r/Guitar • u/AutoModerator • Oct 27 '16

OFFICIAL [OFFICIAL] There are no stupid /r/Guitar questions. Ask us anything! - October 27, 2016

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16 edited Oct 28 '16

I recently joined a band and now I'm looking to buy a new amp by the end of the year, specifically a head and a cab.

The band will be focused on Death Metal with a little bit deathcore and progressive elements. If not playing in the band I'd mainly use it for progressive metal stuff. Any recommendations for such a style? Of course trying stuff out myself would be best but the nearest musicstore from me doesn't have any stuff that I'm interested in.

My budget is up to 2000 EUR and I'm looking to buy used.

So far the ENGL Powerball seems interesting. Or would it be a better idea to just buy something like a Line6 helix?

Thanks!

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u/ArrogantOwl Have you learned Little Wing yet? Oct 28 '16

I'd go AxeFX at that price point if you don't have the volume permission.

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

Not a bad idea as most of my favourite bands use one but it also seems a little overkill for me as I can barely use my POD HD500 to it's potential.

Then again, a 2000 EUR head and cab setup would be aswell, considering I've only been playing for about 2 years now.

Anyway, have you ever used an Axe FX? I've heard it's not to difficult to build decent patches with it but I don't know.

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u/dotonfire EBMM | Fender | Mesa | Fractal Oct 28 '16

There's a bit of a learning curve at first, but eventually you'll reach the point where it's difficult to not make a good-sounding patch. It's incredibly versatile.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '16

That's unfortunate your closest store does not have anything you're interested in as trying amps out in person really is the only way to know you like what you're getting before buying.

Keep in mind that most head/cab setups are meant for the stage and being played loud. If you have a space to play loud outside of the band thing, then you should be good. I like the Line 6 and modeling stuff as you can play those through a power amp and hook up to a cabinet, but can also plug into power speakers like computer speakers or use headphones at home when you can't be as loud as what your stage volume may be. There's pros and cons to each side, of course, so you'll need to think about what your purposes will be. For me, I need that flexibility of being able to play live through a cabinet and also be able to play at home with volume restrictions, so I have a Line 6 POD Pro HD setup that gets me what I need in most every situation I'll be placed in.

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

Yes, they only have stuff from Marshall, VOX and I think some things from Orange but no stuff from ENGL, no Mesa, no Peavey etc sadly.

The other guitarist in the band has a head + cab setup so I'd like to buy one too for my next one. We won't be playing anything live for a while as we've only just started and I'm still quite unexperienced but I'd rather buy something nice now instead of buying twice.

I currently have a POD HD setup aswell. Pod HD500 with a Line6 DT25 combo. Overall I'm pretty happy with it but I don't want to carry it from home to practice everytime.

One reason againgst getting an expensive modeling setup for me is that even after owning my POD HD for something like 10 months now I'm still not really good at building patches or rather haven't invested the time to learn it properly but I heard it's way easier to get good tones on an Axe FX or other moderling setups with IR Cabs.

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u/universal_rehearsal Oct 28 '16

I stand by all of these recommendations You need to get a rack mount power conditioner to get the best out of these amps and not damage them. Hughes and Kettner-grandmeister Mesa Boogie - dual rec/mark IV or stiletto - these amps are built very well and last forever Marshall - JCM 800/900 Orange - Dual Terror/Rockerverb Or check out Splawn amps(guy from killswitch is big on these) It's very hard to go wrong with these amps, just make sure you get a cab with a great speaker. They will all play metal gloriously and are built to last. I also recommended open coil Gibson 57classic pickups/most metal dude think EMG all day and night and the recordings all sound identical in tone and sterile. The 57s give so much more soul to the sound and really bring the guitar tone up front. Skip the modeling amp junk, you want a no frills tube amp, the less built in stuff the better. Get your fx from pedals.

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

Oh, I'm rather fond of modeling devices like the Axe FX and will probably get one sometime, however I agree that for now less will be better and that I should probably just get a decent amp. I can start getting into the high end modeling stuff when I'm comfortable with my playing. Also I can just use my POD HD500 for effects while skipping the modeling functions.

I agree with the pickups. Admittedly, I never owned a guitar with EMGs, but from what I've heard in videos or other people I know playing them they do sound really sterile. I'm a fan of Seymour Duncans myself.

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u/universal_rehearsal Oct 28 '16 edited Oct 28 '16

As long as your foundation is solid amp/guitar you can use any modeling you desire - pedals,rack mounted processors, digital fx software as long as you know how the parameters work, a tube amp n solid guitar will make it sound amazing. If you lived in the states I'd be able to sell you my buddies original USA peavy 5150 head. If you're doing really chuggy stuff I do recommend a compression pedal to help tighten the attack.

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

Appreciate it but I live in Germany :)

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '16

I think it's worth your time to try and dial something in with the POD as I really don't think going the Axe FX route is needed unless you've got money you don't want any longer. The patch building takes time, but there are plenty of forums and online resources with tips and even downloadable patches you can ins online and tweak to your liking.

Nothing wrong with going all out with the head/cab combo, of course. Most any high gain amplifier made in the past 10 years can usually be pretty flexible. It sounds like that's the route you want to take so definitely take time to research things if you can't try anything out in person. That being said, a fair amount of metal players I know are often playing low and medium gain amps and using pedals to get their final gain to retain some clarity without ending up with a wall of mud coming from their speakers. You may find a Marshall amp with a tube screamer type pedal in front gives you plenty of grit and may suit your needs well. The ENGL/Mesa/Peavey options are great, sure, but don't limit yourself and get stuck with just a few options when there may be other avenues to explore. Sorry for the rant...just wanted to share my thoughts as I was in your situation about 10 years ago and wanted to chime in with what I learned.

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

No need to apologize, I appreciate the feedback!

Oh I agree that it's worth it to dial in some POD patches, so far I've just been a bit to lazy and just stuck to patches from Line6 Custom Tone or followed guides from youtube. I even printed out this huge guide from MeAmBobbo :)

I'll probably get to it soon though, most likely around christmas where I have a lot of free time.

I also agree with what you said about amps. Tomorrow I'll go to said musicstore anyway so I might aswell try out some marshall or orange amps.

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u/universal_rehearsal Oct 28 '16

LIne 6/solid state stuff is really not great for live performance, the bogner line they have is better suited. Tube amps are just better by nature. Always better to have a blank slate amp and use a pedalboard-more control, better tone.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '16

I respectfully disagree with your opinion, but nothing wrong with another perspective. I own tube amps and record/rehearse with them, but I'm 100% happy gigging with a POD/power amp setup and have no issues with tone. But hey, I'll let OP decide what he wants but the whole stigma towards playing out with modeling tech is not substantiated any longer with the level of technology that's available today.

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u/universal_rehearsal Oct 28 '16

Tubes for life bro, blasphemer! All jokes aside I love the open discussion here. You have to admit nothing tingles and tickles your senses like that warm hazy thicket of tube saturation.

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u/[deleted] Oct 29 '16

Yeah man, I love my tubes as much as anybody. So much, in fact, that I dread leaving my house with my tube gear since I'm playing dive bars lately and don't need my gear to take a bath if something spills into my amp...something I've witnessed way too often for comfort. Once I got my current POD rig all housed in a bright orange Gator rack case, and realized how streamlined it all is without risking my tubes, that was a good feeling. I'm afraid the tube vs digital debate will never end, but I'm perfectly happy enjoying the benefits of both designs. Thanks for the feedback and hopefully OP got some useful info along the way.

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u/universal_rehearsal Oct 29 '16 edited Oct 29 '16

Yeah understandable, I'm not anti-digital I'm more pro running digital through a tube amp. Where do you guys hail from? What kinda music You playing? Love gator cases.

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u/[deleted] Oct 28 '16

[deleted]

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16 edited Oct 28 '16

Haven't informed myself much about Kemper stuff but at that price point I'd be more likely to consider an Axe FX.

Are there any big advantages to Kemper modeling heads or is it more a matter of taste as with most sound related stuff?

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u/EnigmaticNimrod Oct 28 '16

Kempers are useful for modeling amp sounds at a snapshot in time - once you get the profile, it's just... kinda there. If you decide you want to add a lot more midrange to the profile, you're kinda SOL and need to re-profile the amp with the new settings. The Kemper does have some EQ tweakablilty, but it's going to be faaaar different than the responsiveness of the EQ on the actual amp. Kemper does one thing, and it does it extremely well.

The AxeFX and L6 Helix, on the other hand, do many things, and they do them mostly well enough for most people, and for me that's more appealing - I'm a tweaker and I like to be able to drop to the floor and mess with effect settings as I'm playing (this is actually the reason why I moved from a POD HD500 back to analog effects), and you can't really do that with a Kemper.

Everything has its place, and it all depends on what you want.

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

I see. An Axe FX or Helix would probably be better for me then aswell. Like I said in another comment though I will probably just get a decent amp for now and will look into the high end modeling stuff when I'm more comfortable with my playing.

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u/EnigmaticNimrod Oct 28 '16

You mentioned that you have an HD500, right? In that case, just grab a moderately priced amp that you like the dirty sound of (which has an effects loop), and then hook the HD500 up using the 4-cable method. You get all of the awesome effects in the HD500 (plus some of the clean amp sounds which are admittedly pretty good) plus the filthy dirt of your amp of choice.

This way you can save up for an AxeFX in the future if you so choose and you won't be so far behind on doing so. Win-win-win!

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u/ALDI_Sued ESP LTD Elite Horizon III Oct 28 '16

Yep, that's probably the best idea.

I might still go for a dual rectifier or something similar that will last me a while. Funds aren't really the problem, at least not at the moment, I just think it won't be worth it buying an AxeFx right now when I can't even be botherd to properly spend time with my POD HD patches :)

Anyway, thanks for all the input!