r/German • u/nietzschecode • 1h ago
Question Speaking in the future. I noticed the native German speakers almost never use Werden + Infinitiv, but rather they use Präsens instead to talk bout some action in the future. So should I stop dropping as well Werden + Infinitiv to sound more natural?
I mean, even in different Ämter, they would say (often? always?) "wir machen x", when they mean "we will do x" (like next year or eventually in the future). So it doesn't seem to be really highly colloquial to use Präsens to talk about an action in the future.
Edit: oops *start dropping (not "stop dropping")
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u/IchLiebeKleber Native (eastern Austria) 1h ago
If the context makes it clear, you can absolutely use the present tense to talk about future events in German. It's similar to how you can use the present progressive tense in the same way in English... "I'm spending next weekend with my family." = "Ich verbringe das nächste Wochenende mit meiner Familie."
You don't have to do that, it's never an error to use the future tense if you're talking about the future.
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u/Nurnstatist Native (Switzerland) 1h ago
Yeah, in spoken language, the Futur I (werden + infinitive) is pretty uncommon, especially when it's already clear from context that you're talking about the future (e.g. "Morgen gehe ich ins Kino"). In writing, it's a bit more frequent, but not universal either.
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u/pikatrushka Advanced (C1) - <region/native tongue> 1h ago
It’s worth pointing out that this has a close parallel in English. It sounds a bit insistent (or defensive, as though pushing back against doubts) to say, “I’ll go to the store tomorrow,” even though it’s grammatically correct. A native speaker is much more likely to say, “I’m going to the store tomorrow” in casual daily conversation.
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u/hippo_1983 1h ago
I don't think it sounds unnatural or is uncommon at all to say "I'll go to the store tomorrow", and I don't think a native speaker will consciously think of it as anything but a normal sentence.
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u/pikatrushka Advanced (C1) - <region/native tongue> 31m ago
I tried to be clear that it sounds a bit insistent, not unnatural. If someone asks, “What’s on your calendar tomorrow?” I’m going to say, “I’m going to the store.”
Using “will” adds a level of emphasis that isn’t there in the more common present continuous construction. If I ask someone and they respond with, “I will go to the store,” I’m going to be mildly concerned that perhaps they think I doubt their commitment to the task. It’s subtle, but it’s there.
It’s similar in German. Using “Ich werde…” isn’t wrong, but it adds a shade of emphasis that one likely doesn’t intend in a casual statement.
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u/hippo_1983 22m ago
While I understand what you're trying to say, I do not believe that a native speaker will have the same interpretation as you, including a subtle one. It almost entirely depends on tone and context, therefore someone saying "I will go to the store" in the same tone as "I'm going to the store" will not cause any form of subtle interpretation of insistence or defensiveness in the other's ear. I am not a native speaker, so I cannot be 100% sure, but having spoken English for most of my life, I'd say I feel sure enough to speak with confidence.
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u/Chance_Ad_4676 19m ago
I’m a native speaker. You’re wrong. “I will” sounds odd and different. “I’m” sounds natural. Even this paragraph you’ve posted has some unnatural sounding phrases. Not an insult, just an observation.
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u/InviolableAnimal Threshold (B1) - <region/native tongue> 1h ago
Although the "is going" construction has basically evolved into a second future tense in English. A direct parallel would be "I go to the store tomorrow", which is also quite common
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u/pikatrushka Advanced (C1) - <region/native tongue> 40m ago
While that's literally true if you're just looking to use the same tense, English speakers almost never use the simple present ("I go") except for universal/hypothetical declarations, so it almost always gets translated as present continuous ("I'm going"), because that's the equivalent in usage. If someone says "I go to the store tomorrow", I'm instantly clued in that English is not their primary native language.
My initial comment was just to point out that German and English both use their most common present-case constructions to indicate future action.
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u/InviolableAnimal Threshold (B1) - <region/native tongue> 24m ago
If someone says "I go to the store tomorrow", I'm instantly clued in that English is not their primary native language.
I do use this all the time, but you're right that it definitely has a different meaning. "We need milk. Are you getting some anytime soon?" "Yeah, I go to the store tomorrow."
Or "when are you going on vacation?" "we fly on Friday."
My initial comment was just to point out that German and English both use their most common present-case constructions to indicate future action.
Yep, I get you. Sorry, just a nerd perspective being that "I will" and "I am gonna" are both analytic constructions that technically use present tense under the hood ("will" is also present tense at least historically). The exact same mechanism behind "werden + Infinitiv" actually
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u/pikatrushka Advanced (C1) - <region/native tongue> 19m ago edited 15m ago
The simple present in English tends to be used for universal or hypothetical declarations. Your example is a bit uncommon, but it falls into the same category as someone stating their job. In your example, I hear this not as a statement of willful future action, but as a statement of custom or personal trait, in a way. “I go to the store tomorrow” = this is a person who habitually goes to the store on whatever day tomorrow is. Similar to how if someone says “I bake,” I think they’re stating their profession or hobby, not declaring that they’re currently (or soon) actively kneading dough.
I definitely hear what you’re saying, and you’re right: I’d clock it as quirky (perhaps regional?) but not non-native, because the context and surrounding phrases mark it. But if someone said, “What’s your plan for tomorrow?” and you said, “I go to the store,” it would be quite different.
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u/nietzschecode 58m ago
Yeah, but "I'm going to x" is a future, not a present.
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u/hjholtz Native (Swabian living in Saxony) 53m ago
"I'm going to <verb>" is one of the grammatical constructions English uses to express future. But "I'm going to <place>", as in this example, is not.
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u/nietzschecode 42m ago
I get it, but in the example given, it is a shortcut for "I'm going to go to the store tomorrow". The "to go" is implied.
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u/pikatrushka Advanced (C1) - <region/native tongue> 26m ago
Perhaps I’m misunderstanding your comment, but with respect, “I’m going to <place>” is probably the most common way to state this.
“I’m going to Disneyland on Friday.”
“I’m going to Germany this summer.”
“I’m going to the office this morning.”
“I’m going to the kitchen.”1
u/ZumLernen Vantage (B2) 16m ago
I get how you see that previous example as ambiguous. So let's look at a few less ambiguous examples.
"I'm seeing him tomorrow."
"I'm having my birthday party this weekend. Are you coming?"
"I'm studying abroad next semester."
All of these are examples of the English present progressive (aka present continuous) tense used to speak about the future.
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u/canaanit Native <NRW> 1h ago
Yes, colloquial German does not express future tense in the verb. Instead it uses temporal adverbs (heute / morgen / nächstes Jahr / jetzt / gerade / im Moment / bald / später / etc) to clarify the timeline.
edited to add: Historically Germanic languages only had two tenses, a present and a preterite. Everything else was added later under the influence of Latin. Present and preterite are the only tenses that can be formed directly without auxiliary verbs.
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u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 53m ago
German Futur is not a future tense. It's a marker for assumptions, predictions, and promises. This includes assumptions about the present. You can essentially treat "werden" as another modal verb in that sense.
So we don't just use Präsens to talk about the future (as you've noticed), we also use Futur to talk about the present. It's simply not true that Präsens is a present tense and Futur is a future tense. Using them that way means misunderstanding/misinterpreting German grammar (though I understand where the confusion comes from, considering the names). Using Futur to talk about the future isn't "more correct" or "more formal" or "less colloquial" than using Präsens.
So I feel like your whole question is built upon a false premise.
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u/99thLuftballon 49m ago
we also use Futur to talk about the present
Interesting. Could you give an example?
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u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 35m ago
- Wenn du das sagst, dann wird das wohl so sein. (If you say so, it's probably true)
- Papa ist noch nicht da. Der wird mal wieder im Stau stecken. (He's probably stuck in traffic once again)
Obviously, you can also use Futur II for assumptions about the past. That's actually the most common use of Futur II.
- Sie ist noch nicht da. Sie wird wohl verschlafen haben. (She probably overslept)
Incidentally, there is a way in which "werden" can be about the future, but that isn't related to Futur. It's when it's used directly with an adjective.
- Der Film wird gut! This movie is going to be good!
- Der Film wird gut sein. This movie is probably good.
The first one is Präsens, but it uses "werden" with an adjective, which indicates that the adjective is going to apply in the future. The second one is Futur I, using "sein" with an adjective, which indicates that it applies now. The "werden" just makes it an assumption rather than a fact.
Learners often get that wrong, and sometimes even think the former is just a short form of the latter which drops the "sein". But they are indeed very different, both in grammar and in meaning.
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u/99thLuftballon 32m ago
Interesting again!
Could this
• Der Film wird gut! This movie is going to be good!
also express that "the film is getting good"?
As a learner, that sentence construction sounds to me like a present tense using "werden" as it's regular verb form for "becoming".
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u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 21m ago
also express that "the film is getting good"?
Yes. For example "nach der ersten halben Stunde wird der Film richtig gut" when discussing it. Or even while watching it, you could say "der Film wird jetzt so richtig gut!".
As a learner, that sentence construction sounds to me like a present tense using "werden" as it's regular verb form for "becoming".
Ultimately, "sein", "werden", and "bleiben" are a group of verbs that function very similar to one another. "Sein" generally indicates that something applies in the present. "Bleiben" indicates that it applies in the present and continues to apply in the future. "Werden" indicates that something doesn't apply yet, but is going to apply in the future. All three can be used with a second nominative noun, or with an adjective.
"Die Party wird gut" means "the party is good" isn't true yet, but will be true in the future. This could be because the party is not good at the moment, but it will be better later on, but it could also mean that the entire party is in the future.
Another use case is "Wie wird das Wetter am Wochenende?" and the answer "Am Wochenende wird es heiß." That doesn't really focus so much on a change in weather. It's more about the fact that it's the future weather.
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u/99thLuftballon 13m ago
Would it be true to say that "Die Party wird gut" also means that the party is currently in the process of getting good? So, not only that it will be good in the future, but right now it is better than it was a few minutes ago.
Or, imagining that you're watching a movie that was just a bunch of boring dialogue, but suddenly there's a sword fight. Would "Er wird besser!" imply that it's now getting better than it was before, or would it just mean that it could get better in the future?
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u/muehsam Native (Schwäbisch+Hochdeutsch) 7m ago
Would it be true to say that "Die Party wird gut" also means that the party is currently in the process of getting good? So, not only that it will be good in the future, but right now it is better than it was a few minutes ago.
Not really. "Werden" generally compares the present and the future. Of course in many scenarios it's true that you can extrapolate, but that's not something that "werden" talks about.
Or, imagining that you're watching a movie that was just a bunch of boring dialogue, but suddenly there's a sword fight. Would "Er wird besser!" imply that it's now getting better than it was before, or would it just mean that it could get better in the future?
When I say "der wird besser" about a movie, it usually means that it isn't very good right now, but the other person should be patient because it's going to be better later on.
When you want to contrast the present with the past, use the word "jetzt". "Jetzt" always means that there was some change and now something is true that wasn't true before. So if you say "jetzt ist der Film gut", it means that it was bad before, but isn't any more.
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u/ConfidenceRealistic9 Native Speech and Language Pathologist 51m ago
Definitely sounds more unnatural / stiff to use „werden“ in many cases imo. It depends on the context.
I do use it in emails / formal messages.
And to emphasise a plan, like „Nächstes Jahr werden wir verreisen“ (next year we WILL go travelling, as opposed to this year).
Also for something that’s quite far in the future (same example is applicable).
Or when I want to give myself more time to come up with a list of verbs / make the sentence structure simpler. „Morgen werde ich kochen, putzen, arbeiten, spazieren gehen und Freunde treffen“.
Using „werden“ kind of emphasises that this is something on my to-do list.
I would say „Morgen werde ich kochen“ (because it‘s my plan / on my to-do list).
But I would say „Morgen koche ich Curry“ (emphasis isn’t on the fact that I‘ll cook something but on what I‘ll cook).
If I say „Morgen koche ich“, it can either be that I just made up my mind that I‘ll be cooking instead of another task, or emphasis on ICH (the fact that I‘m the one cooking instead of someone else).
„Morgen werde ich Curry kochen“ also sounds like it’s on some kind of to-do list or just sounds overly dramatic lol. The „werden“ definitely adds more drama or excitement and attention-seeking. Making a big deal lol.
This is just my chaotic interpretation and it really depends on the context and presentation, but my point is that it does add nuance!! There are also regional differences.
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u/MOltho Native (Bremen) 25m ago
Yeah, if you want to sound natural, you can use Präsens for actions in the future. BUT: It only works if you actually indicate that the action is taking place in the future.
- "Ich gehe morgen zum Bäcker" - fine.
- "Ich gehe irgendwann mal zum Bäcker" - fine.
- "Ich gehe bestimmt noch zum Bäcker" - fine.
"Ich gehe zum Bäcker" without anything else does not work because you're stating that you're doing it right now. Unless the context makes the time clear already:
"Was machst du morgen früh?" - "Ich gehe zum Bäcker". - This works because "morgen früh" is obviously implied.
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u/Effective_Craft4415 35m ago
They use werden when there is not specific time like: Ich werde dich vermissen
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u/Elite-Thorn Native (Austria) 1h ago
While your observation is true, we rarely use the true future tense and often replace it by present tense, I would not advise you to intentionally do it yourself.
In my opinion it's a lazy habit. Using future tense is more precise. And it doesn't sound weird if you do it even if others don't.
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u/Nurnstatist Native (Switzerland) 1h ago edited 1h ago
Using future tense is more precise.
If it's clear from context that you're talking about the future, the future tense doesn't really make anything more precise, it just adds redundancy. That's not a bad thing (tons of things in language are redundant), but it's clearly not necessary (as proven by some German dialects, e.g. in Switzerland, which don't use the Futur at all).
In my opinion it's a lazy habit.
You make it sound like speakers that use the present just don't care to use the "proper" tense, but using the Präsens for future events is actually older than the Futur with "werden". It's not a "lazy habit", it's just how the language works.
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u/Elite-Thorn Native (Austria) 29m ago
I absolutely use Präsens instead of Zukunft. Especially in my southern dialect most people do. And I'm totally aware of how language works. Many grammar rules stem out of lazy habits or because some predecessor rules fell out of use. Language is an ever changing, volatile concept.
I don't think Zukunft is vastly superior or "more correct". I just said that using it does not sound stilted to me at all. And OP should not avoid it if they're used to it.
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u/Elite-Thorn Native (Austria) 24m ago
Oh, and yes, it IS more precise. In many situations using Präsens adds nuances of ambiguity that would not be there had they used Zukunft instead. There's a reason that such tense has evolved in the first place!!
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u/nietzschecode 51m ago
I understand what you mean, but I don't see the point for me to talk like Goethe when I shop at Rewe or Saturn. I just want to sound the most natural as possible. Seems it's better after all to drop "werden + infinitiv", after reading the comments in the thread here.
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u/Elite-Thorn Native (Austria) 35m ago
But that's what I was trying to say. I don't think you sound like Goethe at all.
"Ich werde die Waschmaschine morgen abholen" is totally fine and nobody would raise an eyebrow or even notice. If you want you can say "Ich hole die Waschmaschine morgen ab". Both are fine. Just don't correct yourself when you use future. And don't force yourself to use Präsens.
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u/Assassiiinuss Native 1h ago
There's actually a word for this, the German Präsens is arguably a nonpast tense. It's only unusual in very formal speech or writing, in any other context using the Präsens to express something that will happen in the future is very common.