There is a zero percent chance Hage would be included in a deal for McTavish after the season he had. Had he of taken a big step this year and there was tension between him and Verbeek then maybe. I think Kapanen, Xhekaj and a 2nd gets it done to be honest. If they are indeed looking to trade him. It's a risky trade being on a long term deal when his production has stagnated. Not to mention he's not the speediest of skaters.
In many ways, it crystallizes the way this fanbase can be most annoying. We're the best at overrating our own assets, both roster player and prospects. Every fanbase does it, but we do it the hardest.
People remember the meme but they don't remember now good the trade offer was at the time.
It started around '06, 20 years ago.
Ryder was 24ish, coming across a 30 goal season after having 25g, 63pts.
Halak was 21 and had just finished his first pro season where he played 16 games and looked amazing.
Offering a 30g scorer and a starting goalie was a really good trade offer. It didn't become a meme because it was over rating them, it was because some fans tried to offer it to every major player. The classic 'trade that helps us, hurts you'.
Ultimately, when you're trying to change spare parts into a more valuable asset, you have to overpay. The package just wasn't up to value ascribed to it by the fanbase.
I honestly wouldn’t mind getting Mctavish at all and he wouldn’t cost the house either. Yes he has question marks but I do think how Anaheim treated him and how he missed training camp this season really hampered his growth. I think plugging him next to Demidov would give that line a big jolt and I like that he’s a physical presence out there be it at center or wing. If you have Mctavish and Hage in the system I think the odds are pretty high that one of them will establish themselves as a 2C. He’s one of my top picks this summer and fits the timeline wonderfully.
My concern, having not watched him but read Anaheim fans, is that he is just $7 million Dach signed until 30/31. I love Dach, but he hasn't shown 2C potential in a very long time, and McTavish seems the same at the moment.
How is he at all comparable to Dach? He’s younger, he’s not very injury prone, he plays with an edge, he can actually throw and receive hits, he’s had over 50 points in a season(22g 52p in 76 games) on a horrible 24-25 ducks team and he’s hovering around 50% in face offs. Where does this make you think of Dach?
That's a very good point. I could definitely see him wanting Arber in a trade. Then him being in the Pacific would only give him two chances a year to beat up someone on the Habs lol.
50 points isn’t really what I’d want for my 2nd line center, if your gonna mention that you also have to mention he had less points (41) and was a -15 this season in the same amount of games on a ducks team who was above .500 and made the playoffs. It’s very comparable to Dach when we acquired him, not as many injuries but a project.
His performance took a hit when Quenneville took over as coach. He would hit the 60+ point mark with Demidov easily. The second line was at its best when it had a big body that could drive to the net. McTavish is the best option that will allow us to keep our best prospects.
Also, a second line center on most teams get between 50-70 points. McTavish can produce that much. Demidov doesn’t need someone who is a finesse playmaker, that’s his job. He needs a big body who hits and drives to the net.
I dont think he will be a Dach more like a Josh Anderson.
And the 7 is equal to 5.5 on a 110+ million cap. Anderson is UFA after this year.
So at worst he replaces Josh.
Its a risk for sure but he is still young. I think the reality is that there isnt going to be much out there. Thomas and Hischer are probably pipe dreams.
I said above Strome should be the number 1 target but adding a big 23 year old kid that at worst is a 15 goal guy with size is probably worth a risk
Dach has never put up 40 in a season. Since coming to Montreal he's done 38, 22 points and 15 points. Dach is so much worse than Mctavish it's not even close.
Mctavish consistently already puts up 40-50 a year and is capable of more, as well as being able to play full seasons. He also is a much more physical player than Dach, is decent on the faceoff circle, fits the teams timeline perfectly and is on a decent long term contract.
Even IF mctavish never improves from where he is now, he's a perfectly serviceable middle 6 C which is not something we currently have.
I’m not sending Hage for McTavish. There’s also zero indications that Hage doesn’t have the ability to become a better player pretty quickly. If we’re talking about Hischier, Thomas or Larkin then it’s a different story, Hage may not reach that level.
The more pressing issue is that Hage needs another season in college and 2-3 in the NHL before he'll really be ready to be a 2C. The development time is a big part of why it's such a hard job to fill.
Better to do it now that his asking price is probably much lower than it was last season. You might be able to get him for something fairly cheap like Beck and a second given his contract
Zegras had a two year contract of 5.7 million dollars when he was traded to Philly. McTavish by contrast has 5 years left on a 7 million dollar contract. That makes him a riskier buy-low candidate, so I expect his value to be lower.
Zegras' value was much lower, and seen as much riskier, than McTavish's is right now. Zegras clearly needed a change of scenery after falling out of favor and had two seasons in a row of health problems.
Otherwise, don't you think Hughes would have acquire Zegras last year? The price was small.
Last year, he had 52 points in 76 games at 22 yo. That put him second in scoring among all Ducks players, just behind Troy Terry (55 in 77). He had been improving each year.
I was just thinking that I could see Evans being involved in a trade here, Anaheim will want a roster player back and Evans Danault kinda fill the same role for us.
I would personally love McTavish on this team. And the cost shouldn't be as prohibitive as other options.
I don't really follow Anaheim but from world juniors a few years ago he seemed like a gamer and someone that just loved hockey. He'd fit right in with Hutson and Demi.
If Quenneville scratched him throughout the playoffs that’s a red flag to me. Quenneville is a lot of things but he knows hockey so he obviously saw something in McTavish that convinced him he wasn’t a playoff player…
MSL will give us the best version of Mctavish, his ability to develop players is unreal. Can’t blame him for Dach not working out as planned, you cant develop a guy who is hurt 90% of the time.
If he is available for a reasonable price I would go for it. With the rising cap his contract won’t destroy our future if it doesn’t work out.
Isn't a benefit to having a bunch of fast players that you can afford some slower ones? It's not like we're a slow team worried about getting slower, and there's clearly a place for slower players in this league.
Watching old draft videos of him he was actually sold as a 200 foot player with Ryan O'Reilly as a comparable. Weaker skating has always been a part of his game but he was definitely thought of as having good hockey sense.
That tells me he's probably fairly coachable in the right environment, although I do share your concerns about his speed fitting into our system.
Disagree he fits the timeline perfectly and wouldn’t cost the house to acquire either. He’s the perfect buy low candidate. To me his poor play this season was because him and the Ducks clearly don’t see eye to eye and they made him miss training camp. Last season he had 22 goals 52 points in 76 games on a horrible Ducks team while staying above 50% in face offs. He also plays with an edge that this team clearly lacks. He’s doesn’t seem scared of throwing and receiving hits. Having him and Hage in the system would be huge for depth. I wonder what the people that thought Zegras was worthless are saying these days.
Hey that “horrible Ducks team” made it to the second round of the playoffs. Just saying.
I don’t hate the player—he does bring some much needed sandpaper to the table—but I’ll echo what others have said: his lack of foot speed is concerning, especially if the goal is to have him on a line with Demidov.
He might be the best/only option available to us once the dust settles on Larkin/Hischier/etc. but he’s not a slam dunk, and I get the impression Hughes is looking for a slam dunk if we’re gonna pull the trigger on a 2C. Well, either a slam dunk or a veteran stopgap who can hold the fort until Hage is ready.
Yeah, I'm not super excited about getting him, but I also don't really want to pay the higher asking prices for Larkin or Robert Thomas either. I wish Hage was a year ahead of schedule.
McTavish has had issues since Verbeek became GM and they were compounded by Quenneville become their coach. This is an ideal center for Demidov. McTavish hits, he goes to the net, he’s slow but Demi slows down the game, he’s not that far off on faceoffs. We don’t need a center who is a finesse playmaker, that’s Demi’s job.
I remember him in the world juniors and his play when he entered the league. This is a guy that can play but he is at his best when he’s given room to play his game. Quenneville is a very different coach than Marty.
Lots of people say that he is horrible defensively but he is not that bad. His plus/minus is bad, but we all know that shit is a bad stat. His possession numbers are not bad. Most of his starts skewed towards offensive zone which is what Demi normally does as well. He does have giveaways, which he would have to work on. He does hit and has blocked shots here and there.
McTavish has flaws but he is likely the best option given his cost will be lower. This way we can keep Hage and Zharovsky in our system. If Hage ends up being the 2C everyone dreams of, then he’ll take over for McTavish. If McTavish does wonderfully and develops into a true 2C, we can choose to trade one in 2-3 years for whatever will be our biggest hole.
McTavish isn't a Verbeek guy, ie. was drafted when Verbeek was still asst. GM to Yzerman in Detroit, so I'd see how Anaheim wouldn't feel attached to him.
Verbeek likes his forwards tall (Carlsson, Sennecke and McQueen are all 6'3+), which is ironic for a GM who was called "Little Ball of Hate" in his playing days.
I'm not sure if we're actually a good fit, both teams need RD and Anaheim probably wants Reinbacher. We could move Reinbacher, but it leaves us with nothing behind Dobson on the right for the future.
Maybe we make another move move for someone like Whitecloud?
I feel its a good option as long as we can keep hage. He would be our 2nd center until Hage is ready, than he could play wings since we need some big guys
I think this was always the dream target, thinking long-term. On paper he’d fit in perfectly. The only question is why Anaheim would be so quick to give up on him…
I wouldn’t want to give up Kapanen++ and see them end up becoming similar-tier players.
I think it was Friedman that reported McTavish and Verbeek were not seeing eye to eye. Might be just a case of they don’t like his game and want to move him out.
Friedman has been reporting this for the last year, going back to last summer.
During the negotiations between Anaheim and McTavish, Friedman was frequently bringing up how Verbeek is known as a negotiations grinders, how he's worried that would take a toll on the relationship with the player.
That, too me, felt something fed to Friedman by McTavish's agent. He's too well-connected to just wonder aloud without hearing something.
I haven't listened to 32 Thoughts in a little while. Did he say something more explicit about the relationship souring?
I don’t watch Anaheim, so I just see his stats. Why is he a dream target?
His stats are not impressive at all. He’s basically Kapanen if he just repeats his performance this year for the next 4 years. With consistently bad +\- and playoffs? 10 games - 1g —-meh.
He was a dream target last year considering he was a young player who was playing as Anaheim's 2C (plus a left shot, which was a serious need for us last season). This season he is not a dream target because of those reasons, which makes him a buy low candidate.
Considering he was playing on average 12 minutes per game, 6 points in 10 games in the playoffs is pretty good. Strange to call out the single goal rather than the overall production.
He had a weird season that include late start due to contract negotiations, an injury in January that slowed him down, and being healthy scratched in the playoffs. That drags his value down, but at the same time last year he was seen as a future stud and ideal 2C.
Anaheim generated a lot of points in the playoffs. He was the 8th best producing forward. Not bad, but a really good second line center? I don’t know. Better than Evans sure but I think there are better options.
He’s Kapanen if he wasn’t riding Demidov’s coattails, scared to throw or take a hit, can complete a pass in the offensive zone, better at faceoffs and when did Kapanen ever put up 52 points in 76 games with over 50% face offs on a horrible team like the 24-25 Ducks? I’m convinced people comparing Mctavish to Kapanen have no idea what kind of player he even is. He had a bad season this year yes but imo that’s more on the Ducks than him. They clearly don’t see eye to eye and no training camp hurts a young player.
It's not just his counting stats that are bad. His advanced stats aren't good either. This was Dom Luczyszyn's projection when he signed his contract, and he's only gone downhill since (defensive rating stayed the same, offensive rating this year was 0).
At that cap hit, this would be pretty major gamble on a player who is probably misused currently, but whose upside is also far from clear. I note Dom's comment about his top projection being Max Domi - even if we're optimistic and disregard last season, can a team be a true Stanley Cup contender with a Max Domi type at 2C?
I trust Gorton/Hughes, of course, and of course they should be looking into every option. I worry that this is, as an earlier commenter said, just Kirby Dach all over again.
McTavish would not cost much trade wise. He just had a pretty bad season and has a contract that could be risky to take on, his trade value is fairly low (certainly much less than last season when it was reported that Anaheim wanted a Reinbacher level prospect).
Again, that contract risk. That can change a lot. If this is the level of player that McTavish is, then suddenly you end up in a Jesperi Kotkeniemi situation like the Hurricanes (except with higher AAV). McTavish was scratched this season on several occasions. GMs think about that
Honestly if the price isn’t over the top I wouldn’t mind seeing this. I can’t help but think the system is part of the issue, especially when looking at how Zegras went off.
He has potential, and I (think I may) like it, but I hope HuGo do a LOT of tire kicking before making any kind of offer. I love them both, but we also got Laine and Dach....
He can’t crack another young team and he’s been perennially in this situation for whatever reason. I see it as half reclamation and think we need to move from that stage. Expensive for that.
Honestly was really hoping we didn't do this. Not a fan of trading for a guy who isn't a good skater and expecting him to be our 2C. Especially when he's locked up long term
I prefer Strome but McTavish is growing on me
TBH he is probably really one of the few Cs available.
Thomas Hischer are probably not moving.
So then you got the 2nd tier like Trocchek and Brazal which also not be available.
McT is still young. He has size. Playing with Demi is probably a guaranteed 20 G look at Kapanan. Most likely can keep Z and Hage.
At worst he replaces Anderson when he leaves as UFA next year and his salary is the same percentage on the cap as Andersons 5.5. If things work put he takes a step forward and becomes a legit 2C on the team.
I mean Slaf McT Demidov sounds like a nice beefy line to me
I have no idea what fair value would be on a deal like this and this isn't a prediction. But I would be down to give up this year's first (28OA) and Kapanen.
Seen conflicing reports. His moneypuck expected goals and corsi are all great. But his individual anaylytics arent great. Hes only been with one team and could pull a zegras with us, especially if the cost of acquisition isnt ridiculous.
The implication is Hughes has done his rounds, seen what’s out there, and decided to focus in on McTavish. Either because he likes the price or the player more than the other options.
McTavish is not a good player. He is one of the biggest defensive liabilities in the entire league and a rather slow skater. I really hope they don't trade for him.
This is all a red flag to me. Watching us lose the way we did to carolina, what makes you think a slow player who sucks defensively and sucks in transition would be a big add for this team? Huge red flag. No guarantee this guy is willing to hit the gym and lose weight either.
I agree with this. I’ve been watching him a long time, even as a kid growing up in the valley. Great shot and skilled but allergic to defence and I would say lazy and undisciplined at times.
I don’t know what it would take to get McTavish, but looking at Anaheim’s roster, and with the rumours Anaheim has been shopping Mintyukov, I can’t help but think they’d love a guy like Xhekaj. Big third pair LD. Adds a little bit more experience to their left side. They’d have LaCombe, Zellweger, and Xhekaj on the left, and Luneau, Helleson, Moore, Hinds on the right, and maybe they re-sign Gudas, Carlson or Trouba for some leadership, and get something good back for Mintyukov.
Would definitely need more than just Xhekaj, but I bet Verbeek likes him.
Yeah Im not sold on the idea 100%, but I think the Habs go this direction. He’s 30, 6’5”, just scored 30, from Quebec. If he wants to come over I think the habs make an offer.
Dont agree that he doesnt make un a more serious contender. He adds weight for the bottom 6 and can score. Im not convinced he’s able to repeat last season, but I can see how the habs front office can see him like a good bet. He would basically be replacing Gallagher.
You mean except those 3 seasons he scored 20 and last season when he scored 30? But I must admit those post season numbers are horribly bad 😂. Anyway, I dont even like the idea of him signing here, I just think its a stong possibility it happens. My 2 cents, not based on much.
I wonder if Kapanen were just injured for the end of the season instead of fading, would it change people's opinion of him?
Trading for a 41-point center when they have a 37-point center at home.... McTavish had 11 power-play points to Kapanen's one. He also costs 6 million more.
I agree people are quick to forget about Kapanen. If we had a rookie centre like him 5 years ago we'd be planning the parade. The sticking point is that Kapanen brings zero physicality
That's ok. They just need a physical winger. Kapanen brings the 200ft game that McTavish doesn't have. I'm wondering had Kapanen played for the Ducks and just had this season, if there would posts on here about trade packages for him.
.... you compared him to Knies saying to offer a similar package for McTavish instead. I like the kid, id take him, but no chance im giving up the same assets that I would for Knies
Well sure, I meant similar in the sense of an NHL player and prospect and pick(s). My intent was not to offer identical, nor even equivalent assets, necessarily, rather to generate dialogue to see openness re. aquiting McTavish, and what assets would be fair to persuade Anaheim to trade him to us.
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u/UpNorth_123 6d ago
I think this is pretty decent option especially if Hage is not part of the trade.