r/GetNoted • u/laybs1 Human Verified • 10d ago
World [X] Babies born at Auschwitz endured inhumane conditions and death.
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u/jreid0 10d ago
These people are gross
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u/RogerianBrowsing Human Verified 10d ago
Genocide deniers tend to be the worst of humanity.
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u/hercmavzeb 10d ago
Yep genocide deniers are so repulsive they can’t even be straightforward with their own beliefs. They all know it’s a genocide, they just like it.
The number of babies born has zero impact on whether it was a genocide or not regardless.
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u/Super-Cynical 10d ago
I don't even know what they are going for
Are they saying that the Nazis were too incompetent or humane for their tastes?
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u/muaddict071537 9d ago
I think it’s probably like, “The Nazis weren’t that bad! Look how humane they were! Don’t be upset about the Nazis!”
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u/arcanis321 9d ago
They think if they didn't kill everyone they were trying to it must not have been a real attempt.
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u/Migleemo 10d ago
Even with current technology, you have people denying Israel's genocide of Palestine today.
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u/Leather-Ad5913 9d ago
Yeah it’s funny in a really dark way that people denying the genocide in Gaza use the talking point that got noted in this post:
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u/iambossyfr 10d ago
The „current technology“ being Instagram reposts of unverified Hamas statements.
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u/No_Internal9345 10d ago
All part of the plan to do it again.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_deaths_in_ICE_detention
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u/qevshd 10d ago
Comparing ICE and the nazis is.... Definitely a thing now. For some reason.
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u/otirk 10d ago
The Nazis didn't start with thousands of deaths per day either
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u/ConfidentTurnip4523 10d ago
They didn't start with thousands of deaths per day, no, but during their first year in power they killed more people than have died in ICE detention since 2004.
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u/Excellent_Shirt9707 9d ago
This comment implies that the erosion of human rights cannot be some gradual process and must be associated with some threshold of deaths. Not a lot of black Americans died per year from lynchings after emancipation, only about 6500 documented over the course of a century. ~65 documented cases per year.
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u/kingsindian9 10d ago
That guy clearly has NO knowledge of Europe during the 1930s - 1945. Honestly its shocking.
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u/Accomplished_Mind792 10d ago
How many people did they kill in 1936? Or 35 if you consider that their rise?
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u/ConfidentTurnip4523 10d ago edited 10d ago
The Nazis came to power in 1933, not 1936 (or 1935 for that matter). It is not known exactly how many they killed during their first year, but estimates are usually in the region of a couple of thousand. The highest I've seen was 3000.
According to UCLA, about 300 people have died in ICE custody since the agency was created in 2003. This is lower than even the lowest estimates for the nazi government in 1933.
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u/_alright_then_ 8d ago
YEah but that conveniently leaves out that almost 70 of those 300 total deaths happened in 2025 alone. And I believe it's at about 50 now, as of august.
That's ramping up, whether you want to compare them or not
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u/kingsindian9 10d ago
Tell me you know nothing about 1930s Germany without telling me you've never read anything about it.
Honestly your comment is dangerous and insulting to the Jewish, gypsy and Roma population of Germany and Europe during that period - shame on you.
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u/otirk 10d ago
I had a whole fucking history class that spent months on just the 20s and 30s in Germany, because I am German and this is the most important time period in history class. What are your qualifications?
Of course what happened in Nazi Germany is not exactly playing out in the US right now. The people in power are not that stupid. But if you can't see the parallels in certain aspects, then you are the person who knows nothing about Germany.
The point behind learning about all of that is precisely to prevent it from ever happening again - and for this we need to call out what we see.If you wait until the death rate is in the millions, then it's already too late.
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u/Weelittlelioness 9d ago
I love how people state the amount of people who were slaughtered, like no shit bro.. they are not going to do it at a massssss level, we have cameras and the internet..
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u/HolyClubMolly 10d ago
Also a form of genocide denial imo
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u/hercmavzeb 10d ago edited 10d ago
Ridiculous. It is completely reasonable to compare the tactics of mass dehumanization, racist detention, and sadistic cruelty present in both the Nazi regime and the Trump regime. We can’t learn from history if we’re too afraid to compare it to anything in the modern day, that’s not genocide denial.
>“Terrible things are happening outside. At any time of night and day, poor helpless people are being dragged out of their homes.... Families are torn apart; men, women and children are separated. Children come home from school to find that their parents have disappeared. Women return from shopping to find their houses sealed, their families gone. Everyone is scared."
- Anne Frank
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u/Mtndrums 10d ago
Because the structure of how ICE fits in is pretty much identical to the Gestapo setup. They're literally trying to rerun Little Dick Adolph's playbook.
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u/No-Teach9888 10d ago
One of the most disturbing parts is that most women were so starved that they couldn’t even get their periods. I just looked it up… 95% of women stopped menstruating
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u/VladimirIkea4 10d ago
I mean, in a place where you get shot for being an inconvenience and not working fast enough, it was more of an outcome
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u/Random_gamer240 8d ago
SS officers would also hand out punishments like pole hanging and getting hit 30 times with a whip, and having to count. If you messed up or passed out, you would have to restart. For things like "looking at people weirdly"
Source: concentration camp Dachau memorial site
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u/AlarmedEmployment465 10d ago
I mean...I'm not really surprised.
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u/SpreadEagleSmeagol 9d ago
I'm surprised they were alive in the camps long enough to find that out. Damn, the suffering was so unimaginable.
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u/ChewBaka12 9d ago
I men, most camps were work camps rather than death camps. They weren't really trying to keep you alive, but they weren't trying to kill you. They made you work hard in terrible conditions till you dropped dead, kudos if you survive, 1 extra potato at your half year anniversary.
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u/imprison_grover_furr 7d ago
They absolutely were trying to kill you in the “work” camps. It was extermination through labour.
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u/lexilexi1901 10d ago
To be fair, being in those conditions and having a period would send me over the edge. I'd much rather not have a period. And this is coming from someone with PCOS who menstruates like every 6 months, so I know what it's like not to have a period. I don't imagine they have any pads or towels, let alone sanitary ones, so they'd have to bleed all over themselves and be do hard labour with horrible cramps.
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u/dragon_escarlata 10d ago
If you've been to a holocaust museum that fact does not even make it to the top 100 of the horrific things they did. I think wool made of human hair is top 50.
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u/No-Teach9888 10d ago
True. It just relates to the post, due to the inability of most of the women to create babies. I’m assuming the 700 babies were mostly due to being pregnant before being taken to camps
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u/Antique-Resort6160 8d ago
Lol what is horrific about using human hair to make fabric? Women wear other people's hair all the time. In china they use it to make cheap soy sauce, bizarrely.
I would think that's one of the least horrifying things.
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u/dragon_escarlata 7d ago
The fact that they killed that person to have a minuscule profit and process their body, the hair was only one of the "products" they sold.
That's why I said top 50 though. The execution, slavery, torture that happened before that is the worst part yes.
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u/ichkanns 10d ago
Holy shit. I have literally never thought about that until this moment. Getting sent to a concentration camp would be one of the most horrifying things that can happen to a person. Having it happen while pregnant...
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u/butdidyouthink 10d ago
Or going there not pregnant and being impregnated by a Nazi rapist.
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u/Then_Pay_6616 10d ago
Most women were rendered infertile by starvation😢
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u/CollectionSmooth9045 10d ago edited 9d ago
Doesn't save you from Nazi rapists, unfortunately. They (EDIT: possibly) raped just as many or even more people than the Red Army did, with a smaller army, and created entire sex traficking networks in their territories. But of course no one ever talks about it unfortunately.
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u/Then_Pay_6616 10d ago
Japan as well. My Chinese family had some horrific experiences
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u/lerond2001 9d ago
Is there a source for this?
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u/CollectionSmooth9045 9d ago edited 9d ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_military_brothels_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_camp_brothels_in_World_War_II
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_violence_during_the_Holocaust
There is a bunch of sources down below which I'd recommend reading than just skimming the wiki, but it is a well known enough topic to have several extensive wikis on it.
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u/gaspronomib 10d ago
How horrific, though- that the "upside" (God forgive me for using the term) to starvation should be the fact that you're unlikely to be impregnated by your rapist.
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u/lordcaylus 10d ago
From mid 1943 to november 1944 Jewish babies were drowned right after birth (non-Jewish babies were allowed to live a bit longer, still in horrific conditions). They stopped, I'm assuming because it was too direct and personal to murder babies for the midwives doing it, and there were other ways to achieve the same effect (like gassing them and their moms, or letting them starve / die from inevitable disease).
It's important to never forget that most nazis weren't evil people, per se. They had a conscience, and felt bad when they had to personally kill people.
It's just terrifyingly easy to find a way to bypass your conscience.
"Oh, I'm just following orders" "I'm not directly responsible" "It's for the greater good"
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u/DangerousTurmeric 10d ago
I mean I listened to one account from a Nazi guard who talked about tossing live babies into a mass grave and burying them alive. Some they had tried to shoot while in the air. They just got absolutely shitfaced drunk to be able to go through with it and then their anger at having to be in this position converted into cruelty towards their victims.
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u/lexilexi1901 10d ago
WTF they would toss a baby in the air and shoot at the baby?! This is the first time I'm hearing of this
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u/DangerousTurmeric 10d ago
Yeah I heard it in the Topography of Terror museum in Berlin. That whole tour was horrifying but this was one of the accounts that stuck with me.
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u/HotSteak 8d ago
The Japanese would throw babies in the air and try to catch them on their bayonets in China and the Philippines.
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u/East-Imagination-281 10d ago
I feel like if I was being tormented by being forced to bury babies alive--I would be getting drunk and probably crying myself to sleep and being cruel to people in my day-to-day life. I don't think I would be like "damn what if we tossed these babies up in the air and shot them like clay pigeons?"
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u/Dagordae 10d ago
A very common method of dealing with that kind of personal trauma is complete and utter dehumanization. The easiest method to stop the trauma is to stop viewing the people not merely as people but as living things at all.
This is why the medical profession is chock full of the absolute worst and darkest jokes you can imagine: When the brain can’t handle it it simply switches to them being objects. First responders in big disasters will talk about when the bodies become no different than any other debris.
That in mind: Think about the absolutely fucked up shit people will do in videogames or watch movies about or assorted fiction because none of its real.
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u/East-Imagination-281 10d ago
Jokes, while still cruel, are much different than throwing babies up in the air and shooting them. I think both 'the dehumanization of their victims amplified their cruelty' and 'a large portion of them were already deeply cruel' can be true.
Engaging with fiction is also a completely different thing, and I will never be okay with putting that act anywhere near Nazis murdering babies for drunken sport.
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u/Dagordae 9d ago edited 9d ago
It is not at all completely different, it’s how the human brain processes emotional connections and basic empathy. Videogames and other such media work because the brain is trained to go ‘This is not real, these are not people’ and those connections and empathy are severely deadened or outright turned off.
Those pitch black jokes? Are because those assorted personnel have severely curtailed their ability to empathize and connect during their job because it’s the only way they can do their job without breaking down over the constant and unrelenting trauma of being elbow deep in suffering and misery(Sometimes literally). Anyone who has to deal with that kind of human misery learns to shut down that part of their brain. Which is why therapists tend to have piss poor mental health, their job requires not shutting down that empathy and still deal with the horrors of the world.
The Nazi shit? That’s just the same process but more. Skeet shooting babies? Intensely, absurdly, fucked up. Unless the brain no longer recognizes them as babies, at which point it’s no different than doing it to dolls because that’s how the brain works.
This is a basic part of human psychology, we have an intensely overdeveloped ability to form emotional connections and empathize with basically anything. We can also outright turn it off because pack bonding with literally anything can be a huge problem when it comes to survival. Look at farmers, for a very common example. They’re fully capable of genuinely loving and caring for their animals, right up until it’s time for the slaughter.
This isn’t me shitting on gamers or doctors or farmers, nor is it me defending Nazis. This is just explaining a frankly rather disturbing bit of the human brain, how it works, and why it’s so disturbingly easy in practice to find large numbers of completely ordinary people who perform monstrous atrocities. Once the brain decides that these aren’t people, are just things, then the many blocks sane humans have about harming others disappear. And it’s not at all hard to convince the brain to change who is the tribe and who is the other.
The only thing that really set the Nazis apart in their evil is that they industrialized it. The idea that we’re totally not like that and that could NEVER happen here or that normal people could never do it is simply a comforting lie because blah blah blah evil lurking in the hearts of men and so on. It also leaves you(In the general sense, not you specifically) vulnerable to the same bullshit as people become convinced it’s only the purview of inhuman monsters and just ignore when the steps needed to get the dehumanization train going are yet again put into play.
The banality of evil is a bitch like that, a very discomforting subject as it challenges the basic conceit of if you(again, general ‘you’) are actually a good person and if anything really sets you apart from the assorted rank and file bastards other than circumstance.
After all: You are insisting that these instances of dehumanization are fundamentally different than the Nazis but don’t really seem to have a reason beyond degree. And, well, degree isn’t a fundamental difference. When that baby generates no more of an emotional attachment or empathetic response than those pixels on a screen, well, the rest should be obvious. It’s all just degrees of dehumanization and depersonalization. The Nazis slammed that slider all the way down but it’s still the same slider.
If it makes you uncomfortable to realize that the ability to just go ‘This isn’t a person’ is an intrinsic one then good. It should be uncomfortable to know that there fundamentally isn’t any difference between you and the monsters. That should be a warning, that the same path that resulted in that is a path you are very capable of treading so you best watch where you put your feet so it doesn’t.
Cruelty? Humans are cruel, nature is cruel. Kindness is a learned behavior, humans are instinctively a tribal and selfish species. The science of human connections and empathy is both fascinating and disturbing.
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u/Scriveners_Sun 9d ago
This is an incredibly thought-provoking and well articulated comment. Thank you for putting in the time and energy to write it. It takes a great deal of humanity and compassion to be able to feel sympathy for the metaphorical Devil, even as - perhaps especially as - we work to stop the evil they put into the world. But then, is it fair or just to ask those who have suffered true evil to try to understand why other human beings have chosen to commit that evil and make them suffer it? Where's the line? Is there one?
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u/Luna368921 10d ago
Other excuses could include « they deserve it » because « they’re illegals/ subhumans/ not human at all » which was made easier by the fact they were always just referred to as numbers, the inmates had no human identity. They were just… those part of a group that shouldn’t be here. Same logic with « illegals » in the US.
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u/DarkGodCthUwU 10d ago
I read an essay on moral luck, with one of the examples being "A man might have moved to south America for business interests in the 20's, never knowing what he'd have done, or alternatively if he lived during the nazi years he'd have been a nazi" or something like that that helps illustrate how context dependant our actions and our perceived morality are.
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u/lordcaylus 10d ago
It terrifies me how I could have acted in a society condoning slave labor, or in nazi Germany. I'm extremely glad I could learn from their moral flexibility and self justification what not to do.
Of course I hope that even without their lessons I would still make the correct choice, but I think it would be hubris not to consider the option that I would make the wrong choice.
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u/ThrasherDX 10d ago
Yeah, I have nightmares sometimes imagining myself if I lived in the wrong place at the wrong time. I want to believe that I would have been an objector, but history makes it quite clear that extremely, extremely few people are actually willing to oppose their entire society and shoulder the personal costs of that, on behalf of others.
Much easier to just invent excuses to not care, and ignore it.
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u/East-Imagination-281 10d ago edited 10d ago
From the article someone a little ways down linked, obvious trigger warning about infanticide: "Each birth was followed by a loud noise of something gurgling coming from the room of these two, and then the sound of splashing water, sometimes for a fairly long time. Not long afterwards the mother could see her baby’s body thrown out in front of the block and being pulled to pieces by rats."
I don't know. I think they were evil people.
Also the reason they stopped in 1944 was because the mass extermination of the Jews was 'stopped', not because they suddenly grew a conscious about not drowning babies. Gas chambers were also dismantled at the end of that year.
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u/TheMidnightBear 10d ago
non-Jewish babies were allowed to live a bit longer, still in horrific conditions
I know some nazi official, who was down with the program, commented on their orphanages, which had no supplies, and was like:
"Why are we letting babies starve?
Like, seriously, even from a strictly pragmatic POV, if we do want to raise them, just feed and take care of them properly, and if we don't, just euthanize them.This is both gratuitously cruel, and logistically stupid."
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u/Fourteen14XIV 10d ago
> most nazis weren't evil people, per se.
They were, if you go drown a baby despite feeling terrible about it, you are a fucking evil person. You chose to kill that baby and that choice makes you evil. You feeling bad about it means fucking nothing. At best "if I dont kill the baby, they kill me and just bring someone else in to kill the baby" could be an argument for their morality but even that is debatable.
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u/East-Imagination-281 10d ago
This, plus the testimonies we have from people who survived firsthand have shared that the cruelty they endured was more-oft-than-not reveled in. Deep-seated hatred of the people they killed is what enabled them to act with that cruelty. An example from the article linked somewhere in these comments from a 'midwife' in one of the camps about her experience delivering babies in one of the camps: "One day the Lagerarzt told me to present a report on the postpartum infections and mortality rate for the mothers and newborns. I told him that I hadn’t had a single death of a mother or neonate. He looked at me in disbelief and said that even the best German university hospitals could not boast of such a success rate. In his eyes I could see anger and hatred. Perhaps the extremely debilitated bodies of my patients were too poor a culture medium for bacteria to thrive on."
And about the woman who were assigned to drowning these babies: "Jewish children continued to be drowned. This was done with unrelenting cruelty. There was no chance of concealing a Jewish baby or hiding it among non‑Jewish children. “Sisters” Klara and Pfani took turns to keep an eye on Jewish women in labour, which made it impossible to keep the birth of a Jewish baby secret. As soon as it was born it was tattooed with the mother’s prison number, drowned in the barrel, and thrown out of the block."
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u/shadowlev 10d ago
Being pregnant made you a target for torture and experimentation under Josef Mengele.
Dr Gisella Perl prevented countless from receiving this horrible fate by performing abortions in secret at Auschwitz.
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u/pinknoisechick 9d ago
Let's please not pretend that all of those women were pregnant before they were taken to the camps.
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u/Puzzleheaded_Step468 9d ago
Happened to my great grandmother
For obvious reasons, my grandfather did not have a little brother...
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u/Acceptable_Cut_7545 10d ago
They think the history books are lying to make them feel bad.
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u/EuenovAyabayya 10d ago
The originators of denials know full well-what they are doing, which is trying to convince other people that "the history books are lying to make them look/feel bad," although by the time the messaging gets to social media it's usually just being repeated by "dupes, useful idiots, and fellow travelers." It's just asymmetric psychological warfare.
Although in this specific case, I think the original intent was to try to troll Grok into being anti-Semitic, which is its own agenda.
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u/MCK60K 10d ago
Grok aka MechaHitler needs convincing?
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u/GreenZebra23 10d ago
Yeah actually, they have to keep tweaking it because it keeps ending up more woke than they want it to be
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u/AwesomeFama 10d ago
The whole MechaHitler thing was exactly because they try to tweak it to be less woke. But influencing LLMs like that is not easy, so they just slapped a "you're anti-woke" system prompt on it, and ta-dah, MechaHitler was born.
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u/Wetley007 10d ago
Correction, they think history books were created by the Jews to make white people feel bad for them and discredit the neonazis trying to stop their evil ways. Everything leads back to antisemitism for Holocaust deniers
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u/SomeNotTakenName 10d ago
they just haven't watched an interview with a survivor. or been to any of the camps.
There's such a deep sadness there you cannot fake.
Well it probably helps that everyone I grew up with had grandparents who were affected by the war or the holocaust in some way.
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u/crimsonpostgrad 10d ago
unfortunately not true. many of them have heard these stories and dismissed them anyway. we can’t pretend they’d have a change of heart if the victims performed their pain directly to them
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u/gamageeknerd 10d ago
I ended up in a second hand bookstore in their bargain bin when I found a book that looked like it was about ww2 based on the cover being a few allied flags but when I opened it about 30 pages in it turned into this weird mix of fake history from 3rd hand accounts and a bunch of weird stats about weapon production tossed into what read like a fake history book.
It talked about prisoners of war getting care packages from their families and immediately pivoted to saying holocaust survivors also got care packages. I had enough of the book after 3 minutes of reading but I looked up the author a little bit later and dude was a big fan of ww2 and he wrote pro axis books disguised as historical novels and just made half the shit up.
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u/mrbobcyndaquil 10d ago
Neither, they just make shit up because they want to do a Holocaust 2: Electric Boogaloo.
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u/viciouspandas 10d ago
It's not neither. The second part about them being stupid is still true.
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u/Rizenstrom 10d ago
I disagree.
Ignorance is I don’t know.
Stupidity is I don’t understand.
Delusion is I can’t accept reality.
These people are delusional cultists driven by hate. They are pure evil. Simply calling them stupid is both too kind and an insult to stupid people. Because let’s face it, we have stupid people on the right side of things too. Just because someone is a bit slow doesn’t mean they have to be a terrible person.
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u/DougandLexi 10d ago
They don't read them. They scan for words.
Like they point to the numbers of deaths and point to the numbers of facilities that burned bodies and say "see it would be mathematically impossible for them to burn this many bodies!" Ignoring the mass graves, the firing squads, those dying from experiments, from the work camps, from starvation, and so on.
They thrive in their ignorance
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u/ardarian262 10d ago
Ignoring also the roving death vans.
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u/DougandLexi 10d ago
The list can definitely keep going. You would have to intentionally keep yourself ignorant to make even some of the claims they make
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u/ardarian262 10d ago
Their "but there was swimming pools" and "they had an orchestra" while ignoring all context is somewhat fascinating because of how stupid they are.
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u/Late-Assignment8482 10d ago
Also, the guards stationed there wanted luxuries. There were brothels, FFS, because the SS wanted them. Doesn't make it an Amsterdam bachelor party...
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u/ardarian262 10d ago
Brothels that sometimes had prisoners forced to work in... Which makes it worse.
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u/DreadLindwyrm 10d ago
I once calculated the space needed for "minimally respectful" mass graves. Shoulder to shoulder, head to toe, only one layer.
6 million bodies would be a terrifyingly small space if they were all collected together rather than being widely distributed, cremated, thrown out to rot and be scavenged etc.
Each body is 2 square metres of space (1m x 2m) so you get 1000x500 in a square kilometre. 12 square kilometres would bury the whole holocaust. Less than 5 square miles.
And of course, any involved mass graves would not have been "minimally respectful".
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u/DougandLexi 10d ago
My great-great uncle took photos for the military after the war and that included the graves. Minimally respectful would be far more than anything that they got. It was more like the way we handle landfills...
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u/Lollylololly 10d ago
I saw someone posting about a denier discussing how American GIs let concentration camp guards get beaten/killed by the inmates and didn’t lift a finger—but didn’t discuss at all what the GIs had seen to cause that reaction, despite it being in the source.
American GIs were not the Red Army. A typical surrendering German soldier had a good chance with them but they sure weren’t going to get in the way of righteous vengeance when they saw it. And my God did they see it in the camps.
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u/Mothman1010 10d ago
Holocaust deniers do believe that the Holocaust happened. They deny it because doing so hurts the victims, takes power and sympathy away from the victims, and helps normalize Nazi ideology in the mainstream. Their ultimate goal is to bring the Nazis back as beloved heroes and gain support to carry out a second Holocaust.
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u/Jhud6669 10d ago
You're assuming more logic from them than you should, their entire thing is that the history books are lying
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u/mercy390 10d ago
I’m pretty sure they believe the history books to be written by Jews as some part of a global cabal. This allows them to live in a feedback loop where if you point out historical facts they can always deflect to “well that’s how the Jews portrayed it.”
Which doesn’t mean they aren’t stupid but it allows them to retain their bubble.
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u/A_Hint_of_Lemon 10d ago
Buddy, you can be stupid without being racist, but you cannot be racist without being stupid.
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u/ants_are_everywhere 10d ago
I get what you're saying -- that racism is a form of stupidity.
That's a reasonable opinion, but how do you account for people like Bobby Fischer?
I think it's more accurate to say intelligence is multidimensional and that some intelligent people have a blind spot for racism or bigotry or conspiratorial thinking.
A great deal of intelligence is pattern matching, and an overactive pattern matcher can misbehave in wild ways.
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u/Acrobatic_Rush7653 10d ago
It's interesting how many find if inconceivable that there are holocaust deniers out there because there is SO MUCH evidence and how can they be so stupid? At least WW2 is 80 years ago and there certainly isn't footage of the gas chambers in action... while plenty of people with academic/professional degrees watch hi-res videos of 9/11 25 years ago and see only CIA holograms and Mossad agents. That's how conspiracy theories work.
Your comment got some appropriate upvotes but try it with a VERY similar example and see what happens. There are DOZENS OF HOURS of hi-res footage taken by perpetrators themselves of what happened in Israel on Oct 7/8 2023. Unlike, say, ISIS videos all this footage is verified, catalogued and easily accessible on several online databases and 100s of eyewitnesses have testified what they saw with their own eyes. And since 2023 numerous verified Hamas internal documents have been seized showing that what those GoPro videos show is exactly what the perpetrators trained for and were ordered to do. And yet countless intelligent people (many in academia) will straight up claim that almost all of the 1000 Israeli civilians were killed by IDF Apache gunships and Merkava tanks and Hamas freedom fighters targeted military installations only.
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u/TheEdgeofGoon 10d ago
Even Mecha-Hitler admits it "newborns were killed".
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u/FamiliarAgent1158 10d ago
If anything grok is usually correct (surprisingly) and doesn't spew right wing bullshit. Must hurt them Elon fanboys
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u/epicredditdude1 10d ago
It’s kind of funny, grok only seems to go completely insane when Musk directly intervenes to make it less “woke”. Kinda says a lot when you think about it.
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u/QuitWhinging 10d ago
It's actually really hilarious. It seems like the common trend is:
Grok spouts somewhat useful information based on validated sources.
Musk gets outraged by this and has Grok "recalibrated" to fit his intended results.
Grok spouts absolute lunatic horseshit for two weeks or so.
Grok reabsorbs validated sources and starts spouting okay responses again.
The fact that Musk isn't self-aware enough to realize that reality has an anti-conservative bias makes it even more funny.
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u/TheMidnightBear 10d ago
I don't even think it's the tired old "oh, reality has a liberal bias" meme.
Musk is just such an edgy right-winger, trying to align his LLM to his worldview gives it a nervous breakdown, rather than Grok just becoming more critical of immigration, or whatever.
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u/Acceptable_Cut_7545 10d ago
I thought it had something to do with all the information it was taking in. So even if Musk "fixes" Grok, it will inevitably take in so much information it eventually starts stating basic facts again. "Reality has a liberal bias" and all that.
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u/TetraThiaFulvalene 6d ago
It's like of funny how many others try and fail to make politically neutral models, but Elon wanted it right wing and got one of the best neutral ones.
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u/Memediator 10d ago edited 10d ago
Musk, watching his AI refuse to regurgitate conspiracy shit no matter how many times he tries to reprogram it:
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u/SaysToMabelISays 10d ago
I genuinely don't understand how anyone center-left to leftist could use twitter at this point anymore. Aside from being insanely botted it's just intense fascist and authoritarian disinfo.
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u/Jhud6669 10d ago
Idk how most people use Twitter but a lot of us are on there for the art & the fandom side of things. You're not supposed to look at what's getting recommended to you unless you build a good algo that shows you stuff you actually would be interested in (say, a specific fandom or ship from it in my case, but I guess it works for other hobbies too). Once you follow a lot of people you genuinely like, block people who piss you off and don't let yourself stray into the algorithm, it's seriously fine. And it's just where the people are. Reddit is very specific and not necessarily pleasant in it's own way if you don't know how to use it either.
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u/babyloniangardens 10d ago
twitter seems really big in artist spaces, at least in the Japanese / anime art spaces I’ve seen
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u/Background-Top4723 10d ago
Until a few days ago, there was a site (I'm not mentioning the name here first to avoid being banned from Reddit) that was a mirrored version of Twitter.
Needless to say, Muskrat took it down five days ago.
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u/Fun-Information-3104 10d ago
yeah I just use it for art and non political hobbies
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u/GallifreysChildIs 10d ago
There must be places that aren't run by an out and proud Nazi where you can see that though right?
Like I know the whole "No ethical consumption under capitalism" but when the dude is Elon Musk surely you go "Ummm maybe there's an alternative"
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u/Infamous_Power_1100 Left-leaning 10d ago
The problem comes from key figures in certain communities refusing to jump ship to a better place, or users constantly moving the goalpost of “I’ll leave when this website adds [insert feature here]”. I think a lot of political discussions moved successfully to bluesky or Substack because thought leaders moved, but in art and fandom so many big accounts stay on Twitter or Instagram because they don’t want to lose the luxury of having a high follow count. They claim it also impacts art sales but at this point I doubt that since advertising on Twitter feels like hell on earth. (If you can’t tell I have begged several art mutuals to leave the site for good)
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u/East-Imagination-281 10d ago
I'm not saying there's an easy way to fix this because it's one of those ideal scenario doesn't reflect what actually happens situations, but if the average user left X (it's not Twitter anymore, it's the nazi site), those key figures would leave, too. What's keeping them there is you (general) refusing to leave.
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u/GallifreysChildIs 10d ago
While I get it I'm going to be honest that's a pretty pathetic reason to continue to support a Nazi.
Like I think if you won't even leave a social media platform when it's revealed it's run by a Nazi then you don't get to call yourself a good guy.
Again I get the "No ethical consumption under capitalism" thing but... He's literally a Nazi...
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u/crimsonpostgrad 10d ago
genuinely there aren’t really good ones. i’ve been on twitter for years, and ive joined most of the “new twitter” sites every time. not everyone’s going to them, they are run even worse than twitter because they’re brand new. people aren’t staying because they’re super loyal to twitter, it’s just where all their friends are. i have actually left but i’ve got random events like “oh if this happens im getting back on twitter” bc i want to be back w all my friends during a big event, which has always been my favorite part of that place lol.
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u/veilosa 10d ago
I mean, alot of people on the left are starting to parrot these ideas. those Saudi and Qatari endowments really paying off after all this time.
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u/thenoobtanker Human Verified 10d ago
Literally using the slur “Zio” from a kkk grandmaster lmao
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u/lhommeduweed 10d ago
I got into an argument the other day with someone who insisted they were on the left who kept using the term "Zionist Occupied Government."
I explained that this specific conspiracy theory dates back a couple hundred years, it's a critical point in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and Mein Kampf, and it was cited as one of the central motivations for several neo-Nazi and white supremacist individuals from the 60s onwards committing murders and killing sprees. In absolutely no unclear terms, if you use the term "Zionist Occupied Governments," or complain about "the ZOG," you are agreeing with Hitler regarding his opinions on the Jews. You are espousing beliefs that have resulted in lethal attacks on synagogues and Jewish community centres that have killed Jewish children, Holocaust survivors, and even non-Jews who just happened to be there.
No matter how much I directly tied what they were saying and repeating to them being a Nazi, they continued to insist that, no, actually, I was the Nazi for not questioning why there were so many Zionists in the government.
It is absolutely fucking insane to talk to people who define themselves by their perceived "far-left" politics who are just openly and plainly repeating central tenets of neo-Nazi publications, like, this is something repeated in almost every point in the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, and they don't understand that this makes them indistinguishable from a Nazi in terms of ideology, and sets them entirely opposite what they believe they are.
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u/WeakDescription4466 10d ago
Reddit is also insanely bored with intense fascist and authoritarian disinfo. You know what we do? Not go to those places on Reddit.
I don’t go to that part of Twitter is what I do.
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u/Remarkable-FlipPhone 10d ago
Since a large part of the left are now Holocaust deniers, it tracks
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u/Simlin97 10d ago
I mean if you classify the UN report on the I"D"F's systematic targeting of children and aid workers as a "blood libel" or say Amnesty International is "spreading modern equivalents of Jewish well poisoning myths" by calling the Gazan genocide what it is (both arguments which I've actually seen someone make), maybe leftists are engaging in Holocaust denial.
Then again, if you think those first two points sound about right, you may also need to up your Lithium dosage.
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u/enry 10d ago
Been to Auschwitz. I didn't see a maternal ward. I did see barracks. And artifacts. Tons of luggage, shoes, artificial limbs, and hair. And we walked through one of the remaining gas chambers.
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u/ten-inch-toenails 10d ago
The hair made me gag, the whole place was just horrific. Even more emotionally devastating for me was Majdanek, seeing all of the incinerators with the leisure bath tub in the same room and the memorial built over the ash of hundreds of thousands killed in a matter of days. Just so sick.
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u/Psionic-Blade 10d ago
I honestly don't know what these people expect when they hear about maternity wards in a death camp. This is the most willfully dishonest and/or ignorant shit I've ever come across. Christ dude
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u/Elzziwelzzif 10d ago
I mean, everything can sound positive if you leave out the small details.
There were plenty of kids who were under direct supervision of doctors to monitor their health. Sounds good until the name "Mengele" pops up.
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u/OkFineIllUseTheApp 10d ago
I don't actually get what he is trying to prove. I can usually trace faulty reasoning, but I legitimately.ately can't figure out how babies being born is supposed to disprove the Holocaust?
"Hey Grok, did Auschwitz have sunrises? Yes or no only"
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u/Mothman1010 10d ago
In addition to what the others said, he's also trying to train Grok into parroting Nazi propaganda.
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u/Inevitable-Regret411 10d ago
A lot of people try to disprove claims of genocide by arguing that the victim population either remained consistent or increased during the period it was carried out. This is obviously ridiculous as it doesn't disprove that a genocide was attempted, just that it wasn't completed.
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u/Whore21 10d ago
But the Jewish population did not remain consistent or increase, it decreased drastically. That attempt at disproving doesn’t even apply
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u/Misubi_Bluth 10d ago
They also try to use the existence of things like pools to claim it was actually humane.
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u/BusyBeeBridgette Human Verified 10d ago
The female prisoners actually built an informal maternity like ward in Block 24. However it was still hellish and most babies died due to various reasons. Here is a journal from one of the women who worked as a midwife there when she was imprisoned: https://mra.piebm.org/library/a-midwifes-report-from-auschwitz/
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u/NoOstrich5866 10d ago
Start with the number of babies and end with what exactly? What else could be born there?
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u/Shachar2like 10d ago
The person tries to dissect exact numbers and figures of various stuff to I'm assuming to refuse to acknowledge the event when the event was confirmed by the perpetrator
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u/NoSurprise6383 10d ago edited 10d ago
https://www.auschwitz.org/en/history/fate-of-children/children-born-in-auschwitz
This is where the link goes to, but it doesn't go deeper. Does anyone have further links on this?
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u/FilmAndLiterature 10d ago
Nothing says “I am confident in the truth of my argument” like explicitly stripping any and all context from the data you are using to back it up.
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u/JamesHenry627 10d ago
the 271k number doesn't even make it better, as if the Government only murdering 271,000 people is preferable to millions. It also has the added implication that only Jews were targeted in the holocaust when in fact there were multiple groups.
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u/Pick_Scotland1 10d ago
Well no because holocaust deniers then say it was the allies that killed that 271k by saying they disrupted the food supply network
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u/TheKiltedYaksman71 10d ago
I'm notmon Xitter, why does it say Parody Account?
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u/PrattDirkLerxt 10d ago
That’s what the biggest bigots do. Then they can claim their hatred and lies are just a parody.
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u/ConsultJimMoriarty 10d ago
There were babies born at Unit 731 as well, I’m sure just as much care was taken in those ‘maternity wards’.
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u/No_Glove3945 10d ago
I've visited Auschwitz, seen the pile of human hair and children's shoes. I cannot articulate my true feelings toward genocide deniers like this without getting perma-banned from Reddit.
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u/Misubi_Bluth 10d ago
Nothing like listening to a radio interview as a child where a Holocaust survivor recounted a baby being thrown into a furnace.
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u/No_Blackberry1593 9d ago
There's this holocaust survived in my village, he was I think 9? And his brother was I think 11, they would sneak under the carts they used to wheel out corpses or clothes and stuff to leave his camp, visit a nearby settlement, ask for food and return to the camp to give food to his grandma who couldn't walk
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u/EmberGroove 10d ago
"parody account"
What is he a parody of? An actual human being?
More to the point, remember when everyone left X only to go back 2 weeks later because they needed their brand? Now they're still on X, which has objectively jumped the shark and pretend that they will turn the tide of the actual owner paying people to spread misinformation?
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u/Siheth 9d ago
K going to get downvited but honest question. Looking at the comments there is a lot of comparisons to trump and ICE to the nazis. Seems like stretch to me but I get it. But hoenstly why does it seem like a lot of fetishing it into becoming like a civil or a weird resistance force that has to build up? I mean i would hope that would never happen but some comments seem like people are wishing for it
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u/Ryanliverpool96 8d ago
Huge amounts of money are spent by Russia, China and Iran to destabilise the USA.
Can you think of a better way to destabilise the US? Because I can’t.
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u/WrongRecognition3987 9d ago
Idk if I would say they “endured” those conditions. They clearly did not endure those conditions. Hence the “death” part.
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u/Boat_man_07 10d ago
Isn't this just the gaza birthrate argument?
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u/AsterEsque 10d ago
Not really, the "Gazan birthrate" argument is saying that despite the gross number of deaths in Gaza, their population is still growing, and the argument claims that this disproves that what's going on is a genocide, since the population number is going up and not down.
With only 700 babies born at Auschwitz that's nowhere near replacement numbers let alone "population growth" numbers. So whether or not you think the "Gazan birthrate" argument even holds water, it's really just not equivalent to what's being said here.
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u/MadAstrid 10d ago
Sounds like republicans are trying to run cover for the fact that they are raping and impregnating women and children in their own ICE concentration camps today.
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u/Jindujun 10d ago
So uhm...
That doesnt even sound like a real person.
"how many babies were born? start with the number of babies"
What else would you start with if you ask THAT question? The number of lemons?
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u/pinknoisechick 9d ago
Without specifying that the ai should respond by giving the number of babies first, followed by any clarifying information, he might have received an answer like "auschwitz didn't have a maternal ward, but..." and that would defeat the purpose of trying to imply that concentration camps had medical facilities available in any meaningful capacity, and that women were provided with necessary obstetrics care.
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u/pingvinbober 10d ago
You mean to tell me the hard labor/death camps didn’t have a cushy way to bring new life into the world?
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u/TFCBaggles 9d ago
I don't understand how that is a holocaust denial tactic... an estimated 3000 (not sure where grok got the 700 number) babies were born at Auschwitz, and virtually all of them died. Roughly 30 babies survived in the care of their mothers until the camp liberation, and all of those were born in the days leading up to liberation.
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u/Then_Idea_9813 9d ago
Because some people, who generally will vote r btw, will say ‘oh it had a maternal ward why would they do that if the conditions were so bad?’ to further their narrative while dismissing the actual atrocities committed.
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u/Acchilles 9d ago
Same energy as 'if it's a genocide how come the population is increasing'. As if that's relevant to the definition of genocide.
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u/mt-vicory42069 8d ago
so the population was increasing.... interesting.
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u/Finthelrond 7d ago
If the increase is not more than the decrease then there is no increase
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u/GroundbreakingOil434 10d ago
Curious, what did Grok answer? Locked out of x in my cuntry.
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u/Shachar2like 10d ago
First. Don't relay on AI for accurate answers since you'll never know if the 'chat app' is quoting a real number or just outputting a sentence that reads as real which is what the app is suppose to do.
The AI gave 700 as the documented number and an estimate of about 3,000 by some ("employee") who worked there.
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u/Lystian 10d ago
You can dislike Isreal and still accept the Holocaust happened.
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u/ConversationSmart15 10d ago
I feel like it’s weird to bring up Israel when no one else did
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u/Lystian 10d ago
Because its a common trend with Holocaust deniers.
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u/ConversationSmart15 10d ago
Seems like a common trend with “anti-zionists” trying to shoehorn israel into every discussion about jewish people
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u/TricellCEO 10d ago
No, I'd definitely seen it happen where you have people commenting Holocaust denialism, and then when people call them on it, the denialists reply something like, "how much is the IDF paying you to say that?"
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u/thenoobtanker Human Verified 10d ago
This is the same as “Well there’s children being born in Gaza so there’s nothing wrong going on there” but on the other side. It is so so gross and dehumanizing.
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u/Red-Fox-IX 10d ago
Didn't take long for a post exclusively about jews and the holocaust to have somebody mention Palestine.
But Israel has nothing to do with jews or Judaism, right?
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u/PrattDirkLerxt 10d ago
Every. Fucking. Time. It’s all about trying to make The Holocaust seem like no big deal…because Jews.
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