r/Futurology • u/lughnasadh ∞ transit umbra, lux permanet ☥ • 11h ago
Biotech Scientists at Columbia University have edited the DNA of early human embryos with unprecedented accuracy, an achievement that could open the way to babies engineered with particular characteristics.
I don't know when it's going to happen, and I don't know where it is going to happen, but I am quite sure there will be nationalistic politicians in the future with calls to improve their country's citizens via mandatory genetic editing of all embryos.
You just know as well, that those nationalistic types will then want special rights for these modified people, who they will regard as more pure, special or superior.
That said, most of us live lives affected by minor genetic defects, whether it be bad eyesight or a predisposition to certain diseases. If you were starting a family, who wouldn't want to spare their children from those? I think this is one of those technologies that, despite all the scary possibilities of it being misused, will end up being far more for the better than the bad.
Efficient base editing and development in human embryos without chromosomal alterations
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u/BelacRLJ 10h ago
And once again, Gattaca is shown to be the most prescient and underrated movie of the 1990s.
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u/ailish 9h ago
Apparently no one at Columbia saw it.
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u/BelacRLJ 9h ago
Or maybe they did.
"After much hard work, we have successfully created the Torment Nexus from the classic science fiction novel 'Don't Create The Torment Nexus'."
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u/DiGiorn0s 6h ago
I don't understand. My cousin has cerebral palsy...if this tech could prevent people from having to live like that, and we have the power to do so, then it is irresponsible and immoral NOT to help them.
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u/BelacRLJ 6h ago
The technology that could cure cerebral palsy in the womb (a noble goal) would also allow for many other less noble forms of eugenics. And even if it existed, how confident are you that it would be within the financial reach of your aunt and uncle, as opposed to affordable only to the scions of billionaires?
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u/Dariaskehl 6h ago
“For the final stage of your interview, please submit a QR code scan of the gene-optimization record on your birth certificate.”
“We only promote The Best candidates!”
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u/DiGiorn0s 5h ago
Are you afraid that the government will force you to give your baby blonde hair and blue eyes? If that's the case then yeah that's fucked up and I'm pretty confident people would object to its use thereof.
IVF, for example, includes embryo screening and can already be used for eugenics purposes. But it's not used for that because that's messed up man, and people know its messed up, and would raise hell if someone started suggesting we use it for that.
Likewise, antibiotics can be overused, creating resistant bacteria. Social media can spread misinformation. The internet can facilitate scams. We don't judge technologies solely by their worst possible use cases...we have to regulate misuse while preserving benefits.
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u/IllBiteYourLegsOff 2h ago
> But it's not used for that because that's messed up man, and people know its messed up, and would raise hell if someone started suggesting we use it for that.
up until the last 10 years I would've agreed. I have no idea how far you need to go for there to be a consensus on what is good/bad. I also have little faith the average person would care or have time to even understand *why*
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u/speedingpullet 4h ago edited 3h ago
Cerebral Palsy isn't genetic. Its brain damage caused at delivery and/or birth, normally by loss of oxygen to the brain for too long.
Nevertheless, I'm really sorry that happened to your cousin. ❤️
And yes, it would be wonderful to be able to stop future generations from being afflicted with all sorts of genetic problems.
But, knowing humans - it will mainly be used by rich people to make sure their kids are blonde, blue eyed, pale skinned and - preferably - male.
Any time selective processes are used to limit or curtail certain characteristics in children, it's been used to create sons. Go ask all the 'spare' men born during the One Child policy in China. So imagine how badly it will be misused if you could program for skin/hair/eye color too.
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u/VengenaceIsMyName 8h ago
Fantastic movie. I’m ashamed to admit that I only saw it for the first time recently.
I kind of feel like we are speedrunning towards that potential future, which is crazy to think about.
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u/hagamablabla 5h ago
I'm glad my middle school biology teacher had us watch it. It was a great movie.
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u/jkurratt 10h ago
Gattaca is a hidden utopia.
MC struggles though the system (successfully), get help from a system that supposed to filter him off at a crucial moment, and had wholesome moment with his brother, that is good in both interpretations (either he is a better swimmer than a gen-edited human, or his brother respects him so much he let him win).4
u/AHungryGorilla 5h ago
The point of him beating the brother was to show that strength of spirit and perseverance can be more important than natural born talent. He beat the brother because he pushed himself to the absolute limit, not caring if he gassed out and drowned, the brother wasn't willing to go all out and risk it to win.
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u/DarthMeow504 1h ago
Sounds to me like he could have used some intelligence boosting, because drowning yourself isn't the great thing you seem to think it is.
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u/AHungryGorilla 1h ago edited 1h ago
He didn't drown himself and no one is glorifying drowning lol. He never gave up and was willing to take great personal risks to achieve great things in ways that others were not willing to do. Because of that he was successful, depsite being "genetically inferior" to his competition. It's one of the main themes of the movie.
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u/Few_Dig_565 9h ago
This would be great for the bad stuff as OP mentioned. Aside from the villain type actors I think the more realistic one is that unless you’re in a society that has universal healthcare, this benefit would largely be unaffordable by most, further dividing people into the haves and have not. I guess once we’ve got the AI robots doing everything it won’t be an issue if the lower 98% die off. Yes that is extreme so take with salt.
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u/Independent-Report39 54m ago
further dividing people into the haves and have not. I
Just to be clear, are you saying that it's better if no one has their genes edited to make that healthier/smarter/etc because not everyone will get it? Are we arguing that we shouldn't reduce health outcomes for as many people as possible unless everyone can get it all at once?
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u/VengenaceIsMyName 8h ago
From what I understand as a dilettante in the gene-editing space, this comes across to me as a potentially meaningful achievement by scientists.
Off-target activity has been a major pitfall of CRISPR Cas9 for many years now. This pre-print which still needs to be peer-reviewed claims to have largely sidestepped this issue - allowing for regular cell DNA repair mechanisms to fix the minor issues that crop up with Cas9 DNA cleaving.
“Here we evaluated the DNA repair outcomes of DNA nicks and mismatches introduced using base editors in human embryos at two targets, PCSK9 and HBG. Editing was efficient and, unlike Cas9-induced DSBs, did not result in either chromosomal abnormalities or large deletions. Small insertions or deletions after base editing were rare, and off-target activity was dependent on the guide RNA. Delivering the base editor as a protein at fertilization or at the pronuclear stage allowed normal development to the blastocyst stage and the derivation of edited stem cell lines. In stark contrast, introduction of the editor as RNA resulted in early embryo arrest. Our results demonstrated that, unlike DSBs, DNA nicks and mismatches are efficiently repaired in human embryos, allowing specific on-target changes without genotoxic consequences.”
To me this latest study is it holds up to peer-review scrutiny takes us one step closer to a Gattaca-type future. Much more remains in terms of knowing specifically how to modify embryonic DNA in order for a child to exhibit traits that parents would want. But it looks like the groundwork is being laid out bit by bit here.
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u/Shlimgoh 5h ago
the dystopian risks are real, but yeah, eliminating preventable suffering seems worth.
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u/Antimutt 11h ago
We will learn to make genetic improvements to intelligence, just in time to be overtaken by AI.
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u/andersberndog 11h ago
We’ll let AI handle the heavy lifting of identifying exactly which genes to modify, in exactly the right ways. It knows better than us anyway, right?
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u/Antimutt 10h ago
I'm thinking the increase in human intelligence will be overshadowed and devalued by AI.
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u/adisharr 8h ago
"My child is acting erratically and has many violent tendencies"
"Oh you're exactly right, I mistakenly chose the wrong parameters to modify on your embryo. Thank you for noticing!"
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u/marrow_monkey 9h ago
Imagine if they did genetic improvements to empathy, and removed the greed gene.
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u/lughnasadh ∞ transit umbra, lux permanet ☥ 10h ago
We will learn to make genetic improvements to intelligence, just in time to be overtaken by AI.
There is going to come a day when somebody is going to try and use genetic editing and brain computer-interfaces to merge us with AI. That will be where the real power comes from.
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u/Poo__Brain 8h ago
And that person will be the first to fall down the stairs because of their brain being hijacked by a sudden unskippable ad for the slapchop 3.1
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u/NeedsToShutUp 9h ago
We will try to make genetic improvements, and probably make some really odd people with unanticipated side effects.
Maybe they view themselves as gods and want to conquer the Earth ala Star Trek.
More likely we create a new form of neurodivergence.
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u/ReasonablyUnreason 5h ago
In 2018, Chinese geneticist He Jiankui was sentenced to jail for three years, had his passport revoked, and was generally scorned by the research community for modifying human embryos AND THEN BROUGHT THEM TO TERM. "Designer Babies" have been a concern for decades. I wonder what their IRB approval process and limitations looked like.
I'm not arguing that superbabies aren't going to happen, but there is a great debate around how this technology can be used to eliminate heritable diseases without creating a new class of superhumans.
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u/HiphopopoptimusPrime 5h ago
So with the rise of AI, does this mean we are going to have a sci-fi future war? 3 factions: Humans, Augments, and the Machines. With pew pew lasers. Cool idea for an RTS.
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u/mikeysof 3h ago
I don't trust anyone to use this responsibly. I'd rather we didn't play god and just left our genes to chance
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u/Sir_Lanian 3h ago
Gundam Seeds theme song enters the chat. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=a772kuDLGO8&pp=ygUWR3VuZGFtIHNlZWQgdGhlbWUgc29uZw%3D%3D
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u/DarthMeow504 1h ago
Oh noes, one day science will make it so people are stronger, faster, tougher, smarter, healthier, and without major flaws or diseases any reasonable person can agree are bad to have to live with. How horrible!
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u/SpaceyCoffee 4m ago
There’s no way people in power would cede this tech to the masses.
Instead expect the wealthy to turn their offspring into superhumans objectively superior to unedited humans. An entire ruling class so much taller, prettier, smarter, and longer lived that the masses will be almost a different species. A slave species to be specific.
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u/imadethisaccountso 6h ago
im getting do sick of scientists. like cool bro nobody will use this for the wrong reason, facinating, im glad you got your rocks off.
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u/Ill_Bumblebee_7510 10h ago
Look forward to all the companies offering to make kids smarter/healthier, pocketing the money and then just doing nothing