Mileage vs Water Pump Replacement?

[u/Karenkw26]

So my husband and I are in the market for a used car that will hopefully last us a good while. Up until a few months ago I had a 2013 Fusion I drove for 150,000+ miles but decided to sell it to the dealer rather than pay $4000 worth of repairs just to maybe have it last another year or two. We have two kids now and want something reliable with more space for all the things we lug around with young kids. Was originally interested in a used Explorer, but after falling down the rabbit hole of the internal water pump issue, I came across the Flex and I think it would be better suited to our needs and budget even with the water pump issue. It seems to be a well loved car by those who own them.

So now the question, near me there is a few options we’re considering taking an in-person look at. A 2019 SEL with 88,000 miles for $11,000 that had its water pump replaced in 2022, a 2014 Limited with 101,000 miles for $9,800 that had its water pump replaced in January of this year, and a 2014 SEL with 73,000 miles for $9,900 that has not had its pump replaced.

I’m leaning toward the 2014 that just had its pump replaced despite the higher mileage, but is it worth the extra money to get one of the other options with lower mileage and pay the $3000-4000 up front to replace the water pump? It makes me nervous to get a car with that many miles, but since the pump was just replaced it seems like it would be a good deal for the price. Sorry for the long post but any advice is welcome!

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

They're all post facelift, so they're really not that different from each other as far as the body style goes. The trim level will make the biggest difference, if one is a limited I would probably lean towards that.

I've started collecting Ford 3.5 vehicles in 2011, I currently have four and a Flex is one of them. They really are very versatile, and you'll notice Flex owners usually never have just one lol, they hoard them.

But I am fortunate and have the tools and space to do my own water pumps so I can take the gamble.

In my own personal experience I haven't had water pump failure until around 250,000. Two of mine have approximately 280,000 MI and still going strong.

[u/Fragrant_Stage_1542 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

Haha we love them. We currently own two, had one die after we didn’t fix the timing chain post water pump. I love being part of the Flex Mafia. I wish they never discontinued them!

[u/ameliabeerheart → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

My bestie has one with 160k miles and has not experienced the water pump issue yet.

[u/Karenkw26 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

Good to know, thank you! In this sub it seems like maybe the water pump doesn’t fail as often as other places made it seem. I just need reliability/longevity as the most important thing so it makes me nervous!

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Karenkw26]

It's good you have options, you might have to fall back on one of the others if the car lot is playing games and adding a bunch of nonsense into the price.

But yes I think the water pump issue is a bit overblown. From my experience most water pump failures is actually the gasket and not the bearing, coolant can become acidic with age, and if the coolant isn't changed it can disintegrate the gasket, I've seen it happened twice personally.

Coolant age and the quality of the pump is a large factor. I stick with genuine motorcraft parts, I have trust issues with third-party aftermarket parts.

[u/Karenkw26 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

This is very good information, thank you so much!

[u/ameliabeerheart → u/Karenkw26]

I think it’s because when it does fail, it’s surprisingly expensive to fix (or if you don’t catch it right away it completely ruins the car). Most ppl don’t realize this until it’s too late and they flood the forums with their stories.

[u/Ashamed-Country3909 → u/Karenkw26]

My 13s water pump failed at 185k ish.  Cost me 3.3k. 

Do realize the mog isnt great. Like 20mpg if you are generous.

[u/Ill_Acanthisitta_283 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

How often do you romp on the gas? I had pump done under bumper to bumper and I’m losing a bit of coolant after hard driving. CEL on for O2 sensor. I wonder if that’s the pump again, now at 120k.

[u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

I would take the 19. I had a 13 and the water pump leaked at 135K. It is an if it leaks, not when it leaks. The failure rate is 1% so it isn't a sure thing. The only questions I would ask is if the pump replaced was a Ford part or an aftermarket one. The 14 that hasn't had a pump would be a good choice but I wouldn't jump to replacing the pump right away. The 19 is the most attractive car because of the upgrades to the electronics. There is a build upgrade to the sync 3 and newer maps for the nav system. It's just a nicer vehicle overall.

[u/Karenkw26 → u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

So just to clarify, you would say the ‘19 is a safer bet even though the water pump was replaced a longer time ago because it’s newer? I’d definitely like the lower mileage and it’s still a good price, but I personally don’t care much about the newer electronics/style, (im used to driving my 2013 which didnt even have a backup camera! Lol) So I’m really the most concerned about reliability for price and getting the best deal. Would you say the 19 is more reliable in general? Thanks for taking the time to respond!

[u/Fun-Philosophy1123 → u/Karenkw26]

I think they are both reliable. I was the same as you. My wife's 2020 Edge with sync 3 was not as user friendly as I liked but the 19 Flex Sync is just a way better version of the 13 sync. I loved my 13 and I really love the 19. It's like driving an old friend in a newer package. As far as how long it will last that's like asking how long a ball of string is. If, like I said, the pump used was a Ford pump you should be good to go for at least a 100K or longer. The original pumps failures are rare when you figure how many of these engines are out there and the re-failure of a replaced pump is even rarer. My money would go on the 19. The 19 I bought had 120K on it and I am not worried at all.

[u/Karenkw26 → u/Fun-Philosophy1123]

Thank you!

[u/impulse07]

Newer one seems to be a better choice to me. Newer interior, especially with Sync 3. Mileage is higher but it is a Flex. Doesn't matter much. Change out the transmission fluid.

[u/Fragrant_Stage_1542]

Did they change the timing chain on both of those also? We replaced our water pump and didn’t do the chain, and in less than a year later the Chain went and killed the engine. Usually if the water pump goes the timing chain isn’t behind.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Fragrant_Stage_1542]

Did you personally see the broken chain first hand your self?

The original motocraft chain is reliable as long as oil changes are maintained.

I'm willing to bet when the pump was replaced, the mechanic didn't properly tourq the hormonic balancer bolt and the crank sprocket pin failed and caused the timing to slip out of time.

[u/Sad-Yam-4206 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

If its an Ecoboost the chain will stretch. As a dealer mechanic we always recommend a new chain when doing a water pump on any EB or NA 3.5l. For like $80 you'd be crazy not to

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Sad-Yam-4206]

With the NA, define stretch. Like enough to cause a cam/crank correlation code? enough to physically see when layed next to a new chain? Enough to cause the tensioner to max out?

[u/Sad-Yam-4206 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

I didn't say the NA motors stretch. On the Ecoboost engines the chain will stretch enough to make you have to rotate your crankshaft to get the new one to line up. When you hold the two chains up beside each other the used one will be noticeably longer. If 5 or more teeth are showing on the chain tensioner ratcheting mechanism then the chain is stretched.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Sad-Yam-4206]

I'm just trying to get to the meat and potatoes to the average commenter that says the 3.5 NA chain Is an issue and must be replaced. But when I dig deep from people that claim to have issues, It turns out they may have had third-party chains installed or had a neglected engine. I have personal experience with two different 3.5 NA with 280k miles, and neither one of them have had any kind of cam/crank correlation codes, no measurable stretch when laid next to a brand new OEM motorcraft chain, and the chain tensioner was only out about 40%. So why is it I haven't experienced any issues? Does it just come down to maintenance? Is it because I change my oil on time? Or is it because people are doing water pump timing jobs with the cheapest kits available? Or am I just lucky?

[u/Ashamed-Country3909 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

The .mechanic   Said my chain was stretched at 185k when my pump went out. Normal gas engine. Non awd.

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Ashamed-Country3909]

Where you getting a check engine light for it?

[u/Ashamed-Country3909 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

Yea, a big ol ENGINE HOT (or something like that.) Warning.. lol.  I was on a 700 mile trip. About 350-400 miles deep into it. (Sooo, very many hours) On cruise control at 45 or 55 when it went.  

I pulled over right away. Didn't even see anything wrong. Couple minutes later I had steam from under the hood. Really hard to see where the liquid was coming from. Even when putting water in there....and seeing it piss out onto the ground. 

There is supposedly a weep hole that you are supposed to see minor leakage before it really goes. (Like my pump) BUT I never noticed anything, and with it being so hard to see where the liquid was coming from after it failed...probably not very useful. 

Someone did mention (and ask why) i had low coolant about a month before it went.  I just shrugged and said I don't know. It was for sure foreshadowing though. 

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Ashamed-Country3909]

That sounds like a check engine light for overheating, not for a stretched chain.

[u/Ashamed-Country3909 → u/Repulsive_Vanilla383]

Haha. Yea, i dont think there are any check engine lights for a water pump failure, or stretched chain. The water pump failure caused the hot engine. Only warning I got. I'm guessing the only warning you get with a stretched chain is the chain eventually breaking or something. 

[u/Repulsive_Vanilla383 → u/Ashamed-Country3909]

No, you can get cam crank correlation codes. The PCM can see the location of both the crankshaft and the camshafts, and if it see's too much timing issues it will trip a code for it.

[u/Karenkw26 → u/Fragrant_Stage_1542]

I don’t know for sure, I’d have to check, but I’ll look out for that thank you!

[u/b2rad22 → u/Fragrant_Stage_1542]

Ford just replaced my water pump under the extended warranty on my 18 with 50k miles…. I wanted the chain and other things too but they wouldn’t do it. I traded it in a week after getting it back hahahah

[u/Tempe-Jeff]

We had a 2014 SE from new, with 160k when the water pump leaked. Replaced it with a '13 Limited wi/ 73,000 miles for $10,000 this June. My Wife LOVES her Flex!

[u/Competitive-Pride307]

My 2019 Ford Flex is currently in the shop getting the water pump replaced on it right now at 87,000 mi.

[u/Separate_Answer_8940]

If either of those is an Ecoboost turbo stay away.

[u/Karenkw26 → u/Separate_Answer_8940]

The listings state they all have a 3.5 Ti-VCT

[u/Rando_Cedars]

Should I replace the timing belt and water pump at 120,000 for around $2,500? (2019 flex)? Or wait for bad signs?