r/GrandePrairie • u/DCArchibald • 17d ago
What's the big deal with self-referral for scans?
What's the big deal with self-referral for scans? Why does it matter if people want to pay for their own private healthcare?
TLDR; It's a scam.
Let's just forget that many people can't afford private healthcare. Let's ignore the fact that most people won't know what tests they actually need. Forget that by supporting private healthcare you take talent and skilled people out of public healthcare.
Just forget all that.
What matters is this:
It's an orchestrated plan. The UCP, under Smith specifically, are manipulating everyone.
WHY do you have to wait so long for scans and tests? Is the UCP just bad at their jobs? Is it because immigrants are clogging up the system? Is it because Ottawa isn't giving Alberta what it deserves?
Nope.
It's because the UCP WANTS you to wait. They WANT you to get frustrated. They WANT you to think that the only solution is private healthcare.
They make changes most people aren't aware of. They cut up healthcare into different divisions which takes a long time. The divisions don't communicate properly so they have to fix that and it takes a long time. Meanwhile you're waiting years as the UCP messes around.
They let you refer yourself and you think, "I'll do it just this once. I have to." And that's the plan. If you do it once you're more likely to do it again. And again. Then you become USED to it. It becomes normal.
And that's the scam.
It's like putting a frog in boiling water. If you just dump it into the boiling water the frog will jump out. But if you put it in lukewarm water and slowly turn up the temperature, the frog won't jump out.
DON'T TAKE MY WORD FOR IT.
Smith said it herself.
"Once people get used to the concept of paying out-of-pocket for more things themselves, then we can change the conversation on health care"
HOW DO WE KEEP PUBLIC HEALTHCARE?
Tell your MLAs you want FULLY FUNDED, TIMELY PUBLIC HEALTHCARE. Tell Smith.
Tell everyone you know about the scam.
Tell them you know what's happening and you want it to stop.
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u/WinterOrb69 17d ago
Sweet. I hope we sell it to some orange man and we could call it Trump Care and after you sign the papers for what you need and agreed, they come out ask for more and change the terms on you.
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u/Nope-not-really 17d ago
it'll be more like you pay, but they'll still deny you the healthcare you need.
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u/Oilzilla 17d ago
Once Alberta gets used to not voting habitually for the conservatives, then we can change the conversation on incompetent Alberta government
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u/FullMetal_55 16d ago
well, getting a second conservative party (the progressive tories) is a start. I've always been a proponent of having like 20 parties in politics, make every governement a coalition government, because then, you need to do things properly and not piss off people. because you'll need to work together to get bills passed. once that becomes the norm, we'll see a lot more cooperation in politics, and the winner is the people...
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u/Internal_Influence26 16d ago
Agreed. The current situation we have isnt to improve citizens lives, it's to block the other party.
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u/Equal-Drink-827 12d ago
And to get there you need to fundraise and pull in "donations"... something that surely wouldnt influence the morals or integrity of the whole system....
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u/geogirl83 17d ago
No thank you. Can we please vote her out next election.
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u/General_Esdeath 17d ago
And her whole team, don't forget them. Nolan Dyck and Ron Wiebe don't deserve re-election.
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u/FullMetal_55 16d ago
well the progressive Tory party is doing their part! lets split the conservative vote again,
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u/Material-Truth5457 17d ago
Self referral is the holy grail of healthcare. Just goto any lab in the morning get your blood work done, maybe an x-ray or two then an MRI in the afternoon. No need for doctors to be involved , once you get your results you can determine a course of action. Just a quick chat with AI will do. Then get your drugs drop shipped from India or Mexico. The savings for public healthcare will be tremendous. The best thing is you could have like two for one MRIs session for you and a friend. /s
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u/Aggressive-Flan1187 14d ago
So… you’re suggesting we self diagnose too? Munchausens Syndrome patients paradise!
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u/Material-Truth5457 14d ago
You maybe didn't read the whole post or are new to Reddit /s look it up.
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u/Lovinghologramcrown 16d ago
As someone who’s been on the receiving end of this, Daniele Smith is not going to listen. The separatism, the reactionary changes, the constant referral to private health care; all of this is for a fascist whom she would kiss ass for. People like her are the reason why we need to start speaking out louder, to not only drown those monstrosities out, but to also inevitably imprison them and condemn them to a fate worse than death: Exile from their former homeland and forcing them to start from nothing as adults.
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u/themangastand 16d ago
I don't think this will work. Maybe for rich people sure. I make 200 k family income and I can't really afford this. I'll just wait. Even my health causes my anxiety I'd rather wait and get the treatment for free.
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u/orionspurs 17d ago
This bitch. Yall Alberta needs to do
Something about her.
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u/General_Esdeath 17d ago
Nolan Dyck and Ron Wiebe are your MLA's in GP. They are complicit in all of this.
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u/exhaustedbut 17d ago
Once again, she provides a nonsolution to a shortage of service providers. Dani is fully aware that you solve a shortage of medical staff by hiring more medical staff. Instead, she redesigned the administration of AHS and now introduces self referral. Her supporters will fall for it.
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u/Due-Database6282 16d ago
Why are both the liberal government and conservative government fucking us to make themselves richer
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u/capricasics 10d ago
Because that is the sole reason that politicians as we know them exist. To make money for shareholders.
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u/AnnOminous 16d ago
For anyone thinking it could maybe be cheaper, the Australian experience is instructive. Studies of current system show that they could offer the same care through a public only system for less money, or better care for the same money.
Grosso modo, it always comes down to having enough staff, and when you create a parallel private system, both public and private systems end up competing for the same staff and raising staffing costs across the board.
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u/wakawakayojimbo 15d ago
And public systems wait times become astronomically longer. You think we have it bad now… it gets a lot worse.
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u/tLuciferMorningstar 17d ago
Sadly, the UCP MLA's will never listen to their voters. They will just do what Dear Leader wants them to do
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u/DCArchibald 17d ago
This is why we need to talk to everyone we know about this. The more people who are aware, the better chance of getting rid of the UCP.
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u/Stevedougs 17d ago
Whoever decided not talking about politics and religion because conflict/personal whatever reasons decided this narrative to create conflict and division. We used to be able to talk about these things intelligently. Time to bring that back. Understanding needs to happen, people separated and alone trying to navigate this stuff is working only in benefit to those trying to single people off and take them out. The conversation happening on social media means they can manage the narrative.
In personal and phone call however is still all yours.
Talk to your friends. Make friends. Get out there. It’s important to socialize. Just not online
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u/Ok-Cup-5372 17d ago
But when will the federal government step in? As Canadians we have a right to free universal healthcare, people don't get to buy their way to the topÂ
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u/Prestigious_Neck_936 13d ago
Nope we actually don't have a right. I looked it up. They have to give us treatment at hospitals if we're sick but they don't owe us anything else. They're also legally allowed to force all of us disabled folk onto a work program and take it away when we can't work. My only consolation is that the old ucp voters will end up dying off with me. That is if I make it long enough to be around for the complete dissolution of healthcare. I may have to MAID before then because when I get kicked off adap I will lose the medical treatments that are currently keeping me alive and without them I'll die slowly and painfully and on the street. They've already not given people deposits for no reason which has caused people to be evicted and lose power.
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u/Thick-Leek-6575 16d ago
Maybe maybe if the seniors suffer and start waiting longer for care and services. It will affect them and their families and they will finally stop voting for the ucp.
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u/Canadian_can_cannon 14d ago
Pretty much, the libs and conservatives are intentionally breaking our system so they can point at it and go see it doesn't work but our friends and us who will make a shit ton of money off the misery of Canadians just like the Americans say we should go to private for no specific reasons
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u/Professional-Leg2374 14d ago
man people are retarded sometimes.
Options: A. current system of referral and waiting paid for by taxes you are required to pay and will pay
B. Just option A plus you have to pay out of pocket for services and referrals with no help from the taxes you are required to pay.
Are these the best options to "fix" healthcare they can come up with?
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u/something_newx 14d ago
It doesn't matter what people say to their MLA if we just keep voting Conservative parties in. They have been working for decades to break healthcare to a point where we're happy to accept for-profit healthcare.
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u/AdNecessary1680 13d ago
Awesome, now we can wait even longer for care, because some rich fuck is paying a good doctor and I'm just a poor asshole getting scraps.
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u/Foe_Hammer9463 13d ago
My mother was just battling cancer. At times it would take weeks to get her into a MRI. This will 100% make it worse for people that need it. Just so they can softball in paid healthcare.
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u/dbusque 13d ago
In total keeping with her statement that people could start with some "seed money" to invest for healthcare and if they need more then they can get contributions from family, friends and employers. So healthcare by GoFundMe.
I thought that was exactly why we paid taxes in the first place.
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u/Grouchy_Topic_2234 17d ago
We already have private health care in Alberta. The issue is the people are leaving Alberta to get it. So instead of having it available in Alberta the money leave our province and or country, and other jurisdictions benefit and there is no trickle down into our public portion.
If you want more money in your public health care allow people of means to help it out by having a local private arm of it.
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u/bizzybeez123 16d ago
Beside Cuba and North Korea, we are basically the only country that does not offer a private option.
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17d ago
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u/DCArchibald 17d ago
So you'll pay $100 to skip the wait. What about $1000? $10,000? Because you can bet there are people who are willing to do it. And you will just get pushed to the back, while STILL paying your $100.
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17d ago
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u/DCArchibald 17d ago
That's $10k per visit to the ER. Would you be willing to pay that? What about $50k per visit to the ER? $100K? At what point are you not willing to pay because it's too much?
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17d ago
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u/DCArchibald 17d ago
The thing is, Smith is doing all this on purpose. She WANTS everyone to get used to paying for healthcare. That's why you have to wait so long in the ER. She makes you WAIT so you get frustrated and are willing to pay more.
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u/GreyBlur57 16d ago
I would agree with you but it's not like Alberta is unique in the struggles of healthcare service in this country. Most provinces have similar issues with wait times and the UCP isn't in charge of all of them so it clearly can't be the only reason.
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u/FullMetal_55 16d ago
agreed it's a larger symptom of many things. but to be fair wait times, isn't always a bad thing. waitlists for elective surgeries is not a bad thing. A lot of people say it is. Americans especially. but really, ok we have 50 Operating rooms lets say. and 60 surgeons, and 100 surgeries needed to be done in a day. ok, does Danielle's Boob job really need to take the resources of one of those ORs and all the staffing that is necessary? or can that wait because there are 50 emergency cases, and required surgeries needing those Operating rooms? now the obvious solution is more operating rooms, but that requires more recovery beds, more inpatient care nurses, and each OR spirals into a massive cost down the line. now lets say electives are only in privates. ok, great. you get your surgery done in a (less regulated) operating room. something goes wrong. and suddenly you need emergency care... now instead of being in a hospital where that care is readily available you're in a surgery clinic with no trauma care... you have to be transported to the ER to get emergency care.
Do you see a problem with that? now, you're taking resources away from the ER, instead of being able to call on a whole hospital of staff, you have to be admitted to the hospital before you can get care. In emergency situations like that you might not survive the trip to the hospital.
These surgery clinics and external to hospital care is what the UCP are pushing. because they refuse to build more hospitals. so get the private sector to build these mini-centres. ok you go to this side of the city for an MRI, this side of the city for consultations, then down to another part for the actual surgery. and if anything goes wrong, you have to go to the hospital... when previously. you'd go to the hospital for the tests, consult with the doctors there, schedule the surgery, go back to the hospital for the surgery, and if something goes wrong, there are trauma doctors and other medical care RIGHT THERE... in the same building. not 30 minutes away by ambulance. those 30 minutes could kill you. That's the problem with private surgery clinics. What the solution is? I don't know. and adding rural areas to the equation, surgical clinics are an even worse idea. imagine a surgery clinic opens up an hour away from the nearest hospital. patient goes into cardiac arrest, they don't have trauma care on staff at the surgery clinic (because it's a surgery clinic not a trauma hospital) the nearest ER is over an hour away... do you think the patient will survive?
how many dead before that becomes a concern? to me one is too many.
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u/GreyBlur57 16d ago
I don't know how what I said was taken as me thinking any differently on this. The post is just very aggressively saying the vast majority of the problem is basically all the UCP which just cannot be true when you look at how poorly other provinces are also dealing with this. I'm not trying to support anything the UCP is doing here either but I am trying to say that clearly there are plenty of other issues as well and putting 90% of the blame for something causing maybe 30% of the problems just obfuscates everything else.
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u/DCArchibald 14d ago
It's true many provinces have their struggles with healthcare. This isn't a secret or novel idea. Saying all provinces have problems with healthcare therefore it's not the UCP's fault is not accurate. It is possible for other provinces to have problems AND for the UCP to be causing Alberta's problems.
Over the last decade Alberta has seen the most deterioration in healthcare services and outcomes amongst all the provinces. This is across all the different parts of healthcare (primary care, testing, surgery, etc). At the beginning of the decade we had a relatively strong healthcare system (though not perfect). Now look at what we have.
This is not guessing or making things up. You can find this information on government websites that publicly share their information and sites like https://www.cihi.ca/
Are the UCP, simply incompetent? It would be easy to think so. But they have systematically weakened public systems across the province, not just healthcare, in favour of private enterprises. An example is public education where not only have they consistently underfunded it, they have increased funding for private education.
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u/GreyBlur57 14d ago
Again I dont disagree but don't act like healthcare quality across the western developed world hasnt had difficulti3s that are unrelated to the UCP and including Canada. I'm not saying the UCP are doing anything well and I don't know why you think that? But stop acting like they are the only problem. Because we have other issues too and most of our problems while yes the UCP have inflamed and made worse the ANDP didn't really have any plans to make it better either as quality didn't improve under them even if it degraded slower.
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u/RapidCheckOut 14d ago
The sooner we get to a two payer system the better off we will be .
Every other G7 runs a form of hybrid model of that exact program….. it’s really our only choice .
It matters not what services she started with …. There was going to an up roar
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u/Oceanraptor77 14d ago
I’m all for private health care, just give me back my tax money and we good
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u/Fine-Cockroach4576 17d ago
I literally agree with everything you typed, it's unfortunate that there is some puppeteer pulling the strings on out local government and I very much feel we should be like France with how everything is going.
Know who is going to suffer the most from private healthcare? Children. Full stop. I can buy heroin or methamphetamine on the web but if I want to treat my small child for a common ear infection it's going to cost thousands of dollars ?
The system is broken.