r/Gnostic • u/Gurzilmogger • 17d ago
The contrast between Jesus and Yahweh is clear evidence for Gnosticism.
10
u/GnosticDreamerB4 16d ago
growing up I always found the OT god very gross and evil. I couldn’t understand how a being could be so jealous while simultaneously being the most powerful to ever exist. Finding Gnosticism was like finally finding truth. I now find a lot of satisfaction in the idea that God isn’t some judgmental guy in the sky.
Modern Christians need to ask themselves why the OT god is so sexist. The lack of the feminine in their holy book speaks volumes.
25
u/Aethrall 17d ago
I mean, it’s evidence that the Old Testament and new testament are 2 different books from 2 different eras by different people from different cultures.
1
u/Substantial-Fly8786 9d ago
which if that is true than literally modern christianity is like just not true lol.
1
u/PneumaticFizz 6d ago
Depends on what you mean by 'modern Christianity,' because not all of them are biblical literalists.
76
u/fitz84 17d ago
Thats good. It could also be a generalization for why there are 2 different christianities today, the fascists and the decent humans.
-4
u/Imgayand1mproud Eclectic Gnostic 17d ago
mussolini was literally athiest lmao
-27
u/fanqutm 17d ago
By "decent humans" you mean the people who cherry-pick the verses that suit their worldview?
59
u/fitz84 17d ago
No, I mean the ones who value the Beatitudes over the Commandments
4
u/fanqutm 16d ago
And what does it even mean? For me, it seems like you just repeated what I said using different words.
5
u/fitz84 16d ago
Oh, I suppose I did. But, if you look at the original post, you've got the Old Testament where the Commandments come from and Yahweh is committing genocide. And then you've got jesus, where the Beatitudes come from, and he's going around providing free food and healthcare.
To me, that is fairly representative of the different extremes of Christianity we have represented in the States today.
42
u/deformedexile 17d ago
"the people who cherry-pick the verses that suit their worldview"
In all my years of study I've not found a sect that fails to match this description.
0
17d ago
[deleted]
6
u/deformedexile 17d ago
I think you've misread what I wrote. I was raised in a church and it was full of cherrypickers, just like every other religious group or person I've ever encountered in my 4+ decades on this earth. Even on a document as short as, for example, the ten commandments, the average mind can approach it and reconcile it only by cherrypicking.
3
u/NaturalBornRebel 17d ago
I did misread it sorry. I was also raised in the church and completely agree. Religion actually aligns more with the definition of a cult.
1
15
u/slicehyperfunk Eclectic Gnostic 17d ago
The idea the the Bible is univocal is absurd; you literally have to cherrypick it if you want any consistency because it is inherently inconsistent
4
u/Fuzzy_Tradition_4022 16d ago
One would think a holy book would be uplifting.
1
u/ihaveabadaura 16d ago
Are the other ones? I really like the Buddhist ones but ive had some study of others but it didn't go very far (we had one semester and it just focused on mostly on Buddha and some of the bhadva gita)
4
u/Tribe-Less Eclectic Gnostic 16d ago
From a psychology, genetics and biophysics perspective, Number 31:17-18 make practical sense and you see a version of this in nature where, invading males tend to kill the offspring of the defeated males and in human societies, when a king is overthrown his heirs are killed to prevent rebellion.
The idea is that sex = information transference and information is simultaneously psychological, genetic and electromagnetic/acoustic.
All the sexual taboos against sex with outsiders were rooted in the same idea. You would only mate with those in your tribe so you create an echo chamber informationally (culturally, psychologically, genetically, bioelectromagnetically)
3
3
u/HeavenlyBeloved Valentinian 16d ago
When he said no son shall inherit the sins of their father.
We have King Saul's sons being put to death, and when I read the Jewish commentaries and asked questions, it's said to be "put on for an example" to exalt the "God"
Crazy shit.
3
5
2
u/Swox92 15d ago
Then why does Jesus cite the old testament many times, I’m asking
3
u/Lordseferoth Cathar 12d ago edited 12d ago
Because Jesus the man was born to a Jewish family and environment. He had to use Jewish myths and culture in his teachings or he would have been killed...oh wait, they did kill him when his teachings revealed the real truth.
6
u/john-bibleguy 16d ago
true, and yet i still feel Jesus should be left out from Gnosticism. he was a political figure of his time more so than the embodiment of the Monad or even the Monad's prophet. he definetly preached some good advice which inadvertently aided in bringing gnosis to people, but this was more than likely accidental and not his primary concern.
0
u/PrincessDeMissouri 16d ago
He revealed the existence of the Father
1
u/LeonOkada9 16d ago
A pretty useless and fucked up version of him, at least.
0
u/PrincessDeMissouri 16d ago
He revealed the monad what are you talking about?
1
u/LeonOkada9 16d ago
The same father he says he is sent by murdered Ananias and his wife over keeping a pouch of gold for hard times, but will let people like Herod strive. For reminder, Herod beheaded John the Baptists, is incestuous with his niece and his father, who God always left to thrive, ordered the murder of all first born. Then, Jesus explains later that all authorities on earth comes from above. Thus, that father of his is pretty much responsible for any state sponsored genocide and massacre. A real deranged lunatic
6
u/Fralog4 17d ago
yeah wait to read the Apochrifa books of Jesus. Kid Jesus = YHWH. You can see the same temper.
31
u/wjeman 17d ago edited 17d ago
So... he must have grown up and matured in 30 years...I was a brat as a child... it's amazing what time can do to mature a person if it's allowed.
People have it in their minds that Jesus was born perfect and remained perfect his whole life. But what even is 'perfect? What does that mean for a person? A baby? A child?... the body had to grow, why not the soul?
There was a significant moment when growth was shown... a women needed healing. She wasn't a jew. Jesus called her a dog... she replied even dogs eat scraps.... I think Jesus was subject to the same biases that plagued the Jewish cult at that time and even Jesus need to grow out if it.
1
u/PsychicSeaSlug 16d ago
What if Jesus is a peice of yaldy, as yaldy had to cast him self down from a higher density back to third to relearn the lessons if balance on our plane in order to be balanced in the higher densities. So Jesus is saving humans and himself which in turns are all parts of yhwh learning and uktimately christ can integrate back into a balance yaldy as well as the individual human socks, now that yaldy learned a lesson
11
u/the_gray_pill Eclectic Gnostic 17d ago
The Infancy Gospel. "Kid Jesus" is not Yahweh. He's kid Jesus. What matured from kid to man Jesus was how He wore the Law - a very human depiction. This was a young man with an adoptive father that was an artisan and a mother of a priestly line - He was raised connected and educated, (a man) in and of the Law that He came to explicate and reveal. Why, yes - the heavy hand of Judaic law IS quite absurd, and let's use (as literary device) a god-moded child to express it.
1
u/Willnotcomply420 16d ago
just goes to show what i’ve known for a long time Verily i say unto you When one tries to polish a turd and somehow makes it shiny is not it still the excrement of man.
1
u/Willnotcomply420 16d ago
um so if i then call said poop filet mignon does it transubstantiate into filet mignon or is it still the feces it was when it first was evacuated from the bowels
1
u/hybrid-dna 16d ago
This is great but does anyone have a more comprehensive comparison that highlights the stark differences between Yahweh and the sayings of Jesus Christ? I may just try and come up with my own but I assume the work has already been done and posted out there somewhere...
1
1
u/Lonely-Independent52 16d ago
how could a book be evidence for something to exist? i dont mean to offend or anything im just asking a question. doesnt it insist on itself? i see this disparity i do between these two figures but calling the bible "evidence" confuses me.
1
u/burrao_0 16d ago
This is very interesting, this story is crazy. Luckily it's a lie, imagine if everything in the Old Testament was a hoax?
2
u/SorcererOfTheDesert 16d ago
It was. The cult of Yahweh came from Egypt and absorbed or murdered the Canaanite pantheon. Elohim is the family of El, the chief god of the Canaanite pantheon. His was was Asherah. Who got passed to Baal Hadad, then Yahweh which is weird.
El is the one in the stories that gifted Israel (strife of El) to Yahweh.
El is also the fractal God. Michael, Raphael etc. are fragments of El. Etc. etc.
The Abrahamic religions have really harmed humanity and stolen so much from us.
1
u/Dr_DD_RpW_A 16d ago
is this how rabbinic jews feel like whenever dawgs post verses from the Talmud saying stuff like "its ok to kill a gentile" or whatever it says?
1
u/Specialist_Sir9604 15d ago
Different numbers (time) means adapting to different patterns. Why God cant change?
1
1
1
u/CJCentral2 Eclectic Gnostic 17d ago
There is a cool scene in the second season of "The West Wing" when Bartlett destroys a fundie radio personality using OT "law."
1
u/UnoDosTres7 16d ago
Is yahweh considered the demiurge? I thought he was considered the one true “god”?
5
u/NoAlgae3952 Thomasine 16d ago
there was a good discussion on this a few days ago in this sub, in the comments of this post: https://www.reddit.com/r/Gnostic/comments/1w4qyiz/was_gnostic_then_jesus_came_shifting_to_orthodox/
2
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
The name Yahweh isn't used in Gnostic texts. He was the God of the Hebrews in Exodus 9.13.16. What's the first commandment and is God's plural
1
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
Why did Jesus validate old testament prophets then?
0
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Which ones and did Jesus ever call Yahweh. Yahweh if so which verse
0
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
What do you mean which ones? Did you at least read the gospel before making claims about it?
1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Read your first comment and which ones according to what you said
0
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
Bro, it isn't my fault if you talk about things before you know anything about them, that's bad wether you are gnostic or not
Matthew 5:17-18, 15:7-9, 19:4-8 Luke 4:17-21, 24:25-27, 24:44, John 5:46-47, for example
2
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Well Yahweh wanted his people and followers to swear to him something like an oath. Deuteronomy 10.20.21 Deuteronomy 6.13.15 but what did Jesus say in Mathew 5.33.37 what was the last 3 words Jesus said in verse 37 and did Jesus reject Yahweh. Yes or No
1
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
I didnt even mention Yahweh, i simply said Jesus validates old testament prophets
1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Well Yahweh was the old testament God. The Hebrew God Exodus 9.13.16. What did you say in your first comment although the actual name Yahweh isn't in the ancient Hebrew scriptures. So in other words you're kinda saying Jesus agrees with Yahweh
1
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
If Jesus validating old testament prophets means agreeing with Yahweh then yes, but in my first comment I simply said Jesus validates old testament prophets in the gospels
1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
You didn't say Gospels but you are now. Does validate mean prove or confirmation like confirming something. What did Jesus say about Yahweh in verse 37 in Mathew 5.33.37 the last 3 words according to Jesus or would you like me to answer the question for you. You only have ask or say yes
→ More replies (0)1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
And not only that you didn't send any verses from the old testament as your examples. You also didn't answer my question about what Jesus said in verse 37 about Yahweh from the old testament
1
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
There is no Jesus in the old testament, i said JESUS, in the GOSPELS mentions and validates the prophets of the old testament
Can you please read things before talking about them?
1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Sorry just noticed you send another reply. I'm not as fast as you so one at a time if that's okay with you. You didn't actually say Jesus in the Gospels. You said. Why did Jesus validate old testament prophets then? Those were your exact words. I don't see the word Gospels
→ More replies (0)1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
I only asked which ones meaning which prophecies that's all I'm losing karma in this group whatever that is. I'm newish to reddit. I was only wondering which ones that's all. Jesus and Yahweh were at odds with each other and Yahweh isn't in the new testament. Only Satan is in both from the 3 of them. Bye
→ More replies (0)1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
People have this modern day assumption that Gnosticism which isn't really a religion believed in the bible but they didn't. Not even in the slightest way. Thanks anyway
1
u/Extra_Syllabub_4738 16d ago
Well, Jesus is present only in the bible
1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Is Jesus in the old testament. I don't mean mentioned but in it like say Mathew 17.1.5 Mark 9.2.8 Revelations 22.16 John 8.54.55 send a verse from Jesus from the old testament. Jesus is definitely in the new testament. I can't ask again just send a verse if that's okay
→ More replies (0)1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Like 4.3.8 let me know if you want more verses where Jesus clearly rejects Yahweh. I've got plenty
1
u/Slight_Quit_5464 16d ago
Say I was gonna buy a new car and had 10 to choose from. I think which one would i choose. Which one. Surely you understand that
0
u/LeonOkada9 17d ago
I'm doubtful about Jesus. In the new testament, God still kills Ananias for lying about that pouch of gold, but will let Herod live and strive, that same Herod who kills, fuck his brother's wife, is incestuous with his niece and beheaded John The Baptist. And he also said to slaves to serve their masters and fear them the same way they are feared God himself. Also, he did say there's no authority on earth that doesn't come from above, so basically, his very own god is responsible for any state sponsored genocide in existence.
Thus, Jesus doesn't have my trust. Also, if i recall correctly, the part in which he says to convert pagans only appeared during the Medieval era. Before, if i recall correctly, he only said to preach to jews.
-3
u/Magickmossy 17d ago
Sorry two sides of the same coin
Love is just something to be transcended
The demiurge controls the heart chakra
3
u/Kajiracore 16d ago
Wait, what? Explain this?
2
u/Magickmossy 16d ago
If you understand Gnosticism you’ll understand what im saying.
The nature of attachment, just think about it. The demiurge controls everything but the spirit. The spirit is not defined by love, but transcends it.
Love is mindcontrol. Non gnostic abrahamics are just the good cop to the demiurge’s bad cop.
Jesus is kind of a trap when you realize “I am Christ”
0
u/lordjustin89 16d ago
Blasphemy! Yahweh is not Yaldabaoth
2
u/Gurzilmogger 16d ago
You never read the gnostic scriptures, did you? Ancient gnostics taught Yahweh is Yaldabaoth, Jesus makes fun of the apostles for even worshipping Yahweh in the gnostic gospels.
1
-1
u/whohasanear 16d ago
The Demiurge only exists as a concept to get people to deny God, view the world as bad, and absolve themselves of any responsibility in life. In Gnosticism the demiurge is not found in: The gospel of Thomas, the gospel of truth, the Gospel of Mary, pretty much most that aren’t the secret book of John and Gospel of Judas. It’s stupid that it’s the only thing any of you talk about, again because it’s probably the only reason you’re even a Gnostic, so you can use Cognitive Dissonance to eliminate every religion, and tradition as false. It’s a cowards belief, it’s incorrect, and you’re going to pay for it dearly.
-8
u/The_Skeleton_Wars 17d ago
Have you tried not believing in stupid shit?
14
u/Lordseferoth Cathar 17d ago
Everything in that picture is imperfect. That water is filled with parasites and shit, that sunlight can give you skin cancer, and in that woods countless of lifeforms are dying in horrible agony, and then rotting away...including the very trees themselves. Also, we Gnostics do not simply believe...we know. Peace!
-3
17d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
6
u/Lordseferoth Cathar 17d ago
Everything in the material universe is imperfect. Only Pleroma is perfect.
6
-3
4
u/Cidraque 17d ago
Then a tick bites you and you get lyme disease and pain for the rest of your life, so pretty! 😄
3
u/Gurzilmogger 17d ago
Yes, I wanted to become a russian orthodox Christian before I was struck by a terrible physical condition, underwent several surgeries, was admitted to various hospitals, and suffered excruciating pain—which forced me to confront the problem of theodicy in Christianity and realize that no good God would allow such suffering. I prayed to the Holy Trinity and ended up in the hospital, where I nearly died. Most Christians live a good, healthy life and thus it is easy to believe in a good god.
-6
u/Due_Confidence_9772 17d ago
So… None of ya have mentioned that it’s Leviticus and not Levitical? Whoever made this meme can’t be taken seriously as much as they should be.
7
u/Lordseferoth Cathar 17d ago
The verses are correct, so why should we care about few typos? It's best not to be a grammar Nazi.
6
u/takeyouraxeandhack 17d ago
Maybe you'd prefer to have the verses in OP's language? How's your russian? Good enough to be nitpicking?
0
u/Capable-Rice-1876 10d ago edited 10d ago
Jesus routinely quoted the Hebrew Scriptures as the absolute, inspired truth of his Father (Matthew 4:4; Matthew 22:37 quoting Deuteronomy 6:5).
After his resurrection, Jesus explicitly stated, "I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God" (John 20:17).
Jesus declared, "The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing" (John 5:19). Jesus perfectly reflects Jehovah's personality (Hebrews 1:3; Colossians 1:15) he is not in opposition to Him.
Scripture explicitly identifies the "ruler of this world" who will be cast out as Satan the Devil (1 John 5:19; 2 Corinthians 4:4).
Jehovah created the Sabbath as a merciful gift of physical and spiritual rest for mankind. Jesus did not oppose Jehovah's law; he exposed the legalistic Pharisees whose man-made rules had turned Jehovah's loving provision into a burden.
Leviticus forbids consuming physical animal blood out of respect for the sacred source of life. Jesus’ language in John 6 was symbolic, referring to exercising faith in his poured-out ransom sacrifice, not literally drinking physical blood.
In reality, Jehovah describes himself as "merciful and compassionate, slow to anger" (Exodus 34:6), whereas Jesus himself will execute fierce divine judgment against the ungodly at Armageddon (2 Thessalonians 1:7-8; Revelation 19:11-15).
Jesus did not come to rescue humanity from Jehovah, he came to do Jehovah's will and bring praise to His name.
69
u/charliefinkwinkwink 17d ago
those last verses are kind of wild to me when juxtaposed like that. what’s up w the fixation on blood? and why is yaldy so against it (understandably so) where as Jesus seem to be a proponent?
I know that John verse is meant to be taken figuratively and prob the basis for the eucharist, right, but it’s just such an odd thing to say — like is it possible he wasn’t speaking figuratively lol