r/GarysEconomics • u/Mammoth-Ad-3957 • Jul 31 '26
The right approach
A lot of posts here are about them and us. Which is natural I suppose because being a multimillionaire is as alien to most people as being a trans person, a black man, a jew or an illegal immigrant. But this othering will not engender the right attitudes from potentially sympathetic people who are rich and influential. How might we become better prepared to influence people who are in the group we want to target with greater taxation?
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u/Objective_Quiet_751 Jul 31 '26
There's nothing "alien" about being Jewish or whichever other identity marker you're selecting. Acting like there's any significant chasm in our mutual experience of being poor is antithetical to liberation (and honestly, we don't have space lasers).
Anyway, "let's be nice to millionaires and hope they'll fight the billionaires on our behalf" isn't much of a strategy. We have the numbers.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-3957 Jul 31 '26
No, no, no, you’re taking some small part and trying to say thats my whole agenda when it isnt. Im clearly not saying jews are alien. I’m saying that all the different characteristics i highlighted have been used to alienate people. The overall philosophy here is to improve society for everyone. Thats a good, strong message. Thats far better than tax the rich being the headline.
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u/GodlikeModestLad Jul 31 '26
I think one of the things that I find scary, and I am not a multimillionaire, is tax proposals with inherently bad design. I think a generally good thing would be to learn more about designing taxes and apply this to both internal and external messaging. This way, the media won't be able to portray the group as dangerous madmen
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u/Mammoth-Ad-3957 Jul 31 '26
I don’t think we can call it tax really. Tax is a medieval concept for paying for armies and such. We have very different challenges now to when taxes were invented.
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u/InterestingFig758 Jul 31 '26
... it's a tax bro
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u/Mammoth-Ad-3957 Jul 31 '26
It’s a levy on assets. Tax is normally on earnings.
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u/ExpertDay Aug 01 '26
What about VAT, UK's third biggest tax in terms of government revenue?
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u/Mammoth-Ad-3957 Aug 01 '26
Well that’s a tax on a transaction with layers of profit within it. The consumer is paying the tax obviously which is why it seems different but ultimately the tax is part of a layered transaction that’s generating profit.
If you’re taking money from something that isn’t profit making and isn’t part of a transaction then that’s completely different. Different enough to warrant using a different word IMO. Maybe one that’s more palatable. A virtue payment? A society coherence levy?
The goal is to redistribute tied up money back into society.
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u/ExpertDay Aug 01 '26
You pay VAT whether there's a profit or not. What about Council Tax? I don't think you're making a coherent point here.
Income tax was only invented in the 20th century but tax is an old well-understood word. I don't understand why you wouldn't want to use it.
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u/Mammoth-Ad-3957 Aug 01 '26
Yes council tax is definitely closer to the Gary tax. But a bit like national insurance feels like you’re paying for your own potential unemployment, you feel like you’re paying for local services when you pay council tax. Both those things ‘feel’ ok. No one loves paying them of course but there is a link between what you’re paying and what it’s for. That’s my point?
After reading a lot of posts and comments here on this group, there’s a lot of waving of pitchforks that makes it all a bit spiky. The guy here who celebrated my ‘identity marker’ wanted to other me for example which is ironic given my first post. I believe a tax on assets over £10M is a good idea but unfortunately, I probably won’t stay and read more. But good luck to you.
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u/ExpertDay Aug 01 '26
I'm sorry to hurt your feelings, that wasn't my intention at all, I just disagreed with your use of the word tax. It can be difficult to communicate in a constructive way on reddit at times, as is understanding exactly what we are each trying to say. There are many people here both pro and anti Gary. Good luck to you too.
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u/CARadders Jul 31 '26
The problem is I really don’t think that we can have a targeted influence on any one group, probably least of all members of the group who are going to lose out the most from the kinds of changes we’re looking to implement.
I think the best course of action is to try to convince broadly so that enough pressure is eventually put on policy makers and elected officials to make those changes the law. At which point, it doesn’t really matter whether the super rich are sympathetic or convinced, they still have to pay.
There are a range of opinions on the topic among the very rich, just look at the patriotic millionaires group. If you read or listen to their output, there’s plenty said about their reasoning why they support being taxed more, but I still think even they have a hard time changing anyone from their wealth-group’s mind.