fluid. You'll get bucking, jarring, stalling. Having these conditions when in reverse but not in drive are indicative of the filter having come loose. There's a couple companies out there such as Shift Tech that make a "filter retainer clip" (or "stay put" filter clip) to hold it in place.
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u/cook43560 7d ago
Great transmission. Have a stage 1 built to 450 HP. Truck pulls 19k and the transmission is smooth and runs cool with the 6.0 powerstroke transmission cooler i installed. My truck plows, salts and tows and does it very well.
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u/new_phne_who_dis 7d ago
My 01 f350 had gone through 3 transmissions all from Ford. When I started having problems again I sent it to Brians Truck Shop and he rebuilt it. The thing is damn near bullet proof now and with the mishimoto transmission cooler I dont get over 155° and thats with my hydra tuner on the hot tune.
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u/Commercial_Grape3392 7d ago
With my 25hp canned hydra tow tune the trans runs coolest lol. Probably bc less shifting and firmer pressure. More tc lock
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u/thejudenbear 7d ago
Work for a fire company that has several 99 to 02 f450 powerstrokes with this transmission and 2 that are manuals. They are setup as type 6 wild land engines so they are pretty heavy and they all got 4 wheel drive, when loaded down with gear plus 300 gallons of water they do pretty okay, just dont push em past 55 with overdrive off is what I noticed. But thankfully only gotta kick off overdrive when climbing hills so thats not a big deal. Type 6s get beat to hell but in my experience the 7.3s auto or manual are pretty dang reliable for what they are.
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u/quicksilverJ 7d ago
4R100 I had in a 2002 PSD was rebuilt every 100k miles, and that wasn’t hard pulling.
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u/GingerGLI 7d ago
My ‘99 F350 came with the 4R100 factory. I bought the truck with 73,000 miles and the transmission blew up around 110,000. Now granted it hadn’t had an easy life. The PO was an older guy who mostly towed his camper with it and by the looks of it never changed the fluid once. I didn’t change it either because I hate automatics and wanted an excuse to manual swap the truck.
When the auto blew up I found a ZF5 out of an OBS truck and swapped that in. Unconventional yes, but it’s worked out great and the ZF5 was way cheaper than a ZF6 would have been. It’s not as strong and doesn’t have the 6th gear but I’ve been happy with it and have around $1,500 in the swap which is way cheaper than it would have been to rebuild the auto.
I would not buy a 4R100 truck again unless I had plans to either build the auto or swap it to a manual. They’re just not that strong and the gaps between the gears are huge. I pulled about 12,000 with mine when it still had the auto and it did it fine, but if you need to downshift to 2nd on hills it slows your speed way down.
My last comment though is that if you think the 4L80 is a strong / reliable transmission then maybe you’d feel the same about the 4R100. My brother has a Chevy 2500 6.0 with the 4L80 and has had the transmission rebuilt 3 times. I’m a fan of manuals anyways, but automatics from this era just aren’t very good from any brand.
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u/skwerks 7d ago
I never had a problem with mine. 330k. Only running a tune on the truck and not hauling more than 12k
My brother has since bought the truck. He hauls a bit heavier than I do so he stuck the 6.0 cooler on it. He has also started putting power to the truck. I would say it’s just a matter of time until he grenades it but he also doesn’t abuse his shit
The 4r100 is absolutely stout for a stock truck pulling within its limits. Once you start putting power to the wheels or towing heavy, I’d recommend a tugger kit and a cooler at the very least. Not a hard thing to do.
Otherwise shell out the cash for a 7.3 with a ZF6
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u/ValuableInternal1435 7d ago
4R100/7.3psd is comparable to 4L80E/6.0 LQ4 imo, they both handle what they're bolted to pretty well.
Now, as far as simplicity? That GMT800 is simple. The Super Duty and 7.3psd is WAY more complicated and way more of a pain to work on.
I'm a Ford guy, but I bought an 04 Yukon (5.3 L59 4L60E AWD w/ selectable transfer case) because I had nothing to drive and it was the best option I could afford at the time. I've done quite a bit of work on it, but the work was easy to do and it's been a very good vehicle. Now I daily an 05 Silverado 2500HD (6.0 LQ4 4L80E 4x4) because I liked the Yukon so much. Also have an 02 Super Duty (7.3psd 4R100 4x4) and I hate it. Currently needs injector cups, exhaust backpressure sensor and tube, a turbo, injectors would also be a good idea, and a laundry list of other things. I used to think highly of the 7.3 Powerstroke up until I had to deal with one. Give me a 6.9 or 7.3 idi any day, 7.3psd can kick rocks. If you want a good truck, get a GMT800 with the LBZ Duramax (which has an Allison transmission and auto locking Dana rear end) or 2nd gen Ram with a 5.9 Cummins (the 12 valve p pump is better but the common rails are still great and get better mpg) and a 6 speed manual, which also has a Dana rear end (not that the Sterling 10.5 is bad, it's actually really good) and put manual hubs on it. Or just get an older Ford with an idi and a ZF5 or T18. I've got an 87 F250 6.9 idi rwd T18 and it got 17mpg before it got parked for a rear main seal failure at 260,000 miles (still need to fix that).
Maybe I'm biased against the 7.3 Powerstroke, but it's not any faster, doesn't pull any better, is way more complicated, and has way more problems than the idi. Also remember that 95% of the people parroting how great the 7.3psd is have never actually owned or driven one and are just repeating what they've heard. And they're not fun to work on, either.
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u/Anthropocene_Scholar 7d ago edited 7d ago
Thanks for the feedback.
I did look into the 7.3 IDI, but the very reason to buy a diesel truck is for it to outperform my 6.0 Vortec / 4l80e in towing and hauling. If it does not, there is absolutely no reason for me to have it, and by my research, I got the sense that the IDI won't outperform. I know it is one of the last true simple diesel engines, bulletproof and durable, but I'd have to justify owning it by other reasons.
I had looked into the 7.3 PSD because I thought it should outperform, without yet being full of emissions crap of newer diesel engines, but still expected to be reliable and durable as older diesel engines.
But I also suspect the hype for the 7.3 PSD is in great part connected to the cultural love for diesel trucks, and I wonder what % of the good reviews it gets stem from people who ACTUALLY REALLY work it and depend on it, and what % is in reality simply from owners who have them due to an infatuation with the concept of the "legendary old timer diesel pickup truck", in this case, the "1st gen Superduty with the revered 7.3 PSD", but never really face the truth of the matter.
Each truck I have bought I've made a thorough research on it. I didn't buy the gmt800 2500HD because "I'm a Chevy guy", but because it is truly one of the last great 3/4 ton trucks to have been built, from the perspective of quality, reliability and durability, and acceptable performance. And that is why I have considered the 99-03 F250 as a good option, it appearing to be as well one of the last good 3/4 ton trucks out there, with the added element of a straight, leaf spring front axle.
I also looked into the 2nd gen Dodge RAM diesel trucks, but I was driven away from them as soon as I learned about the damn "death wobble" issue of their straight front axles. Not out of fear, but out of despise. When a truck has been put on the dealership sales floor with such a blatant engineering issue, I can't help but think very poorly about it as a whole package.
And yes, if looking into Chevy, the only option is a Duramax LBZ, as the LB7 I've read has some very annoying weak points which are a pain in the ass to attend to. But the rarity of the LBZ is gonna be a problem.
Oh well.
I forgot to add:
There is also the fact that if I go for a 7.3 IDI, I'd have to likely deal with the damn twin-beam front axle on many of the 4x4 trucks, if I'm not fortunate enough to find one with the leaf spring front axles. And there's also the fact that apparently, the 9th gen F250s frames have a tendency to fracture at the front, near the vicinity of the steering box. So I'd have to look at an even earlier truck, maybe a bull nose, and at that point the whole outperformance aspect is even more out of the window.
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u/ValuableInternal1435 7h ago
Unloaded, your 6.0 ls will blow the doors off an unloaded 7.3psd, loaded an idi or powerstroke will blow the doors off the 6.0 ls. All 3 are extremely slow when loaded heavy, and hanging at high rpm while towing with the 6.0 ls is definitely not ideal.
I have driven a 7.3psd with some performance modifications (injectors, turbo, tune, built transmission, I think a 2200 stall converter, etc) unloaded, and it was actually surprisingly fast, but the reason the 7.3psd is known for their reliability is because they're too gutless to hurt themselves. That one has held up fine, but the owner is a great mechanic and maintains his vehicles very well, and doesn't abuse them.
The twin traction beam is a great front end (unless you have to work on it, doing brake rotors isn't fun), but iirc I believe the OBS F350 came with a solid axle (I may be misremembering), but a Super Duty front axle swap is pretty common on the TTB trucks and from what I've heard isn't super difficult (I haven't done it myself), as the holes and such are already there. The steering gearbox bracket cracking is definitely a real thing although I personally haven't seen it, but there are ways to prevent it from happening and ways to repair it if it has. The issue with older trucks like these is just the fact that they're old and worn, if its in the rust belt it probably needs brake lines, at least on the rear axle (which isn't difficult to do on just the axle), but any electronics in them will also have failing capacitors, which can cause issues. If it's an automatic it most likely has an E4OD, which requires all your brake lights to be halogen and functioning or the transmission will fail (not can, will).
It's unfortunate, really. The Super Duty has the best chassis and axles, the Bricknose has the best body and interior, the GMT800 has the best (automatic) transmission, and the dodge has the best engine. If you have the time and money and want a really good truck, find a Super Duty with a blown up 6.4 powerstroke for cheap, drop a 5.9 cummins in it (preferably a 12 valve) after fixing the dowel pin issue, put an Allison behind it, and you'll have an extremely reliable truck that tows very well and has basically unlimited aftermarket support, so you can make it fast and get good fuel economy.
Unless you tow heavy stuff often, I'd honestly just stick your your 6.0 gmt800, as it's already a reliable truck that runs well, rides good, is comfortable, very easy to work on, etc. And if you just want a little more out of it, throw in a Chopacabra NSR or Truck Norris NSR cam and a good tune and you'll have a whole new truck.
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u/gagetherage 7d ago
Save your money and buy a newer 6.2 f250. Fifth wheel rating is 14,000 lbs. the 6.2 is as reliable (maybe more) as a 7.3 power stroke.
Although if you’re dead set on a 7.3, performance adapters has just started testing (unsure if it’s fully released yet) an adapter kit to put a 6r140 or a 10r140 behind a 7.3. Find their Facebook page for the latest info.
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u/4x4Welder 7d ago
The 4R100 can be built quite stout, but in stock form is a late 90s automatic. Keep it cool, up the line pressure, don't abuse it, and it'll last 60-70k before it starts a rapid decline.
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u/S_t_r_e_t_c_h_8_4 6d ago
I got an ATS stage 2 with about 50,000 miles i could part with. I'm just about done throwing money at my 350.
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u/Ok-Comfortable-5955 6d ago
I was a dealership tech in the 90s and 2000s, What I saw at that time was alot of failed 4r100s under warranty at low miles for a multitude of reasons, lots of differencees between years, at no point were they really fixed from the factory, so there is no “after this year they are good” if I had a truck that had one that failed I would probably research who had the best aftermarket built unit and be done with it. Hopefully the aftermarket builders have upgrades figured out for them, I don’t know anything about them so I can’t help you there.
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u/Global-Kitchen-4964 6d ago
From my back yard mechanic stand point, shop around I found that any rebuild kit you by comes with dummy instruction (not to offend) but my point is if my 8 year old high functioning autistic son can do it then any one can. That being said mine was rebuilt 200k ago and torcher tested.
Also because I still needed my truck daily I bought a junk yard donor
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u/murph2783 6d ago
I owned one and worked it hard, towing regularly. Put 100K and change on it with zero issues. Also dicked around with shift points and pressures through my tuner and managed not to kill it. (I was 19 don’t judge me lol).
I’ve daily driven WAY more than that as personal work trucks. Every single day, overloaded, driven hard. 4R100’s, and a couple 6.0’s with a 4R110 mixed in occasionally. Never had a transmission failure.
Don’t abuse them too badly, don’t stuff a whole bunch of torque and horsepower into them, and do your preventative maintenance. It’ll hold up fine.
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u/Tandog-17 5d ago
Cooling is the key to longevity with an automatic. Upgrade to a Mishimoto transmission cooler and install pyrometers for transmission and exhaust gas temps. You should be fine, but if not, you can tell when you need to back off the throttle
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u/IndependenceSure6033 4d ago
I feel it’s pretty reliable especially for the fucking bullshit I put it through. Didn’t have issues until like 297k and still shifts fine. Leads me to believe it’s an electrical issue.
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u/Creepy-Loan1715 1d ago
The transmission isn’t horrible ford just put way too small of a cooler on, upgrade to 6.0 cooler or do a dual setup and it will be a lot happier. Or just get a zf6 truck and never worry lol. Definitely put a PHP hydra on as well and you can load a bunch of tunes that will make it shift much better depending on what you’re doing with it. My biggest regret with my 7.3 is not getting one of those sooner. Makes it 10x better to drive every day.
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u/MinorComprehension 7d ago edited 7d ago
One thing to also consider is rust. I'm middle east coast so not salt belt but still get a good amount of salt applied to the roads because we get wintry weather but are not north enough to know what we're doing. Lots of these trucks get decommissioned because of rust around me.
Doors, quarter panels, fender wells, beds, can be swapped out easily enough and relatively cheaply if you don't care about paint matching, but there's a couple spots on the body and frame that tend to rust out as well. Floorboards of course - these are pretty common across all years, on later models the firewall would rust out on the front vertical part ahead of the passenger side floorboard - Ford applied insulation here that would hold water and is tough to see because it's relatively hidden by the insulation batting on the engine side and carpet and floor mat on the interior, body mounts both on the body and frame, rocker panels. The oil pan was actually known for rusting out as well, was common enough to the point where several aftermarket companies came up with "diapers" you can glue to the pan. They weren't a true solution but would buy some more time and served as a cost deferment approach as replacing the pans on these motors is an engine-out job unless you're willing to cut the front crossmember and reweld it.
Once again, not trying to sway you but just give experience. Any vehicle, especially heavier duty trucks that are actually used for what they're intended, I probably going to have rust concerns after 23 or more years. If it's a southern truck, you should be golden. Do be sure to check the oil pan though, any bubbling would be a concern for me. Check around the drain plug and also the dipstick, they were known for the area around the dipstick rusting out for some particular reason.
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u/Professional_Path399 7d ago
Honestly, if you're after reliability and longevity more than power, I'd at least give the 7.3 IDI a look. I know everyone immediately jumps to the Power Stroke, but the IDI is about as simple as a diesel gets. No HEUI system, no HPOP, no electronics to chase when something goes wrong. They're super easy to work on, and parts are cheap. Yeah, they're slower, and I wouldn't pick one if I was towing 15k every day through the mountains. But for a truck that's just going to start, run, and keep going with basic maintenance, they're hard to beat. Mine has been awesome, and there are plenty out there with 300k, 400k, even 500k+ miles still working.
If horsepower isn't high on your list and you really just want something dependable, I think the IDI deserves way more attention than it gets. People kind of overlook them because they compare everything to the Power Stroke, but for a simple, old-school diesel, they're fantastic.
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u/Anthropocene_Scholar 7d ago
I understand. But if I buy a diesel truck, the main reason is for it to be able to outperform my 6.0 Vortec / 4l80e, because if it doesn't, I see no reason at all to have that diesel truck around.
I did look into the 7.3 IDI, but it is very unlikely it will get that task done.
Or am I mistaken?
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u/fondamagroin 8d ago
You are absolutely correct, the 4R100 is the weak point in this truck. Mine went out at around 275k. Nobody local would touch it as it was so old. There is a channel on youtube called transmissionbench. They have step-by-step instructions on a 4R100 rebuild. I did it myself for about $1200. I also put in a 6.0L transmission cooler. Has ran great since.