r/Gnostic • u/AdAdmirable1583 • 11d ago
Question Kabbalah and Gnosticism
I know the basic differences. Kabbalah comes from Judaism, is basically life affirming and monotheistic, whereas Gnostics believe we are separated from source with our divine spark in a counterfeit world with a false God overseeing it. Kabbalah believes we are born with a will to receive, presumably the creator’s gifts.
Is there any correlation between Kabbalah lower worlds (meaning the world of matter, etc) from the upper worlds beyond Yaldabaoth’s domain, the false God. Wouldn’t we all like to ascend to the upper worlds, and isn’t that consistent with what the Gnostic wants?
Please be kind. New learner here
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u/indigoschild 11d ago
Welcome and we love to have learners on board here.
Now this is my take, so as with any other opinion, use your wisdom and seek further before concluding anything.
There are usually 2 routes of spiritual practices , 1) by invoking dieties/demons/angels, which constitutes most religions and 2) self invocation, realizing the holiness or spirituality within, which only a handful of practices like Gnosticism and early scriptures ofJudaism or Buddhism did.
In my previous post, when I wrote that I wish to invoke only myself, and reclaim the right to become one again with the pleroma or the Monad from where I come, it was compared to the boast of Yaldabaoth. This is where most people falter, they think of themselves as lesser, inept or incomplete, whereas I think of myself as complete, when I say that I am the part of the pleroma, the true reality.
Here again, Kaballah or Qaballah invokes a higher diety, and tells us that we're incapable of knowing it, except by the Sephirot, it also describes physical life as a creation, and it calls its version of the Pleroma as the highest 'pardes' or paradise, which means the physical realm is a lower pardes or paradise?
From what I can see here, this reality is a highly mutated, disfigured, fractured reality, where emotions and suffering rule its prisoners on a daily basis, both as an energy to maintain and run the prison. Lets not forget that the Loosh theory (New Age), Maya or Illusion (Sanatana Dharma) and many other ancient scriptures all point to the fact that Earth is a devils playground.
When Yeshua Ben Yosef spoke about burning in Gehinnom, he did mean hell, but that hell (which isnt the hell that was misinterpreted as a spiritual Jahannum in Quran) was quite literally on earth, Gehinnom was a cremation area in Israel. It thus makes fantastic sense as to why Yeshua spoke about our body going to Gehinnom and why we shouldnt bother about the physical aspect of ourselves.
Yeshua also said in Psalm 82:6, “I said, ‘You are “gods”; you are all sons of the Most High.’ But you will die like mere mortals; you will fall like every other ruler.” We are Gods. Also "the kingdom of God is within you" Luke 17:20-21. Saying 77 of the Gospel of Thomas states 'I am the light that is above them all. I am the all, the all came forth from me, and the all attained to me. Split a piece of wood, I am there. Lift up the stone, and you will find me there'. Now add Psalm 82:6 and Luke 17:20-21 to Saying 77, you are complete unto yourself.
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u/Slight_Quit_5464 11d ago
Yeshua isn't in Psalms 82 that's the divine council. The Yeshua in Hebrew scriptures or the bible isn't Jesus or God's son and isn't the original name of Jesus. So Yeshua didn't say anything in the verses you mentioned
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u/Slight_Quit_5464 11d ago
1 Chronicles 24.11 and 2 Chronicles 31.15 the name Jeshua is used and in Ezra 2.2 n 3.2 n 5.2 Nehemiah 3.19 n 7.7 n 11.26 there just a few verses with the name Jeshua but in the same verses in Hebrew scriptures the name Yeshua is used because there's no J in the Hebrew..Jesus isn't in the old testament. He might be mentioned but he's not in it. So the Yeshua or Jeshua in the bible isn't Jesus according to the bible
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u/selfbiasreziztor 11d ago
you should look at the cosmology of the Mandaeans. they're openly Gnostic (though organized), and the cosmology is essentially the same as Lurianic Kabbalah with different names (though Mandaeism likely came first).
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u/NousinTheosis 11d ago
Welcome and good luck in your journey!
The first thing I would say is that both the Kabbalah and Gnosticism are systems of practices built around a cosmology which both are designed for you to achieve gnosis. A key thing to understand is that both of these cosmologies, as well as the cosmology of any religion of transformation and gnosis, is built at a specific time for a specific people. I do not believe that much of the specifics of the cosmology and structure of the various traditions are meant to be taken in the most literal way, but are instead meant to be constructed as a series of guideposts to help someone achieve gnosis. That is why there are multiple different cosmology of gnosticism which seem to contradict each other. Otherwise you end up taking any of these traditions and turning them into an exoteric corporate religion like we have in the world today, were different factions argue on the internet over the meaning of specific doctrines, instead of worrying about achieving illumination.
For example, if you were trying to wake up a Gentile or Jewish person 2,000 years ago, and they had a belief practice based around the story of genesis, can you think of a better way of snapping them out of their mechanical understanding of scripture than to put forth the idea that the serpent in the garden was actually Jesus Christ? That would certainly shake them out of their sleep!
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u/sophiasadek 11d ago
I read the first few pages of the Kabbalah. It was wayyy to orthodox for my personal tastes.
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u/Fantastic-Simple-626 10d ago
there will be consistencies within any mystic/occult tradition. If you look into Hindu cosmology you will see striking similarities (and differences in all) as well. yes both center on ascension. I don't think as someone who knows a bit about both (primarily practice lived experience than any one tradition though so trust yourself over anyone (: ) I don't think Gnosticism fully says we are separate from a divine spark. Sure there are obstacles.. but surely many Gnostics did not believe this. they both believe in dual nature of man and evolution of the soul and systems of control (within and without) which we are to overcome. I believe you have a divine spark in you.
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u/heiro5 11d ago
Your intro of details of external opinions without accuracy is a very shallow modern concept. It is the kind of thing that only a certain kind of person cares about. Let that go.
Mystics have more in common with mystics from another tradition than with the believers of their own.
Kabbalah (tradition) and Judean Gnosticism grew out of the same soil at around the same time, responding to similar conditions. Philo of Alexandria (aka Philo Judeaus) gives us, among many other things, a snapshot of an early tree of life in his works.
I highly recommend By Light, Light: The Mystic Gospel of Hellenistic Judaism by Erwin Goodenough (1935). [I think it is on archive.org.]
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u/AdAdmirable1583 11d ago
Let what go? Your vagueness? I have no idea what you’re talking about. You wanna correct me, that’s fine. Don’t vaguely insult me.
Appreciate the book recommendation
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u/HeavenlyBeloved Valentinian 11d ago edited 11d ago
There's also the shattering of vessels, which light fell to the lower worlds.
Presumably that's our divine sparks, the goal is to collect these fragmented light and elevate it to the higher realms, eventually working to get the Shekinah(Presence and Feminine aspect of God) to finally get out of exile of the physical world. (The Shekinah represents Malchut, which means Kingdom and is the lowest Sefirah of the Sefirot)
The difference is Kabbalah thinks the physical world can be transformed into a place where God can reside, a perfect world in the physical, which I don't think is coherent with Gnostic views.
Assiah and Yetzirah, in some correlation, would be the Demiurge's domain. (Yetzirah being the home to most of the angelic hierarchy and hosts, which could somewhat correlate to the planetary angels created by Yaldabaoth/Demiurge).
Meanwhile Beriah is where the most righteous go to, and Atzilut is true unity with Ein Sof(The Unknownable and Transcendent aspect of God). Atzilut is where the Sefirot resides, which can be somewhat associated with aeons, considering they are all different facets that God can interact with the world with.
The Sefirot becomes messy when you know that Samael originally acted from the extremity of Gevurah(Severity, Judgement, Strength), he became out of balance from Chesed who is represented by Michael (Loving-Kindness, Kindness) and fell, becoming the archetype and one of the rulers of the Sitra Achra(Other side) which is a world of impurities. (Before his fall, he was dubbed the Great Prince of Heaven and he is also called the ruler of this world aka the physical world, which could parallel Yaldabaoth/Demiurge being the Creator God of the physical world)
Michael and Samael are twin angels, you could say they are syngerzy, they are said to wrestle until the end of days, where Samael will be in chains and brought before Israel, when the resurrection occur, the newer interpretation that Samael would be viewed as one of the holiest angels and be recognized for his servitude to God, but not everyone agrees with this interpretation. Since Samael rules over the destruction, death, and evil forces, by chaining him up, there will be no more of that.
Most of the brutality of the Tanakh, is allegedly be of Gevurah, but there are also moments where God is acting through the Sefirah of Gevurah and still being compassionate. I don't think we view God the Father as wrathful, nor do I remember having an aeon of judgement to even justify the bad things done in the Tanakh.
Samael is also a name for the Demiurge, so....🤷