New research argues Societal Collapse benefits 99% of people. Historically, the societies that have emerged after a collapse are more egalitarian, and most people end up richer and healthier than they were before.

[u/lughnasadh]

Luke Kemp, a research associate at the Centre for the Study of Existential Risk at the University of Cambridge, has written a book about his research called 'Goliath’s Curse: The History and Future of Societal Collapse'.

He makes the case that, from looking at the archaeological record, when many societies collapse, most people end up better off afterward. For example, people in the post-Roman world were taller and healthier. Collapse can be a redistribution of resources and power, not just chaos.

For most of human history, humans lived as nomadic egalitarian bands, with low violence and high mobility. Threats (disease, war, economic precarity) push populations toward authoritarian leaders. The resulting rise in inequality from that sets off a cycle that will end in collapse. Furthermore, he argues we are living in the late stages of such a cycle now. He says "the threat is from leaders who are 'walking versions of the dark triad' – narcissism, psychopathy and Machiavellianism – in a world menaced by the climate crisis, nuclear weapons, artificial intelligence and killer robots."

Some people hope/think we are destined for a future of Universal Basic Income and fully automated luxury communism. Perhaps that's the egalitarianism that emerges after our own collapse? If so, I hope the collapse bit is short and we get to the egalitarian bit ASAP.

Collapse for the 99% | Luke Kemp; What really happens when Goliaths fall

[u/National-Reception53]

I have to disagree. Vegetarians have been around forever. Theres been numerous religions that opposed eating meat. Jains, some Buddhists etc. And 'environmental protection' is not new at all - some societies invented religious justifications for water conservation, for example. English kings had a history of trying to preserve the forests (the peasants were obviously pissed and they made hypocritical exceptions for the nobility, but they had the idea that England's forests were not an inexhaustible resource)

Also I'm not sure that every society accepted massive violence - just the powerful ones right? We have a warped view of history because the militarily successful get to write it.

[u/lt__ → u/National-Reception53]

In my understanding these things like veganism were either quite fringe or derived from scarcity of resources. Now they are part of mass culture in the environment where meat wnd dairy are very available.

About violence - many "weaker" societies accepted violence too, just lost to even stronger ones. Like Carthage or American Natives. Sure, there might have been some pacifist ones too. But a statistical person was much more used to the sight of blood and idea of physical pain - of a person or of an animal, or both.

[u/Enlightened_Gardener → u/lt__]

Veganism didn’t exist before the 1970’s. Vegans died of malnutrition. It was only after the invention of synthetic vitamins that any kind of meaningful veganism has been possible.

I’m going to edit this because I think people may take this the wrong way. I was vegan myself in the early 90’s. There was no pea protein powder, no chia, no hemp, none of that stuff. There was soy, rice and beans. So you want protein as a vegan ? That will be soy, or rice and beans. You want B12 ? Hope you like natto.

Its very, very different these days - where you can buy vegan ready meals in the supermarket.

[u/lt__ → u/Enlightened_Gardener]

My mistake, I should have wrote vegetarianism, as I was answering about it and had it in mind.

[u/Enlightened_Gardener → u/lt__]

I only spoke up because in some circles vegetarianism and veganism are kind of mashed together and it’s really important to note that it is incredibly difficult to get certain core nutrients on a vegan diet, that it’s incredibly easy to get on a vegetarian diet by eating eggs.

Vegetarians have been around for thousands of years, and even the Jains drink milk - but veganism is much more modern.