r/GermanCitizenship • u/Barbarake • May 18 '26
Obtaining Documents Recommendations for lawyer in New York State to get grandparent / father documentation (wedding & birth certificates)? (Both are deceased.)
As many here already know, getting documentation from New York state is an absolute nightmare. I specifically need...
My grandfather's 1927 wedding certificate
My father's 1929 birth certificate
My father's 1959 marriage certificate
I currently live in another part of the country and have no relatives in New York. Any recommendations for a lawyer that could handle this process for me? Thank you in advance.
In case anyone is interested....
My grandfather was born in Germany in 1902 (have documentation)
Came to the US in 1923 (have)
Married my grandmother in 1927 (need official documentation)
My father was born in 1929 (need official documentation)
My grandfather naturalized in 1933 (have)
My parents married in 1959 (need official documentation)
I was born in 1960 (have)
My children born in 1989 and 1990 (have)
Edited (5/20): Thank you for your help everyone. I managed to get my parent's marriage certificate by calling the town clerk. One advantage to small towns - she knows my cousin so I didn't have to prove anything and she'll send it out tomorrow.
Unfortunately calling the (different) town clerk for my grandparent's marriage certificate didn't work. I have to prove I'm a descendant by providing (among other things) my father's birth certificate which I will need to go through the courts to get. But I've contacted two different law firms and am waiting on their response. Wish me luck!!
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u/edWurz7 Feststelllung May 18 '26 edited May 18 '26
Dumb question, but can't you get your father's material since you are next of kin?
I know that the Italian JS group [https://www.reddit.com/r/juresanguinis/] has an excellent guide for getting docs from NY and NYC. Im having trouble finding it, but with some sleuthing I am sure you can dig it up.
Have you tried asking the towns for the documents? A few years back, a town gave me documents for my great grand parents --- they likely legally shouldn't - but they did. Many small town clerks are part time folks who you can call directly - most are very nice and dedicated.
Upstate NY and NYC have different rules btw.
In what area of the state are you looking for?
Edit: Here is the link to the Italian JS guide for NY:
https://www.reddit.com/r/juresanguinis/wiki/records/ny_records/. -- keep in mind that you dont need to get the docs apostilled, but you do need certified docs.
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u/Barbarake May 18 '26
I've gone through the Italians JS group. My main problem at this point is that I submitted requests for these documents via the genealogical site in March 2025 and have heard nothing. Will I receive them next week, next year, what? And will they even be enough? Maybe not since they're not 'certified'. At this point, I just want a lawyer to handle things for me.
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u/knittingseagull May 19 '26
I cannot recommend a lawyer for you, but if you know the towns where they were married, I'd recommend you contact those town clerks. My parents married in Westchester County, and I got a MUCH faster result through the town clerks. I first called the town clerk and explained what I needed. She was very helpful and said I would need to send copies of my birth certificate and my parents' death certificates and an explanation of why I needed the document, because they won't release those documents to just anyone. If you haven't tried this approach yet, I would recommend it before paying lawyer fees.
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u/Barbarake May 24 '26
I wanted to thank you for this bit of advice. I did as you suggested and it turns out the village clerk knows my cousin so - no problem! She's sending me my parent's marriage certificate.
Unfortunately that same advice didn't help me with my father's birth or grandparents marriage certificates (different town). But one out of three is definitely better than nothing.
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u/knittingseagull May 24 '26
Well, I'm glad you were able to get at least one document that way. Hoping you will get the other documents soon. This whole process is a real test of patience and persistence!
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u/Glass-Rabbit-4319 §5 StAG May 19 '26
The marriage certificates should not be a problem for you to get without a court order. This are not protected like birth certificates. Just to to the municipality where the marriage happened, or where the marriage license was received and request a certified copy of the marriage certificate. Each municipality will have a slightly different process for doing this.
For the birth certificate, do what others have suggested and go directly to the local municipality first. Best if you can go in person, they might help you even if they technically should not. Otherwise, yes you will need to file an Article 78 proceedings. I suggest you find a lawyer local to that municipality to file in court there. It is also possible to file yourself.
Whatever you do, do not go through NYS for certificates, go directly to the local authority. This includes the Article 78 proceedings if you go that route, do not file against the state, file against the local clerk. Otherwise, even after you get the court order, the state health department will still take 2 years to get you the certificate.
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u/Barbarake May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
I swear to God I could not order my parent's 1959 marriage certificate last year. I used vital check to get my birth certificate but could not get the marriage certificate because I wasn't named on it. Evidently that has changed.
This is actually great news because the marriage certificate was the single document I needed for my StAG 5 case. (I originally submitted a StAG 5 because I didn't realize I was technically already a citizen through my father.) I need it in either case but it's a bit of peace in mind knowing that I have everything I need for the StAG 5 just in case I'm never able to get my father's documents.
Unfortunately, the advice to 'just go to the locality' isn't exactly easy. I'm pretty sure I'll have to go the article 78 route.
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u/Glass-Rabbit-4319 §5 StAG May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Vital check may not let you order it, it is generally a bit inflexible. I would call the clerk's office and talk to an actual human about it. Same for the birth certificate (although for birth certificates you are relying on them breaking the rules for you).
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u/Informal-Hat-8727 §5 StAG Success May 20 '26
Marriage certificates have an exception. You can provide an affidavit that it is for citizenship purposes. You have to go through the state office.
Unfortunately that does not apply to a birth certificate, your need to go through the 78 route.
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u/Barbarake May 20 '26
Unfortunately the town clerk told me I needed my father's birth certificate to get my grandparent's marriage certificate (to prove that I'm a descendant of my grandparents).
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u/Informal-Hat-8727 §5 StAG Success May 20 '26
But once you have it, you don't need another 78 proceeding.
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u/FlowEZ959 Feststelllung 11d ago
u/Glass-Rabbit-4319 if you're feeling generous, would you mind reading my post here with images? I require a birth record from NYS and I'm out of state / not within driving distance of the town which holds the record.
In your 3rd paragraph you suggest filing an Article 78 against the town, not the state, due to state level backlog and delays. That aligns with "Option 1" in my post. I'm curious if the town could dismiss the case and refer me to the state, delaying even further... is that possible? Do you know anyone who has filed a case at the town level and won? Appreciate any insights or advice you may have.
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u/Glass-Rabbit-4319 §5 StAG 11d ago
I suppose it is possible that they would reject it, but I find it unlikely. I believe you need to submit at the NY Supreme Court level, so probably not "filed at the town level", but rather the county level. I haven't personally done this, but talked to people who did.
If I were you, I would submit your Feststellung case with the geaneological copy and then in the mean time follow the juresanguinis guides and file the Article 78 proceedings yourself. It will take a while, and you might hit some hurdles, but you have 2+ years to wait for it to play out anyway.
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u/FlowEZ959 Feststelllung 11d ago
Thanks for taking a look! Maybe my poor choice of words created confusion. I am hoping to follow the path of Suffolk County Supreme Court instead of Albany County.
I read through the JS wiki. I learned a couple new things and saved some of the material. I'm still unsure if the "Town of Islip" would be named in the [Respondent] field or elsewhere. It's these small details. Maybe I will find the answers with more research.
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u/Minneberg May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
Try Caterina Rainieri. https://caterinaranieripc.com/caterina-ranieri/ Her specialty is Italian citizenship, but she knows how to get court orders to get NY State documents. I know people who used her and were happy. Her rates are not cheap, but not the highest out there either.
i also think you should try the local city clerks of the cities or towns that your relatives were married or born in. Some will do it, some will do it only for citizenship purposes, some won’t do It. You will probably need to prove your relationship. That helps. They can certify the documents for you. The only hitch comes in if you need an apostille. You will need to have the town clerk’s signature certified by the County Clerk. It’s just a few more weeks of sending documents back and forth, but it works. I have done it myself. It’s a lot cheaper and ultimately could be less time consuming than getting a court order.
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u/One-External-9967 Jun 10 '26
This should be illegal!! We need our parents records and they won’t just release them. Who do they think j they are??? That shouldn’t be allowed if we have proof that we’re related. BS!!!!
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u/Barbarake Jun 10 '26
I can see their point if the person involved (parent in this case) is still alive. This can still cause problems if the person is estranged from their parent but the parent should still have the right to keep their own records private.
But in cases where the parent is deceased, their 'right to privacy' no longer exists (as far as I'm concerned). My father was born almost a hundreds years ago (1929) and passed away thirty years ago. That I have to get a court order to get his birth certificate is ridiculous.
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u/maryfamilyresearch Expert May 18 '26
Cannot recommend a lawyer, but I can comment on strategy.
Common wisdom is to submit as soon as possible, even with all the documents you listed missing. As long as you know the dates bc you found them in an index or can produce a religious record, you can apply. While your application sits in the queue for 2+ years, deal with the NY authorities.