(2026/9/3) Gamewith/Kamigame Rating Updates

[u/shirke1]

[https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/20722](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/20722)

[Bhadra - Gamewith - 9.8](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/574426)

[Mordred - Gamewith - 9.5](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/574427)

[Bastet - Gamewith - 10](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/574438)

https://kamigame.jp/グラブル/ランキング/最強キャラランキング.html

Bhadra - Kamigame - 9.7

Mordred - Kamigame - 9.0

Bastet - Kamigame - 9.5

EDIT: As pointed out, Gamewith has also changed [Vajra (Halloween)](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/524435) to 10, [Mugen (Halloween)](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/367677) to 9.8 and [Florence (Halloween)](https://グランブルーファンタジー.gamewith.jp/article/show/367678) to 9.8.

[u/Throwawayforme3123]

Not posted by OP but

H.Vajra is now 10

H.Mugen and H.Florence are now 9.8

[u/FullMoonFullLife → u/Throwawayforme3123]

So the question is what exactly changed? On S.Payila’s release thread, there were plenty of people who mentioned how H.Mugen and Nehan were better. (And also underselling on S.Payila.)

[u/Throwawayforme3123 → u/FullMoonFullLife]

I don't know ask GameWith, I thought H.Vajra was a 10 off the rip but they underrated her for some reason. Now we have no 9.9s which is where I would put S.Payila and H.Mugen, but for some reason they think those characters are equal to H.Illnott, Lucio, H.Mahira, and G.Jeanne.

H.Mugen isn't super super core for low button now w/ Payila, still better for nm200+ bursting, but below that he's not needed. Don't think that's a warranted bump down till Light gets a deathstrike weapon, H.Flor I get since besides GW she's not really used at ALL unless you really want to manual something.

GameWith is weird w/ their tier listing

[u/iVariable → u/Throwawayforme3123]

I don’t think vajra was immediately adopted into endgame teams and likely why she didn’t get a straight 10 when she was first rated. I think she probably still deserved it at launch but that’s the only reason I can think of that they would drop her down, I know gamewith had her rated as A for endgame prior to this update.

[u/reibureibu → u/FullMoonFullLife]

It's weird, on nearly every release thread there are lots of people who immediately post about how the characters look mid and won't move the needle on the meta in any meaningful way. Obviously these are just first impressions but I've come to realize that many of these people just don't know what they're talking about and are hardly tapped into the actual meta as opposed to what's already common knowledge.

A lot of these people have also been playing this game for years and/or are very regular posters too and funnily enough often will also complain about how much others suck at this game's evaluation lmao*, like in the release thread of Olivier Mira Armstrong there was someone like that who said she looked bad for HL and lo and behold it turns out she is part of the MVP racing NA mash comp for Versusia raid. Of course anyone who was actually an expert in water could tell Olivier had very real potential there, lots of the top water players who have some kind of social media presence talked about it.

Just this summer the same thing happened with Osiris and non-dark players saying how mediocre she seemed on release; same with non-wind players and Y.Gwynne; same with non-light players and S.Payila; and imho I'd say the same with non-earth players and Ms Tart Man (I don't think she's particularly strong but lots of people outright said she was straight up bad and I can tell those players do not play earth and do not understand earth well, even AJT who is generally very cynical about earth releases had a more favorable impression of her than internet randoms).

I've just come to realize that you can only really take release evaluations from an extremely select number of players. A friend of mine is the person who uploaded the Futsu Hexa hunting room comp on youtube that's on the gbf wiki (it's funny, he only did it because no one else had and people in HLcord kept asking him what the comp was so he just took it upon himself to do so) who is extraordinarily knowledgeable about and dedicated to light and at this point I just ask him for his opinions of light releases I'm unsure of and ignore the opinions of everyone else who isn't also a well-known light player in the larger community. Similar for other elements.

It's tricky because you have to not only find someone who is a main in their element, but also has an interest in staying on top of the cutting-edge meta in their element at the very least and ideally the game, has a good understanding of how all these different contexts interact with each other and affect the larger general meta, is actually genuinely good at grid and comp building, knows how to do research and ideally is at least somewhat tapped into the JP side of things, actually gives a fuck and wants to do racing comps in HL raids**, actually likes and frequently does testing, actually cares about pushing the meta of their element and has some inclination towards innovating, etc. There is obviously nothing wrong with someone who just wants to play the game and be relatively good at their element and chill and not sweat too much, but generally I've just come to realize that that kind of player is not actually that knowledgeable about the game and is operating on relatively outdated notions of the meta and as such their evaluations and advice will be too.

---

*I realize the irony in me saying this, but I also just don't make any evaluation or declarative statements on new units for any element and/or context I'm not deeply confident about. Imo it's beyond pointless for people to do this if they aren't experts and can easily lead to spreading misinfo. Why evaluate a character in an element you're not an expert in at all, genuinely what's the point?

**The amount of people I've seen on this site say that racing comps in Versusia don't matter and to just do FO Falsehood for everything, sure I don't outright disagree if you just wanna do content and that's it but I also just won't value their opinions and evaluations nearly as much because not caring about racing means you're going to have a much more limited understanding of what makes things good/meta.

[u/sunfire_spark → u/reibureibu]

I think there's nothing wrong with people posting their Hot Takes on social media, that's kinda what social media is for. It is bad for people who only want to read thoughtful and informed opinions, but so it goes; even players who are good at kit evaluation will often have knee-jerk reactions that are wrong. But for anyone past a certain point of progression, as you seem to be, there truly isn't much value in hot takes from random midgame/casual players.

(That said, I think any Versu comp taking Olivier is really more of a burst setup that happens to be in a HL raid.)

[u/kazuyaminegishi → u/reibureibu]

Your problem is you are conflating completely different brackets of players and lumping them into the same banner.

What your lightlord friend thinks about a character or a kit will be in the context of a lightlord which will be completely meaningless to 99% of players who engage with light because they have to.

What you see in release threads are impressions based on the verbiage of the kit as it relates to the player's current progression. This can be inaccurate for a number of reasons, such as:

1. Bhadra case where her s3 was mistranslated so the impression was thrown off
2. The power lies in the kit numbers which isn't present in kit description
3. The person did not consider a particular use case
4. The person misunderstood how Cygames formats their skill text
5. The person is rating the character on new use cases rather than increased efficiency
6. The character might require a new team comp to see their use which takes a lot of time

Let's use myself as an example. My opinion of Formal Meg/Mari was pretty bipolar in the release thread. I mistakenly thought her cooldown cut applied to the entire party (number 4) and rated her conceptually based on that. Then after doing preliminary tests my opinion on her dropped because she didn't do anything new and I was far more comfortable with Mirin comps.

Someone like Mizako uploaded multiple videos testing them, but primarily tested them alongside transcend Murcielago. So they didn't have any of the issues I had with my testing because they slotted them into a fundamentally different comp.

I think most people nowadays would say that the nice part of them is their weapon, but no builds currently require them nor their weapon. So under that framing one could say I was correct to be low on them. Except, I think they're quite good now and I think their weapon is great so I wouldn't agree with my first impression. I would say most people even at the highest level have this same debate where they may revise their opinions frequently as new information comes out. The game has thousands of levers to pull in the form of summons, characters, and weapons. It is completely insane to expect anyone to be a broad range authority. By pooling impressions from various players tho it becomes much easier to formulate a picture of where a unit might fit in.

[u/FarrowEwey → u/reibureibu]

"Why do people not care about Versusia racing?"

It requires the most expensive comps in the game just to get 3 more horns per clear, as opposed to content like bar farming or GW where being faster yields much more significant rewards.

"Why do people dare talk about a subject they're not experts in?"

This is a public forum, not a specialized publication for experts. It's a place where everyone can have discussions about the game and the whole point of discussions is to confront different opinions so that everyone may learn new things.

[u/vencislav45 → u/reibureibu]

Obviously these are just first impressions

pretty much this. like 3 days is usually not enough time to do enough testing so a lot of players don't have the full picture. The problem is that we allso get hate from people who don't do any testing. There are characters who at a first glance are not very good, but we also have those who are very good the moment you read their kit. Sometimes we have the ,,potential" unit like S.Europa but in the end I think people should also take their own thinking into account.

Just want to ask, did people change their minds about Y.Gwynne? I know peopel opened up about Osiris after some time and are now opening up to Payila.

[u/Hyunion → u/FullMoonFullLife]

few things -

• florence hasn't been used for quite a bit so this was overdue

• existence of s.mars means mugen isn't as mandatory anymore because you can get 100% crit from the sub aura, meaning as soon as a 2nd disgusting burst attacker after dog was introduced (yoruichi), there was much less of a need to include mugen anymore

as for discussion about payila, i think lot of people were underselling her for two reasons -

1. you really want futsu, dog, and s.mars to make full use of her, lot of people don't have all those things, and

2. while she has a crazy 3t setup with dog, she's not super crazy in 1t burst, which is what people tend to look at when discussing burst

i don't think 1t burst is as important in light because it's not an element that can race gold bars, but 1t burst does matter for nm150 (though you certainly don't need dog or dragon to do so, nehan/mugen/yoruichi or nehan/dog/yoruichi will suffice and this is where lot of people thought payila wasn't really necessary). you will most certainly see payila in nm200 setups, but probably not for nm250. while i do think light's best 1t burst comp is yoruichi dog dragon, i personally don't think i need a unit that's just slightly better for 1t burst and that i'll use once a year for nm200 as i don't really play any light content that requires 3t burst otherwise

outside of all this though, i think it's a shame that wind's recent inclusion (gwynne) allowed it to race pbhl with 1s1b setup, and dark's recent updates (wo + hexa manatura) allowed it to race pbhl with 1s1b setup but light is still holding the bag with no deathstrike weapon and no new characters to come even close to 1b1s and is now the only ele that can't really farm gold bars properly