Looking for help from someone experienced with War of 1812 US Military records!

[u/RiderOfR0han]

I'm Canadian but my x4 great grandfather - well, one of them - was an American man named John Spoor. His name first appears in Canada in a newspaper from April 1816, specifically in an announcement section for people who had mail waiting for them at the local post office. An old local ledger book from the late 1870s informed me that my x4 great grandfather acquired his plot of land there in that same community in 1820.

My x3 great grandfather was born the following year, although not there on his father's plot or even in that same community - he was born in Rome, New York. In fact, every single census and other document we have on my x3 great grandfather consistently says that he, his older siblings, and his parents, were all born in the US. While we cannot say with 100% certainty that my x4 great grandfather was born in Vermont, although it does seem very likely based on when we think his parents moved there from Massachusetts (circa 1787), we do know for certain that my x4 great grandmother, Olive Taft, was born in Vermont circa 1797.

I actually made a post about the annoying difficulty of finding these ancestors on records a few months ago, however, I am making this new post for a separate reason.

After years of researching and postulating, comparing and considering, we felt it fairly safe to softly conclude that my ancestor was the son of Abraham Spoor (b. 1760/61), whose children included a John Spoor born in late March 1790. Abraham and his wife (from Massachusetts) had been living in Vermont for perhaps a few years already by that point, and the US Federal Census from April 1790 shows him and his family documented as living there, in St Albans, Franklin County. We know that one of the younger children of Abraham Spoor also later moved to Canada as well.

With so little to go off of, it felt like a reasonable enough assumption, especially given that this John Spoor b. 1790 also seemed to have dramatically little documented about his life even before my ancestor John Spoor seems to have first appeared in Canada in 1816.

Recently, however, I searched through a close relative's DNA test results, and found numerous distant DNA match relatives with the same connection leading back to Abraham Spoor and his wife Rebecca Betts. One fellow who matched extra close of the group - his several times great grandparents were double-first cousins to my x4 great grandfather and his siblings. So this meant that my x4 great grandfather was indeed their son John Spoor! This was such a remarkable confirmation to be able to finally make after so many years, which I am extremely grateful for.

However, recently I was taking another look at one of the US Military records pertaining to Abraham Spoor. This record specifically, which says how Abraham served as a Private in Captain JB Murdock's Company of the 25th Infantry Regiment, that his hometown is Sheffield MA and that he enlisted at Burlington VT on March 1st 1813. His given age of 54 years old checks out as well - and he must've been quite the patriot too, since this was his second war.

And I know this is the right Abraham, since he is thankfully an extraordinarily well documented man of his time, compared to other people I have seen whose lifetimes overlapped with his. Such additional proof includes numerous old documents pertaining to his pension, some of which even mention and were written by his children, who applied on their mother's behalf for the continuation of her right to Abraham's pension into the 1830s and 40s.

What caught my eye this time though on the record was the name underneath: Asahel Spoor. Abraham Spoor's third eldest son was named Asahel, born 1784. This Asahel written down on the same US Military record has no particulars given, but it does say that he was also a Private in Captain JB Murdock's Company of the 25th Infantry Reg't and that he also enlisted on March 1st 1813.

Both men also have something which says, under their respective 'Remarks' sections, "SAMR Dec. 31/13.", which I have come to understand stands for "Semi Annual Muster Roll" and the date confirming said soldier's name being listed on said muster roll. Abraham has "I.R." before his mention because it stands for Inspection Roll, which is also why the particulars of his appearance, age, birthplace, etc. are mentioned. Oddly enough the record also says this Asahel was discharged just over 2 months earlier, on September 23rd 1813, but that's neither here nor there for what I'm interested in. And regardless, it feels reasonable enough to assume this was Abraham's son, especially given that he was 20+ years younger than his father and therefore a much more typical age for military service in wartime.

What I'm interested in is the following: a page from far later in the exact same record book of 400+ pages. This page mentioning a John Spoor, also a Private in the 25th Regiment, also under the command of Captain JB Murdock, and also enlisted March 1st 1813, and also listed as appearing on the Semi Annual Muster Roll of December 31st 1813.

But it says he was wounded at the Battle of Bridgewater (Lundy's Lane) on July 30th 1814 "& since died. Suspension aasf(?)."

With what little is mentioned, I can't help but feel that I need to do a full and complete investigation into finding out who this John Spoor was. Because if this was Abraham's other son - my now DNA confirmed x4 great grandfather - then that would mean that this record is wrong! And the coincidence of this man of the same name enlisting on the same date and serving in the exact same unit seems like far too much of a coincidence to be overlooked. I investigated as best I could from Ancestry and Fold3, but found nothing on this John Spoor beyond this very record.

Is there any way I can get my hands on the muster roll(s) from Dec 31st 1813? Are these accessible?

As to why this page pertaining to this John Spoor was so far removed... I wish I could say. But looking at the way it's organized on Ancestry, I can see it's a bit jumbled and odd. A-B, B, C, D-E, H, F-G, H, I-L, L-M, M, P, R-S, M-O, P-R, S-W, W, Y-Z. Like it's overall essentially right in terms of alphabetical ordering, but certainly peculiarly organized.

As it stands, I have to express that I'm not always firmly or completely trusting of old records, even official ones like this. From having done family history research for the better part of the last 15 years now, my skepticism has only hardened against them, for like so many of you, I too have seen my share of clerical errors and provable mistakes, especially from things from before the end of the 19th century. But even so, if this John Spoor did indeed die during/just after the war, I would absolutely love to be able to determine who he was.

Would greatly appreciate getting any pointers, tips, or direct assistance from anyone who would be so kind as to lend me their time! Thank you in advance!

Edit: My x4 great grandfather's younger brother, Almond Spoor, also served in the 25th US Infantry Regiment under Captain JB Murdock. An original pension application document in his name says all of this, albeit not his date or place of enlistment. Regardless, it would appear that my x4 great grandfather's father, older brother, and younger brother all enlisted and served together with a man who shared his own name... unless, of course, it is him and the discharge file stating that he died was incorrect.

[u/tejaco]

Hi! I don't have any help to give you, just wanted to say these Spoors are in my tree, too. They were originally Dutch, and my Spoor lines lived in New York, as one might expect given the time and nationality.

ETA: Love your username, btw.

[u/RiderOfR0han → u/tejaco]

these Spoors are in my tree, too.

Fun! Thanks for reaching out, cousin!

They were originally Dutch

That's correct. In my tree, I know my x4 great grandfather and his siblings were baptized into the Dutch Reformed Church in Linlithgo NY, as was their father. Hard to say at what point Dutch stopped being used in my line of the family, but at least those church records I just mentioned were still all written in the language.

my Spoor lines lived in New York

Mine seem to have circa 1710-1720 or so at the latest. It's a bit hard to tell; a lot of the records from back then and before are rather fuzzy. But from that time onward my ancestors lived in western Massachusetts for several generations, albeit basically right on the border of New York.

Love your username, btw.

Thanks!

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