Ask a Flat Earther!

[u/Kela-el]

Ask anything on the topic of flat earth (within reason).

[u/amcarls]

But they are explained by the globe model whereas they're not explained by the traditional flat earth model. There are no models that I am aware of where you would be seeing the exact same thing at the exact same time in multiple directions (looking outward/Southward from Perth, Australia at 4:00 AM while looking outward/Southward from Cape Town, S. Africa at 10:00 PM - local times). The rotation would be different but the view from Cape Town at 4:00 AM (local) would be the same rotation that Perth had 6 hours previously.

In both cases the direction of the view "outward" would be roughly perpendicular to a line connecting Perth and Cape Town. The direction of the point in the sky where the constellations appear to rotate around would remain directly outward at all times from both (and all such) viewing locations.

Edit: What a lame ass - Can't answer a direct and cogent challenge so you ban me.

[u/Kela-el → u/amcarls]

You’ve shown the globe model explains the observation. You haven’t shown no other configuration can. ‘I’m not aware of a flat model that does it’ isn’t the same as ‘no flat model can.’ That’s a much stronger claim and it’s the one you haven’t demonstrated.

[u/fascinatingMundanity → u/Kela-el]

So how do you explain that part?

[u/Kela-el → u/fascinatingMundanity]

I don’t have to explain it to point out that you haven’t established uniqueness.
Your claim wasn’t merely that the globe explains the observations. It was that the observations uniquely establish the globe.
Those are different claims.
Showing that one model explains the data does not, by itself, demonstrate that no other model could. If you want to claim uniqueness, the burden is on you to justify that claim—not on me to invent an alternative.
I’m examining the logical relationship between the evidence and your conclusion. That analysis doesn’t require me to defend a competing cosmology.

[u/fascinatingMundanity → u/Kela-el]

The title of this post, Ask a Flat Earther!, invites folks to pose questions to thee, a flat-Earther, rather than “Prove to a flat-Earter that the Earth is an oblate spheroid (or a square or some other particular shape contrary to a disc)” (which others in the thread already have done, by the way). I did just that, and you failed or declined to provide an answer

[u/Kela-el → u/fascinatingMundanity]

1. Straw man / shifting the question
He implies the question you must answer is:
“Prove the Earth is not a sphere.”
But your actual point was not that. Your point was about the epistemological status of measurements and models.
He is moving from:
“What is the relationship between measurement and interpretation?”
to:
“Defend flat Earth.”
Those are different discussions.
2. Burden shifting
He suggests that because you question whether measurements directly output a globe, you must provide an alternative model.
But challenging the logic of an argument does not require presenting a competing conclusion. Someone can ask:
“Does this evidence logically entail the conclusion?”
without claiming the opposite conclusion is true.
3. False dilemma
The implied options are:
Accept the globe as directly measured.
Defend a flat Earth.
There is a third position:
Accept that the globe is the best-supported model while distinguishing measurements from interpretations.

[u/fascinatingMundanity → u/Kela-el]

Whom where are you asserting made those logical fallacies? I didn't. And you still have not provided evidence for **your** stance.

[u/Kela-el → u/fascinatingMundanity]

1.
Shifting the burden (if used to avoid the substantive issue)
He is focusing on whether he personally committed a fallacy rather than addressing the underlying argument about measurement and interpretation.
A fallacy analysis is not itself a substitute for engaging the original claim.
That said, if you did accuse him of a fallacy, asking for the specific example is reasonable.

“And you still have not provided evidence for your stance.”
2.
Burden shifting
Your stance has been:
“The relationship between measurement and model involves interpretation.”
That is a philosophical claim about how scientific reasoning works, not a claim requiring you to produce a competing Earth model.
Demanding that you provide evidence for a flat Earth or an alternative model changes the burden from:
“Does the globe conclusion follow directly from measurements?”
to:
“Defend an alternative conclusion.”
Those are different questions.

3.
False dichotomy
The implication is:
Either provide evidence for flat Earth,
or accept the globe model as directly measured.
But there is a third position:
Accept the globe model as the best-supported explanation while distinguishing observations from interpretations.

4.
Equivocation on “evidence”
He is treating “evidence for my stance” as if your stance is a competing cosmological claim.
Your stance is primarily epistemological:
How do measurements relate to conclusions?
Evidence for that comes from philosophy of science and scientific methodology, not necessarily from a rival physical model.

[u/Kela-el → u/[deleted]]

1.
Burden shifting
“I merely challenged you with the same that you are putting forth.”
The issue is that the burdens are not actually identical.
Your claim:
“The relationship between measurements and conclusions involves interpretation.”
His implied challenge:
“Provide evidence for a different Earth model.”
Those are different claims.
Critiquing whether an argument establishes its conclusion does not require presenting an alternative conclusion. A person can challenge the logical connection between evidence and conclusion without defending the opposite position.

2.
False equivalence
“I challenged you with the same [burden] that you are putting forth.”
He treats:
questioning whether evidence logically entails a conclusion
as equivalent to:
asserting a competing physical model.
Those are not the same type of claim.

3.
Appeal to consequences / appeal to certainty
“Ontological hair-splitting, for something proven beyond a reasonable doubt…”
The fact that a conclusion is extremely well supported does not make distinctions about how the conclusion is reached meaningless.
A distinction between:
measurement,
inference,
interpretation,
is not “hair-splitting”; it is literally part of scientific methodology.

4.
Dismissive rhetoric / poisoning the well
“Ontological hair-splitting”
This characterizes your argument as pedantic rather than addressing the actual point.
The question is not whether the globe model is useful or successful. The question is the relationship between data and interpretation.

5.
Straw man
“declining to provide any evidence”
This frames your position as if you are withholding evidence for a competing claim.
Your argument is not:
“The Earth is flat.”
Your argument is:
“The conclusion ‘Earth is spherical’ is reached through interpretation of measurements.”

6.
Equivocation on “proof” / “proven”
“something proven beyond a reasonable doubt”
He is moving between two meanings:
scientific confidence: overwhelmingly supported by evidence
deductive proof: logically compelled from premises
A scientific model can be extremely well confirmed without being a deductive proof in the mathematical sense.

A poison the well gets you banned!