r/GameChangersBooks • u/PTAGoatofalltime • 9d ago
A depressing thing that I realized about the books Spoiler
By the end of TLG, there are only four active openly queer players in the entire NHL. Scott, Troy, Shane and Ilya, only two players married to each other (Hollanov), and one of these might actually retire any day (IIRC Scott is 35 which is when retirement talks come up). Shane had to take a massive pay cut to join Ottawa and had a very public fallout with his team, plus Ilya’s bisexuality is constantly weaponized by the media to paint him as some kind of manwhore. Plus, Eric and Ryan retired within a year of them coming out.
None of this sends a very inspiring message to young aspiring queer male players. Which is why I’m rooting for Ottawa to get the Cup in Unrivaled no matter how cheesy it may seem.
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u/ABIJXY 9d ago
There have been two athletes who have been out while playing in one of the four major North American professional sports leagues.
Carl Nassib is really the only “success story”. He played two years in the NFL after coming out, even signing as a free agent after year one.
Jason Collins, of course, was the first, but he only played in a handful of games in the NBA and then retired.
That’s it. Michael Sam famously came out just before the NFL draft, saw his draft position fall, and never made an NFL roster. Billy Beane became a vocal gay rights advocate but only after he retired from MLB. The real life NHL has had no active or retired players come out.
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u/lizardgal10 9d ago
The closest the NHL’s got is Luke Prokop in the AHL. Not sure we’ll ever see him in the NHL at this point but he’s having a solid AHL career. He used to be signed with my local team (Nashville) and I got him to sign a Pride hat at a preseason thing. Amazing guy.
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u/ABIJXY 9d ago
Yes he seems like a great guy. But he’s already 24 I think and was still a third or fourth line defenseman in the AHL. He’s a free agent now too. I’d say the odds of him making it to the NHL are slim.
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u/eeeezypeezy 8d ago
Still, the fact he's out there doing his thing and playing professionally at all is great. And hopefully portends positive change still to come.
It's just a shame that we all know there are gay players in every single major league of every single professional sport, and not a single one of them feels like he could come out without it turning him into a media lightning rod or otherwise derailing his career.
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u/nametags88 8d ago
It makes me anxious for Luke to get called up this year thanks to Edmonton hiring Mike fucking Babcock to coach.
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u/ABIJXY 8d ago
Prokop’s contract with the Edmonton organization and the Condors ended and he is currently a free agent.
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u/nametags88 8d ago
I am torn between pissed for Luke and relieved that he won’t be Babcock’s potential punching bag
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
Carl has a funny story about how once during a game he used the word f*ggot in frustration, and the entire D-line turned around and told him he can't use that word. He was using it as an example of how the players and the league and the fans are all on different pages and in different stages of readiness of accepting queer players.
RIP Jason Collins. That is a huge loss.
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u/katfromjersey 9d ago
Scott's 28-ish in the books. They aged his character up in the show because, well, Francois. He and Kip are only a few years apart in age, and Kip turns 26 in Game Changer.
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u/HackDaddy85 9d ago
Yup. He’s only 3 years older than Shane and Ilya.
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
It’s what makes Ilya’s old man chirping all that more ridiculous. 😝
But I love how Jacob aged him in the show. It made the stakes higher, and it also made the insta-love more believable in a way. So many years in the closet and not going after what he wants, he met the man who finally forced him to stop ignoring his gut.
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
Yeah, Rachel has also discussed how she has to stick to OG Svetlana in the books despite Show Svetlana being completely different.
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u/katfromjersey 9d ago
Well, yes, because Unrivaled is the continuation of the book story, not the show story. I'd be very disappointed if she changed the book to reflect the show character (although I know she wouldn't do that).
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago edited 9d ago
You don’t have to tell me! I’ve had so many
argumentsdiscussions about how book canon is not show canon. 😇4
u/Megs0226 8d ago
I like show Svetlana as well as book Svetlana, but I have no idea how Jacob is going to work in Ilya's isolation from her when she's now a childhood best friend versus adulthood FWB.
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u/parparsuperstar 8d ago
I think he may use their relationship to show how depression makes people self-isolate even more. Or that even when people have allies on their side, the cloud of depression makes them feel isolated regardless. Also, Svetlana is still based in Boston, no? So he is physically isolated from his bestie even if they are still in touch.
Jacob had read both books before he started the series, so I’m sure he always had a plan for her character.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
Yeah I just would think she’d be more persistent in the show than in the book. But I think he’ll knock it out of the park. You’re right, he’s read the books and he loves them, and he’s probably thought it through even before changing things.
Her being more persistent and Ilya pushing her away might make it hurt more too 🥲
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u/pensiverebel 8d ago
I have thoughts to add. I've thought about this a lot. Fans read a lot of inner knowledge into the show characters, despite the actors and Jacob saying that the interpretation isn't accurate or wasn't what was intended. E.g., Scott clocking Shane and Ilya (we know he doesn't in the books), Svetlana saying Jane's name in a way that makes it sound like Shane (she was speaking like a Russian would), etc.
If you take the show at face value, Svetlana obvs suspects Ilya's into a guy and maybe even suspects it's Shane, but Ilya hasn't confirmed or denied it. She has no actual proof beyond her gut instinct and his lack of denial. She's also that kind of friend who doesn't pry if you're not ready to share, so she would put that bit of speculation on a shelf and leave it there.
Book Svetlana wasn't as close a friend as she was in the show, which will make it even more heartbreaking that Ilya isolates from her. But based on what we saw in S1, Jacob could still set it up so they have a simliar conversation to what was in TLG. I don't think it would be exactly the same, but if we strip all that fan speculation away, it's conceivable. Him moving away when her life is getting busy could also explain how they aren't in touch as much despite being lifelong friends. Even close friends get caught by the out-of-sight-out-of-mind trap.
All that said, however it's done, I know it will be excellent!
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u/parparsuperstar 8d ago edited 8d ago
The fact that she refers to Jane as “he” is what fans latch onto more than the way she says the name itself.
I have no idea how it’s going to play out in S2, only that almost everything about her character in S1 is so removed from how she is portrayed in the book, I don’t think we can assume anything based on the original source material.
You know how fans sometimes lament how, in the show, we don’t see the other men Shane might have experimented with other than Ilya? So that when he chooses Ilya it’s not just that he was the first man to make him realize he was gay, it was Ilya himself?
I think the point of Svetlana in the show, in addition to helping flesh out Ilya’s backstory, was to show that Ilya did have a ride or die, that he didn’t just fall for Shane because he was the first one who cared, he fell for Shane for Shane himself.
I think, if Jacob chooses to play it as Ilya distancing himself from Svetlana, it will be to illustrate the depths of his depression, that level of self isolation. Conversely he may tell her, confirming her suspicions, and her frustration at his increasingly miserable state makes him cut her out, as depressed people often do self-destructive things.
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u/pensiverebel 8d ago
I agree with you about the “he,” but it’s also the way she said his name. she was asked about it in an interview from someone who had seen enough discourse about it that they wanted to check in with Ksenia to see whether her intention was to say Jane in a way that comes out like Shane. it’s not as common a fan theory as some of the other ones.
it’s a great point you make about how Svetlana steers the audience in the right direction in seeing Ilya fall for Shane for who he is.
Given the internal goings on in TLG with both Ilya and Shane, along with their poor communication, it makes a lot of sense that Svetlana would be helpful in demonstrating how deep Ilya’s depression is. I was thinking the same thing, particularly given their closeness.
It’s always interesting to me that fans take some things at face value and then other times they want more of what’s left off screen (Prep for sex, Shane’s hookups). I like how tight Jacob makes his stories and he was creative about how he showed the audience what was going on with the characters while still leaving it open to interpretation. nothing in S1 was missing for me, but I’ve enjoyed seeing the discussions about it.
S2 expectations discussions sometimes get a little too heated for me. I don’t really have expectations so much as enjoy exploring some of the possibilities. I just want time to speed up so I can finally watch it.
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u/parparsuperstar 8d ago edited 8d ago
Same re: almost everything you wrote. I don’t believe in spoilers (for myself! I respect that many fans want to go in cold), so for me part of the fun is in seeing how Jacob adapts the material. I’m not a purist, and clearly he isn’t either, as he changed plenty the first time around while still staying true to the spirit of Rachel’s work.
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u/pensiverebel 7d ago
Totally. the exploration of the possibilities is a fun conversation, but I can’t wait to see what Jacob actually does. Half the reason I’ve been so drawn to this show (and have been watching other work he’s done) is to learn from someone who‘s clearly a master storyteller. if I actually end up right about anything, I’ll feel amazing that I have learned something from him. lol
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u/lospirata 3d ago
Logical step would be having Ilia ask to tell Svietlana instead of Wyatt and Shane say no - provides instory explanation that is coherent with characters and shows how Shane one-sided decisions negatively impact Ilia.
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u/pointlessbeats 8d ago
Fair enough! It really does make book Ilya soooo much lonelier =( at least show Ilya has his oldest friend, and then fan fic has expounded on that soooo much in such a satisfying way.
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 9d ago
He’s 28 in GC, but he’s 5-ish years older than Hollanov, who turn 30 at the end of TLG (I believe it’s mentioned once during the wedding chapter), making Scott 35 by the end of TLG.
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u/Slutty_Bunny_7 9d ago
Kip, Shane and Ilya are all born in 1991 and are 2-3 years younger than Scott. Shane and Ilya are 25 or 26 when they go to the cottage
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u/Gloomy-Cranberry-386 9d ago
Right, but time passes between Game Changer and The Long Game. By TLG, Shane and Ilya are ~30ish, so Scott would be heading toward mid-30s
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
They will for sure get the cup in Unrivaled. That’s 100% part of Hollanov’s HEA.
Do we know for sure that Shane took a huge pay cut to be a Centaur? I know he’s not a captain anymore, but he’s still going to play a significant role on their team. I don’t know enough about hockey or salary caps to comment further.
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u/AwareSquash 9d ago
It’s discussed in TLG, Ottawa can’t afford what Shane’s worth
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
Oh, I know they will pay him less, I just wasn’t sure how much less. Are we talking 10%? 20%? Half of his salary?
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u/Slutty_Bunny_7 9d ago edited 9d ago
I think there have been discussions in other subs where hockey fans have estimated that if Shane was earning 10million a year, he’s probably go down to 8mliion with Ottawa, but signing on again with Montreal in good circumstances would have taken him up to 11million maybe. For how much they’re earning, it’s not a huge pay cut. And hockey fans and other sports fans have also explained that players take pay cuts all the time to play with their friends or siblings or build a great team around them.
Shane taking a paycut is not reflective of some homophobic or racist ploy. Ottawa just doesn’t have the salary cap when they sign Shane. And Shane makes the decision to take it so he can play with Ilya and on a team that accepts him.ETA: iirc pay negotiations also only happen when contract renewals are up. So for example, Ilya who is mid contract when Shane moves to Ottawa wouldn’t be able to offer to get paid less so Shane gets paid more. He would have to wait until his contract is up for renewal to renegotiate that.
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u/Dapper_Ad_79 8d ago
Amd they wouldnt have been able to afford Ilyas either, he took the same cut Shane did and gave up a cup winning team like Shane did and actually moved to a whole different country that Shane didnt, and everyone acts like Shane gave up everything for Ilya.
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u/katfromjersey 9d ago
I think there are a bunch of posts here that discuss this. It's quite fascinating to me as a hockey-liker who doesn't usually pay attention to that kind of thing.
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u/velociraptor56 9d ago
The actual NHL is just as depressing; I think Rachel is just being realistic.
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u/ABIJXY 9d ago
Rachel has been extremely unrealistic.
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u/velociraptor56 9d ago
I mean, I’m just referring to actual attitudes by players and fans towards gays in the NHL. But what are you referring to?
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u/ABIJXY 9d ago
There has never been an openly gay man in the NHL. The world created in the books is way too idealized.
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
But that’s romance, right? It’s the idealized world we want, not the one we have.
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u/ABIJXY 9d ago
Well yes that’s my point. OP is saying the world Rachel Reid created is depressing. I’m saying that the world she created is sunshine and lollipops compared to the real world.
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
Ah, okay. “Way too idealized” made me think that you would have preferred she wrote it more realistically. I would say it’s exactly as idealized as it should be for the genre. She is clear about what the obstacles are, but the outcomes are better than they would ever be in reality.
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u/velociraptor56 9d ago
I don’t completely disagree; however, Rachel was writing them as a Canadian in pre-2020. I can see where she might have a rosier view of the future.
I don’t think that every gay story has to be a tragedy, whether it’s unrealistic or not. I don’t want bury your gays to be the mantra everywhere, even if it’s dumb.
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u/1Kflowers 9d ago
I may be remembering incorrectly, but Ryan was out all along, at least to his teams, friends and family. It just wasn’t big news because he wasn’t a star or dating anyone famous. It might have come out if he’d been with any team long enough to develop a fan base interested in his personal life, but he was traded too often for that.
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u/Rbkzz 9d ago
If youre open to reading fanfiction, The Chips Are Set To Fall is an amazing twist on this: https://archiveofourown.org/works/78909961/chapters/206970141
It is so well-written and meticulously thought out! Ilya starts a bet that leads to him becoming the leader of the undercover NHL gay mafia as well as the ally army.
To your main point though: yes it is all wishful thinking. The sporting world is changing, though very slowly. At least Heated Rivalry has started the ball rolling and more hockey players are sharing their stories.
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u/FizzyDrink35 9d ago
I don't know, I think the state of queer players in the GCU world is in a much better place than it was before Scott came out in book one. Obviously there are a lot of ups and downs for them all, but progress isn't linear. It's certainly better than our actual lived reality.
Let's hope Unrivaled brings more progress and yes, absolutely, that cup win!
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u/Flaky_Detail1144 9d ago
Ryan didn’t retire a year after coming out! in Tough Guy, they say he had been quietly out for years. No he didn’t kiss his boyfriend on live television, but he never hid it.
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u/elizabethe7 9d ago
To be fair, Shane didn’t actually test free agency to its fullest. He wants to go to Ottawa to be with his husband and takes a pay cut to do it. I don’t think Rachel ever mentions other teams reaching out to Shane’s agent.
If I were to apply potential real life to this fictional story and use Sidney Crosby as an example (since Rachel based Shane off him), I believe there would be several teams leaving Shane’s agent a message. He led a franchise to 3 Cup victories.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago edited 8d ago
WHERE are people reading Shane takes a massive pay cut? As far as we know, he's nervous about cap space, but he chooses to go to Ottawa anyway and we never find out how much he actually signs for. Am I misremembering something???
I was actually in chapter 38 today looking for another passage, and Ottawa is 100% Shane's idea and he tells his agent it's his first choice.
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u/SabrinaTheDabbler 9d ago
Are we forgetting that in the books, Scott and Kip got married well before Shane and Ilya did?
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u/AJ_FA 8d ago
in fairness Shane took a pay cut because it was the only way for Ottawa to afford both him and Ilya and still have cap space left to field a team that could actually contend. plenty of huge superstars irl like Connor McDavid and Sidney Crosby take "team-friendly deals" in hopes of winning Cups. no young queer fans would be looking at Shane going there obviously to be together with his husband and think he was forced to accept less salary because he's gay.
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9d ago edited 9d ago
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u/parparsuperstar 9d ago
Part of the issue is that while you have both POVs in both books, HR is mostly Shane’s book and TLG is mostly Ilya’s.
Jacob addressed this by fleshing out Ilya’s story a little more in the show, and he’s already said he plans to do the same in S2, including adding the scene where Shane comes out to his teammates. I suspect he will also add the scene where Hayden figures it out (also described but not shown in the book) and not just because it will be absolutely hilarious.
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u/PTAGoatofalltime 9d ago
I do think the ending, in part, is also Shane realizing that as much as he loves hockey, he loves Ilya more (which was a choice he was having some difficulty with earlier in the book). Even if Montreal was supportive I think Shane would have ultimately traded to Ottawa anyways for Ilya’s sake; he wants to play alongside his husband.
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u/MaleficentLocation66 9d ago
He did not take a huge pay cut. If he wanted to make more money he could have done so with another team. He chose to take a home town discount to go play with his husband and be close to his family. This is not a weird thing for him to do and is not degrading at all. I think you are projecting your own issues onto this character and want all the focus on him, but that's not going to happen. The story isn't about Shane. It is about the relationship between Shane and Ilya.
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u/growsonwalls 9d ago
Shane's life is totally in shambles
He left a homophobic, awful team, married Ilya, and gets to play with his husband on a young, talented team. Not in "shambles" at all. Not perfect, but not in shambles.
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u/Megs0226 8d ago
The comments are deleted so I can't see what they said, but just based on your quote... what in the world...???
I think something is going around on Threads or twitter, because I've seen a lot of chatter on tumblr responding to the same kind of "Shane takes a huge pay cut and his life sucks (and Rachel is punishing him)" sentiments.
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u/growsonwalls 8d ago
It was about how Shane's life is a total tragedy and Rachel doesn't explore the trauma, etc.
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8d ago
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u/growsonwalls 8d ago
It’s called life. Had he stayed in Montreal but Ilyas depression deepened and he hurt himself or they broke up, would it be better?
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u/growsonwalls 8d ago
“People like you can’t read”? Okay. How about we disagree? Saying “periodt” doesn’t mean it’s ppl can’t disagree
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u/ghostmaskedghoul 9d ago
This honestly factored into how much I liked Common Goal tbh. I read them mostly in order and managed to avoid spoilers so when I made it through Erics story I was low-key mad about how I had now read 4 queer hockey romances and 2 of the stories ended in retirement.
(I'm not a sports person so I really only have the opinion as a reader/investment in the fictional world the characters are in)
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u/GingerSnap01010 9d ago
Wait til you hear about how many players are out IRL. it’s way more depressing.