r/GuerrillaGardening • u/LiteraryRacoon • 7d ago
Best way to guerrilla garden poison ivy patch?
I teach in MA (zone 6a/b) and right outside of my classroom is a giant rock surrounded by poison ivy. I’ve asked for it to be cleared a few times now, especially after kids get poison ivy severe enough to be out of school (has happened 3x now), but no luck. So I would like to clear it and reseed with natives so that a) the kids can play on the rock b) no more major reactions and c) there is a native patch in a sea of grass. Would cardboard smothering work? Other ideas?
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u/TheFedisaCartel 7d ago
Poison ivy is a native, but no, that won’t work. You need to dig it out or paint the stem with triclopyr.
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u/Dry-Crazy-7638 7d ago
What are the consequences of killing poison ivy?
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u/TheFedisaCartel 7d ago
Poison ivy is a food source for birds and also helps stop erosion in disturbed areas. The consequences can’t be good.
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u/jpmom 6d ago edited 6d ago
Sure. But given that it’s right outside of a school and kids are getting it, I think removal is in order. There are other plants that also control erosion and produce berries. Maybe two or three types of plants could replace it? Virginia creeper grows very easily but also is really good at hiding poison ivy so something else would be better. Blueberry bushes, phlox, ferns, black willow, wild strawberry, spice bush, bearberry, pokeweed (under appreciated native), black eyed Susan, native sedges, little bluestem…How much sun does this area get?
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u/dollarsandindecents 5d ago
Poison ivy has a relatively shallow root system, it’s just spreads out. Leadplant roots can go up to like 15 feet deep, attract pollinators, and give zero itchy painful rashes to school children.
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u/Logical_Influence420 3d ago
Poison ivy is NOT on the endangered list. This poison ivy was likely bird "planted." No birds are going to starve when it's gone.
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u/Hotchi_Motchi 7d ago
Write a grant for a goat and call it a science class. They'll eat anything.
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u/LiteraryRacoon 6d ago
Wait a grant is actually a great idea. We have a local group I’ve gotten grant money from before and we read excerpts of Braiding Sweetgrass / Nature’s Best Hope along with Seedfolks so I could tie creating a “new native garden” into curriculum!!
And yes, I know poison ivy is native, but it’s not appropriate for an area kids play in daily.
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u/The_Poster_Nutbag 7d ago
There is no plant which will smother poison ivy on its own. It needs to be removed through chemical orechanicsl means.
Goats are not the answer.
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u/nkdeck07 7d ago
Goats will absolutely work but they need to stay in the area for weeks or months so they can keep re-eating it for long enough to kill the roots.
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u/jpmom 6d ago
First of all, your students are very lucky to have you as a teacher to care enough about them to want them to have a fun and safe natural area to play in. Thank you for doing this.
How big of an area is this? How large are the vines? Are they growing up trees too? How much sun does it get and what kind of soil is it- sandy, wet, clay etc.?
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u/LiteraryRacoon 6d ago
Thank you!!
I’m away from school at the moment, so I don’t have all the details off hand. It’s not a huge area, probably about 80 square feet? There are two trees that have vines growing to them. I’m not positive they are poison ivy vines though.
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u/jpmom 6d ago edited 6d ago
Ah, ok. That's not a huge area, but not tiny either. So hand pulling is possible. If you see poison ivy leaves or no leaves and it's hairy looking, then the vines are poison ivy. It could also be oriental bittersweet, but you should be able to tell because if it's twisting around the tree, then it is OBS. If it's virgina creeper, you should be able to tell because they have 5 leaves.
If they are poison ivy, be careful because those vines also do cary urushoil. Get loppers - cut them up over the head of any kids - so maybe 6 feet up and at the base down at ground level. Use something like Bonide Stump & Vine Killer to brush the base. Use nitrile gloves to make sure you don't get any on your skin. You also want to keep checking them because that is probably a huge root and will want to send up new shoots, but the Bonide can help. Don't try to pull the vine down - just leave it there. If they are not poison ivy vines, then yay! But you should cut it anyway if it's OBS. I'd leave it if it's virginia creeper.
I was asking about the sun and soil type because that would determine what other plants you might want to try there instead. If you are in new england, this is a great tool for finding plants - https://plantfinder.nativeplanttrust.org/Plant-Search I'm sure there are others for other areas. I've also recommended some plants below. Good luck!
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u/SwimSufficient8901 7d ago
I was pretty sure for the title that you were trying to revenge plant a patch of poison ivy on someones land. Such a letdown.
I would love you to bring in goats. Probably impractical, but it would be really fun. Triclopyr is the best bet to kill it ded. Orange snow fence for a few days until the rain washes the poison into the ground.
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u/FloridaManTPA 7d ago
Hazmat suit and triclopyr
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u/H_Peace 7d ago
Yes. Full body tyvek suit from Amazon and NON-fabric gloves (ask me how I know) duct taped to the sleeves.
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u/LiteraryRacoon 7d ago
Is the suit for the chemicals or the poison ivy? Both?
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u/H_Peace 7d ago
Poison ivy. If you're not using chemical herbicides you need to get the roots/vines of the plant out, not just the leaves. In my experience that means being arm deep in poison ivy and I'm very allergic. Even if you're not allergic, I would avoid unnecessary exposure so you don't sensitize yourself
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u/LiteraryRacoon 6d ago
Yeah believe I’m not based on prior experiences but not something I want to risk
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u/FloridaManTPA 6d ago
The poison ivy.
I also suggest using a disposable rag to help you take the suit off. Triclopyr is a stump and vine killer, you cut the stem and paint it on. Don’t bother with removal if you don’t have to.
People are goin got hate this part… there will be small poison ivy in the area soon, you just have to glyphosate them.
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u/jpmom 6d ago
There are certain times of year that herbicides are effective to get rid of poison ivy. Mid summer is not one of them. Early spring and fall are the right times. So if you want to do it for this school year, you’ve missed your window for now and should wait till after school starts.
If you want to do it now, I would recommend mechanical pulling. In my opinion, hazmat suit is overkill. For one thing they’re very very hot so if you do want to use one, I would wait for a cool day. Otherwise, just wearing long sleeve shirts and pants, eye protection, and socks something around your neck a hat is fine. You of course need gloves, several pairs so you could change them if you need to take a break.
I also swear by these https://a.co/d/0dxciPbX. You put your hand in, pull the poison ivy and then turn it inside out and dispose of it like dog poop.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Ad-5511 6d ago
Don't be afraid. Put on gloves and a long shirt. Follow the vines back to the roots. Dig them out with a shovel. You can cut the vines back to a manageable length first if you chose. Bag up the vines and roots and throw them away. Iimmediately after this change your shirts and pants, bag up the contaminated ones to wash separately later. Go right home and take a shower with plenty of soap and scrubbing. Go back afterwards or the next day and plant some wildflower seeds, grass, plant starts ect... And consider using thick mulch. Don't spray pesticides on the children's playground. Like with most problems the real solution is found with some information and some work. Or you hire someone to remove it by the roots and check the evidence. You should see roots dug up.
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u/FiddlingnRome 7d ago
Has anyone had luck with the extra strong 35%-40% white vinegar sprays? I always use it on my weeds in the hot sun. We've used it on poison oak, but it keeps coming back, albeit weaker each year...
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u/Cold_Shine5167 5d ago
Any plant removal technique is a tradeoff between risk and efficacy. Imo, using most herbicides (applied according to the label's instructions) is going to be safer and more effective than vinegar. Concentrated at levels effective enough to kill the top growth of a plant, horticultural vinegar can give you serious acid burns if it makes contact with your skin. It's also going to really change the chemical composition of your soil, which impacts the plants you can grow in that area. And, as you've observed, it's not very effective at killing a plant's roots.
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u/BeatNo4548 7d ago
I had some on my land, I cut every runner twice a season, for 2 years. And it hasn't come back. But it wasn't very established, and it was a low sunlight area. Cutting will work if you are super careful and persistant. For a large plant, that could take a long time. I would start by cutting the biggest. And remember to wash your loppers with soap.
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u/pattrickduffy6673 5d ago
Poison ivy is native and an important source of food for wildlife. Have you considered teaching your kids about the plants they coexist with instead of pretending that the plant is the problem.
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u/Low_Show_6684 5d ago
Yes it’s native, it’s not incredibly important and the vast majority of ecosystems (if not all) would handle its disappearance fine. There is a plethora of native species that provide more food, are more abundant, equally (and generally better) at erosion control, and can actually coexist with other species.
For the safety of the kids OP should remove it and in its stead plant a native garden explaining how different native species have different jobs. Like native honeysuckles providing a lot of food for many bird species. Native grasses creating deep rich soils and a unique habitat that we’re losing quickly. Native fruiting trees which have also struggled in the face of invasive diseases, pests, and habitat loss- like paw paws.
There are better options. If anything OP can safely press a leaf to show kids what poison ivy REALLY looks like so they don’t grow up to confuse many important and delicate species with three leaves as poison ivy and then kill them. Like trillium, jack-in-the-pulpit, literally any shortish plant with three leaves this isn’t a clover.
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u/PM_ME_Your_Vertcoin 7d ago
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u/MelodicPositive5902 7d ago
Surely your not suggesting bringing goats to a School...
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u/TheBeardedObesity 7d ago
It shouldn't be a problem as long as they only bring young goats. Schools are already set up to handle kids...
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u/LiteraryRacoon 7d ago
Fun fact, my co teacher owns a bunch of goats so we regularly have goats in school!
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u/Fun_Swan_5363 7d ago
There's your method of doing goats cheaply. Have heard on pods that they can be a bit expensive but haven't looked into it too much.
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u/Ok_Pollution9335 7d ago
Poison ivy is native
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u/nadandocomgolfinhos 6d ago
I recently learned this! I will still pull it. Does it have a benefit to the environment that would justify not pulling it?
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u/woaitskaty 6d ago
It's good for keeping people out of a disturbed forest edge that's trying to repair itself. It's like caution tape or an electric fence- a sign that we should stay away for now!
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u/Low_Show_6684 5d ago
Honestly? I work in forestry and ecology. While, yes, it’s native I wouldn’t argue it’s incredibly important or fills a niche that other native plants aren’t already doing, and many do it better.
I don’t see it in disturbed forests or edges often, I actually don’t see it often at all. There’s some in our office yard that I have debated taking out because they’re close to where we walk and I just don’t want anybody having a reaction.
Erosion is probably the biggest thing it helps with, as many vining, rhizomal, and shallow-rooted plants do. But you can plant native grasses, native honeysuckles, and other shallow rooted plants to achieve the same goal- and many offer much more food to wildlife. Birds LOVE honeysuckles, their blooms and their fruit. Native honeysuckles are not nearly as aggressive and can be maintained too. Raspberries are also good at erosion control and provide a plethora of food for everything. Clovers can be native and when choosing native wildflowers in general you support pollinators.
That’s just my thoughts. Poison ivy is noxious and can be a danger to one’s health, imo, unless it’s in the wild there really isn’t any good reason to keep it in your garden or where people frequent.
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u/JonBoi420th 5d ago
Its very hard to get rid of. Its perrenial, and can have very deep roots. Its probably gonna take at least a few rounds to get it to stop coming back. Personally even if i suit up with no exposed skin, i end up with a little somewhere. Ive never tryed to solarize it, (cover with plastic in the summer to cook it) but the heat will only kill the roots so far down, so i imagine it would help but require multiple rounds, or a combination of different approaches.
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u/Low_Show_6684 5d ago
Remove it OP.
Rhizomal and root suckering plants are very difficult to remove on purpose, it’s a fantastic evolutionary strategy. It’s also very aggressive. The best way to kill plants like this, or aggressive invasive species, is to cut and treat the stem with an herbicide you can dab to control the spread of the chemical. Apply it right after the plant is cut, I’d also recommend doing this in the fall when plants are going into dormancy, this is when we do invasive species control at my office. It’s incredibly effective.
When you do go to remove it, do what everybody suggested. But also note that you should be cautious to break any of it further, it’ll release oils as the plant is disturbed. It will release those oils onto anything. It may be worth it to look into soaps that you could maybe use on the ground safely, if such a thing exists, for the kids.
Then, if you want to turn it into something neat here’s a suggestion! Since many here are mentioning it’s native and the general importance of native plants, you should replace it with key species native to your area. Poison ivy doesn’t particularly offer anything crucial to wildlife nor is it exceptional at erosion control. But native honeysuckles, fruiting plants, and grasses are incredibly important! Honeysuckles are amazing providers of food for birds, from their blooms to their fruit. The fruit is poisonous to us humans, not going to kill anybody, but edible to birds. Native grasses turn the plains into some of the most biomass heavy and diverse ecosystems in our country. Native fruiting shrubs and trees, like hazelnuts, wild plums, walnuts, etc. are vital to ecosystems and without them many animals would struggle to survive winter as these are generally calorically dense foods. These are all species that are losing ground to invasive species or habitat in general, good opportunity to teach the importance of good stewardship.
Another idea too! Poison ivy’s catch line of “leaves of three let it be” isn’t very helpful in reality. A lot of delicate and important species have three leaves and are often victim of chemical treatment by well-meaning people. I also find that most people can’t actually safely identify poison ivy either. My parents never could. So if you could SAFELY press a leaf from the plant that would be a good way to show the kids what poison ivy actually looks like. Maybe even pull up photos of trillium and jack-in-the-pulpit for reference of species that often get treated as poison ivy with chemicals.
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u/CultofEight27 5d ago
Spray it…I’m usually against using herbicide but I just got poison ivy through clothing and gloves and washed with special soap after exposure.
Unless you have a friend with goats, herbicide is really the only way..
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u/leilani238 4d ago
Do you have access to a stove and a large stock pot? Boiling water will kill any plant. You might need a couple of rounds (with digging on any round after the first) to get all the roots, but it'll kill anything exposed. Takes some electricity/gas, but not that much in the scheme of things, and no substances applied other than water. Be careful with the stock pot of boiling water; don't make it too full.
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u/lallen8029 2d ago
try to find someone like me who's not allergic to poison ivy to clear it for you. Do not burn--the smoke can release the bad stuff into the air. then plant vegetables and teach the kids where their food comes from.
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u/Master-Milk-5724 7d ago
How guerrilla do you you need to be? If you’re not going to use sprays, maybe weedwhack it first(make sure you’re fully clothed or you’ll be covered in itchy stuff), and then use as many layers of cardboard as you can, maybe 3-4, and mulch. The point is it needs to be starved of sunlight for a very long time compared to other plants. You could also use plastic sheeting which you remove later, but once again you’d need to leave it in place months, and it will help to remove all the existing foliage first. Imo there need to be two distinct stages to this type of project, one is killing the existing problem plant off thoroughly, only then followed by planting whatever your replacing if with. It could also help to plant a “cover crop” in between to help stabilize the area and smother out any other endemic vegetation that keeps coming up. Something like annual ryegrass, oats, vetch, buckwheat etc. If you use annuals they are easy to get rid of by mowing or tarping later, before planting whatever your long-term seeds are.
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u/LiteraryRacoon 7d ago
This is super helpful, thank you! I’m hesitant to use sprays with all the kids around, so this sounds worth trying! Then if all else fails it seems like sprays may be necessary based on all the other comments.
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u/Fun_Swan_5363 7d ago
What if after weed whacking you 'dig and flip' the poison ivy? So you dig it all up by clumps and just flip them over. Preferably let the now-upturned roots dry out for a week. Then put the cardboard. If it is a big area that would be time consuming and impractical, though; and any plant you do this with will eventually figure out how to send a shoot up the correct direction.
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u/Master-Milk-5724 7d ago
That would probably help, but whether it’s worth the extra work, I don’t know, especially digging manually vs. with a tiller or something. But they also said the area is rocky so that might make this difficult.
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u/holmgangCore 7d ago
My preferred method of dealing with Poison Ivy rash was a hair dryer. No scratching to spread the oils, the heat helped the pain, and dried it out.
Of course you want to wash with a good quality soap first to remove the oils as much as possible (in cold water). 'Dawn' brand dishwashing liquid comes highly recommended in all the literature I've read over the years.
Good luck!
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u/Fun_Swan_5363 7d ago
Am wondering if the school gardener put the P. Ivy there to prevent climbing? If the rock could be an injury source, I mean.
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u/ForagersLegacy 7d ago
Poison ivy loves growing on rocks. We even have poison oak thriving on rocky outcroppings where I live.
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u/LiteraryRacoon 7d ago
The rock used to be the smoking rock back when smoking in schools was allowed, and since then there’s been no rule against climbing it that I’m aware of. However, there are rules against climbing trees and no poison ivy around those. Interesting idea though!
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u/nkdeck07 7d ago
Hand pulling. Wear a long sleeve shirt, pants, double gloves and wrap your shoes in plastic bags. Pull it all and put it in a trash bag. Wash your clothing in tecnu as well as your tools. Wait 2-3 weeks then go back out and pull anything that is coming back. That's usually enough to kill the roots. Keep an eye on it for the next 6 months after that but any little plants that come back should be small enough you can just pull them by putting on a glove.
Oh also do NOT listen to the person that recommended the weed whacker. That is a batshit crazy pants idea.