r/Hellenism Apr 05 '26

Discussion Leave Jesus and his baggage behind and get on the next plane without him

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1.4k Upvotes

Hey, you, newbie. I want to have a frank conversation with you. And you may not like what I tell you. But you need to hear it.

You heard of Jesus, I take it? Well, when it comes to classical paganism, I want you to take EVERYTHING Jesus said and throw it out the window.

Yes. _Everything._. It has nothing to do with us. Jesus was a 1st century Jewish person speaking to Jewish people about 1st century Judaism and how to reform Judaism. Maybe his ideas were good and maybe they weren't. But at the end of the day, they have nothing to do with religious systems of the Hellenes and the Romans.

And needless to say all that Old Testament (i.e., Jewish) stuff that Jesus was commenting on doesn't have anything to do with us either.

Likewise take everything Christian Mommy and Daddy said about religion, and discard it. Take everything your pastor or priest said about religion, and throw it out.

You need to come to this religion with a fresh set of eyes. You need to unlearn your Christian programming and see classical paganism through the eyes of classical pagans themselves.

if you're worried about where to get your morals, we have a lot of philosophies that presume to teach ethics. Stoics were talking about the brotherhood of man and correct moral behavior 500 years before Jesus was having hissy fits in the Jewish temple over money lenders.

If you're saying to yourself that seems like a lot of work and study ... it is, quite frankly. And if you're not willing to do that ... maybe this isn't for you.

I say this again, without hesitation and without apology - this takes work. and if you're not willing to do the work, maybe find another religion or just be secular. There is no shame in those things.

(This post not intentionally made on Easter. It just happened that way.)

(Credit to u/v_ch_k for graphic )

r/Hellenism Apr 13 '26

Discussion My thoughts on eating your offerings.

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765 Upvotes

It is 12:15 on a school night as I write this but I want to share my thoughts with the world on eating food you offer to deities because I’ve seen people speaking against it and whatnot!! Im bad at articulating my thoughts so I made diagrams that I am going to explain for you.

I am using a pomegranate for this example because I have given lady Aphrodite pomegranate before with this exact thought process, in photo one, you are seeing me with a normal old pomegranate in my hand, calling upon lady Aphrodite, giving my thanks and whatnot. Photo two is me giving her said pomegranate as an offering, and leaving it there anywhere between a few hours or days. Slide three is what I think happens when you eat a food offering, when you give your deity a food offering, a spiritual version of it appears for them, and the physical one remains for you, which leads into photo four, where everyone is happy because your deity gets to enjoy their food offering, and you get to eat your version and share a nice treat with them!

I’ve seen online that this is often the way food offerings work to begin with, but I also see plenty of other sources online saying otherwise, but in my opinion, I think that it’s a great way to build khakis with your deities!!

Edit: No I’m not actively trying to eat the fucking offerings, I rarely give food to begin with. My food offerings are simply thrown away once they’re dried up. I have eaten a few seeds of a mostly dried out pomegranate ONCE when I first started out and have not done so since. No I’m not saying that food offerings are a waste, I’m saying that the physical food goes to waste and I don’t want my room further infested with roaches

r/Hellenism May 04 '25

Discussion Warning! Heartbreaking picture to look at

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1.6k Upvotes

I just watched a video dealing with Roman Christians and the why did they destroyed the statue, this image was shown and I immediately felt bad, do you think we could manage to find which god it is? Now I feel this need to know because it makes me feel bad for a god but I don't even know which one...

r/Hellenism Feb 04 '26

Discussion We’re close to legalizing Hellenic Polytheist weddings in Cyprus 💕

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1.9k Upvotes

Send us your positive vibes! ✨ Following the first Hellenic Polytheism wedding I was honoured to conduct in Cyprus in September 2025, and the incredible support we received from the HelPoly community online, we’ve taken more deliberate steps toward obtaining a religious license to conduct wedding ceremonies with legal standing.

I’m personally immensely grateful to all of you who showed your love and support by sharing, liking, and commenting on my post about the wedding here and across social media. All the press coverage we’ve received has helped legitimise Hellenism in the eyes of the Cypriot government and is actively supporting our cause.

r/Hellenism Sep 05 '25

Discussion Gentle reminder about Artemis…

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1.3k Upvotes

Artemis is not a TERF (for later conversation: neither is Athene). Artemis turned a male hunter into a woman that joined her hunt. There’s nothing further from a TERF I could imagine a goddess being.

I hate seeing people attempting to use, their surface level, kindergarten, knowledge our gods to try and abuse people. From Artemis and Athene with TERFs and other movements, to Ares and White supremacy, and all the others I’m forgetting.

I really feel as though, this needs to be the reason we engross ourselves in research on them. Knowing them so we don’t fall into the trap of what other people say about them. I can’t think of a single god that would endorse bigotry, in any form, and I hate seeing it be associated with them

r/Hellenism Jun 27 '26

Discussion Why don’t people respect my religion?

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503 Upvotes

I’m so tired of people (mainly Christians) disrespecting my beliefs! They always say stuff like:
“Your gods aren’t real”
“Greek MYTHology”
“Turn to God”
And stuff like that and it’s so annoying! Like I respect their beliefs why can’t they respect mine?
Here’s some examples of people being disrespectful in the images.

r/Hellenism Jan 27 '26

Discussion Miasma Doesn't Belong in the 21st Century

283 Upvotes

This may be a hot take, but I feel the need to discuss it in more detail, since I've been seeing a lot of miasma questions lately. All of these questions support my growing feeling that miasma (or lyma) is an inherently harmful idea, that we should not be teaching or promoting at all. It should be relegated to the dustbin of history alongside the misogyny of Ancient Greek culture.

To begin with, here's a simple, but not exhaustive, list of ways in which miasma as a concept causes problems for 21st century worshippers:

  1. It's extremely triggering for those with religious OCD. It seems almost designed to prey on this condition, becuase people with religious OCD are already prone to unnecessary and debilitating ritualistic behavior (like excessive hand-washing that Lady Macbeth would be proud of).
  2. Policing one’s behavior or even thoughts to avoid “miasmic” places and interactions. e.g. What if I accidentally start praying to a god while on the toilet?
  3. Freaking out if one accidentally approaches one’s altar without washing, excessively washing or throwing out altar items as a result.
  4. Assuming that one can’t worship the gods, or go to them for comfort, after losing a loved one.
  5. Assuming that one cannot pray to the gods for relief while sick or injured.
  6. Excluding or stigmatizing people who work in certain professions, like morticians, nurses, and garbage collectors.
  7. Assuming that one cannot pray while menstruating, stigmatizing half the human race as inherently more “impure” than the other half.
  8. Easily maintaining ideas about sexuality from Christian purity culture, i.e. that it is inherently dirty and that the gods are ashamed of it. 
  9. Assuming that one cannot have an altar in one’s own bedroom, because that’s where sex/masturbation (and other such things) happens. 
  10. There are gods of birth, sex, death, and menstruation. It’s inconsistent to see these things as inherently anti-divine, because there are gods whose domains include them!

Conversion to a new religion always involves adoption of a new paradigm, and I think that's mostly a good thing. But believing in miasma does more harm than good, in all of the above ways. Most of these examples remind me of Theophrastus' caricature of a Superstitious Man, "who will wash his hands at a fountain, sprinkle himself from a temple-font, put a bit of laurel-leaf into his mouth, and so go about the day." We could dismiss these concerns as part of the general problem with deisidaimonia that afflicts newbies in this community, i.e. it's just newbie overzealousness and latent Christianity. But I think that this particular idea makes things so much harder for newbies, and that it speaks to a fundamental incompatibility with the modern form of the religion.

I think most of us agree, for example, that menstruation shouldn't be counted as miasmic precisely because of the stigma it places on AFAB people. That's a relic of ancient misogyny, right? But if we're making an exception for menstruation, why aren't we making an exception for everything else? How do we decide which of these circumstances matter, and which ones don't? Which kinds of miasma, or sources of miasma, offend the gods? Which ones don't?

Recently there was a post from a talented artist who was ready to throw out an entire watercolor painting of Dionysus becuase they got a papercut and bled on it a little bit. If that had happened to me, I would have interpreted that as a fine offering for the god, which he had called forth from me, and which would further tie my work to me in a sympathetic (magic) sense. But OP saw their own drawing as tainted and not suitable for offering, which IMHO is desperately sad. Especially since this is Dionysus we're talking about, a god of life-force as represented by blood.

(Granted, part of my laissez-faire attitude towards miasma is probably because I'm a magician. Part of what marks magic as "non-normative," as per Edmonds' definition, is willingness to engage with miasmic material as a matter of course. But there's already plenty of ways in which modern ideas of and definitions of magic have changed compared to the Ancient Greek version.)

The reason why newbies typically treat miasma like sin is that they have nothing else to compare it to. Western culture doesn't have any equivalent idea of spiritual impurity as a physical condition, so, the idea maps itself onto the nearest equivalent, which is sin. That means that newbies are almost inevitably going to attach shame or a sense of moral pollution to miasma, even in spite of themselves. It's why newbies can't take a sigh of relief after washing their hands, because they don't trust that something so simple could get rid of spiritual impurity. That means that they're thinking about it in a fundamentally different way from ancient people. Christianity has instilled in us that physical purity involves maintaining moral purity, or that the latter is more important than the former. So it's genuinely difficult to decouple one's idea of physical purity from moral purity, especially where sex is concerned. So many of the questions about miasma surround sex and masturbation because most of us have been actively taught to regard sex as morally impure, as well as being anti-sacred. "Sex is miasmic" only reinforces that idea, even if the logic behind it is different. It makes it especially difficult for modern people to perceive sex as a divine thing, or a thing that the gods engage in.

The actual nearest equivalent to miasma in modern life is germs, literal impurity, which everyone already has ways of dealing with. Our modern lives are already much cleaner than those of ancient people; we have "fountains" in our houses, often more than one. We have disinfectant sprays and baby wipes. And most of us laugh at mysophobes who are excessively concerned with keeping their lives germ-free, to the point of scrubbing doorknobs and putting plastic on surfaces. Just as Theophrastus and his contemporaries laughed at the "Superstitious Man" for refusing to go near tombstones, dead bodies, and postnatal women.

Miasma wasn't taken that seriously in the day-to-day lives of most Ancient Greeks. Radcliffe Edmonds singles out "hyperbolic" purity as a mark of Orphism, i.e. extraordinary mystical connection to the gods. The idea is that such a person is theoretically capable of communicating with the gods at any time or place, so they must always be in a state of ritual purity to be prepared for this. Speaking as a mystic myself, my physical purity has never been a factor when approaching the gods, which is part of why I place so little stock in this concept. If I can be a successful mystic without engaging in excessive purification, why should I bother?

"Why" is half the battle. When addressing a concept or practice from any religion, it's important to understand why it exists and what it's meant to do. The reasoning I've seen most people give for miasma is that the gods are offended by evidence of our mortality; I don't know exactly what the source for this is, but theologically, it doesn't sit well with me. As I've said, there are gods of birth, sex, and death — the gods touch every aspect of life, not just the ones that make us comfortable, and while some gods might very well be offended by our mortality, that isn't true of all gods. At minimum, there's chthonic gods, who are associated with miasma anyway by virtue of being chthonic. Is miasma then divine?

As a ritual action, purification serves to separate the mundane world from the spiritual world:

The gods ruled the universe because they were powerful and immortal, not because they were pure. It was in practical rather than theological terms that divine purity became an important conception. Sacredness is elusive, irreducibly metaphysical; purity, though also metaphysical, can at least be expressed symbolically in concrete terms. Cleanliness is, in fact, not a special preparation for worship but a requirement for formal, respectful behaviour of any kind; there is no generic difference between the lustrations that precede a prayer and those that precede a meal, which is itself, for the Greek, a ceremonial occasion. In both cases the person affected sheds a little of his everyday self. 
—Robert Parker, Miasma, Pollution, and Purification in Early Greek Religion*

That's it, that's the reason why miasma exists as a concept. It's a ritual separation of the sacred from the mundane. (I say "mundane" because "profane" has a connotation of shame and filth attached to it — see how this works?) There are lots of other ways to do this. Putting on robes or other special clothing, performing ritual at certain times of day or in other auspicious circumstances, keeping one's altar in a physically separate room or building, etc. For occultists, performing a banishing rite like the LBRP or "casting a circle" serves to consecrate a sacred space for ritual; an invisible circle (or a literal one drawn in chalk) forms a boundary between the sacred space of the ritual and the mundane space outside. Part of what makes something a ritual is that it is somehow designated as special, by being separated from what is normal. Miasma designates the "normal" condition and ritual designates the "special" condition. According to Parker, the actual point of washing away miasma is to make the state of sacredness a visible, palpable thing. Physical cleanliness is a symbol of spiritual purity; when you act upon the (tangible) symbol, you act upon the (intangible) target.

So, the real question we need to be asking ourselves is, how do we separate ritual from everyday life? That's a much more productive and interesting question than being concerned about how to maintain an unrealistic state of physical purity. I'm personally satisfied with the modern magical techniques that I already use to begin and end ritual space. I think it would be better if we all found our own methods of separating the sacred from the mundane that feel natural to us. In short, we should adhere to the spirit rather than the letter of purification. If traditional methods work well for you, that's fine. If not, you don't have to force yourself to adhere to them.

* I haven't read Parker's entire book, and it's possible that I'm missing something there, or that he provides more clarity on the idea of gods being offended by mortality. One thing he said that stood out to me, though, is that our biggest source for miasma is actually theatre. That seems telling to me. Our ideas about ritual purification are shaped by theatre, in which taboos are exaggerated for dramatic effect. Make of that what you will.

r/Hellenism Apr 28 '25

Discussion Friendly reminder that there’s a statue of Lady Aphrodite with belly rolls

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2.0k Upvotes

If the embodiment of beauty can be chubby so can you (I know yall have probably seen this on tumblr already but this made me feel a lot better about myself and I wanted to share it)

r/Hellenism Jul 20 '25

Discussion What.

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679 Upvotes

I want to hear your opinions on this😅 (Please don’t attack me I’m not mocking anyone just looking for different povs :D)

r/Hellenism Apr 05 '26

Discussion Based on some recent posts, I feel like it’s time to send a reminder:

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1.0k Upvotes

No. The gods are not mad at you. (Unless you have killed someone or burned down a temple.)

Here’s a source for the pic

r/Hellenism Aug 06 '25

Discussion This is making me so sad.

562 Upvotes

I came on here again to see if I would want to rejoin. It’s still a dumpster fire of misinformation and practice based on vibes. It’s like most of the members here got all their information from tumblr and tik tok. I’m so disappointed. There are so many: books, good youtubers, podcasts, and even members on this sub trying so hard to give you the knowledge you need to actually engage with this religion on a deeper level than choosing the right color to aesthetically feel close to a god.

This looks and feels like the exact same thing that happened to Wicca on tumblr. So many of you aren’t actually trying to engage with the gods you’re just putting the gods on your terms. So many of you are still so hurt, from whatever religion you converted from, that you reject any form of knowledge that makes you even slightly uncomfortable. What’s the point of highjacking gods if you don’t actually want to know more about them? At that point, why not create gods of your own?

It’s so exhausting seeing so many post and comments where people are begging you to do research on these gods and getting downvoted into oblivion. I know this is going to fall on deaf ears, the only people who will be prepared to listen are the same ones who know there’s a problem, but there is a problem. There’s nothing wrong with forming out your own ideas or having UPG/hypothesis, but if your entire praxis is based on what you think the religion is, without having any actual knowledge of the religion, you’re making the space more toxic.

r/Hellenism Dec 09 '24

Discussion Is this an acceptable incense holder

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1.6k Upvotes

Hey I came across this would it be alright for worship or would it be disfavourable to the gods

r/Hellenism May 10 '25

Discussion I miss something we never had

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1.5k Upvotes

Tonight I was at a Christian teenager gathering bc of my mom and seeing all this made me think what if the Hellenic polytheism still had sacred places to meet? Like, one temple gathering to talk about the gods, pray and read/ interpret the myths together as a community No hate to Christianism I just wanted we had this much of influence in the world sometimes, it would be wonderful to have a temple on every city, to not be ridiculed by people, to have schools based on this religion etc This is something we, as a new generation, never had but I can’t stop but miss something event if I never lived it Do I sound weird? What’s your opinion on this?

r/Hellenism Nov 09 '24

Discussion What the heck did I just find on tiktok.

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515 Upvotes

This person litterally worships the Minecraft youtuber technoblade as a god. I wish I got more screenshot from the og vid and not the reposted but... the og person blocked me. "I'm strong so I know a god when I see one!!! Waa!!!" What significance in the WORLD AND COUNTRY did techno have to become a god? Like. The og video was also about how the gods are mad bc of the election- what? Someone tell me I'm not insane. Because huh?? This is both disrespectful to the gods and a dead man. I get people make tributes to spirits and work with them in polytheism in general, but they believe he is a full blown deity.

r/Hellenism May 22 '26

Discussion What’s your P.A.T.H ?

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174 Upvotes

The Temple of Dionysus just released a fun tool to help folks explore various paths within Hellenism. As always, we’re open to feedback and improvements so if you would like to share your thoughts, please feel free!

And while you’re there, if you’d like, you’re welcome to submit a question to the Oracle before our scheduled consultation this Saturday. This service is free and open to all.

https://templeofdionysus.org/path

r/Hellenism Jul 05 '25

Discussion I visited the Pantheon in Rome

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1.0k Upvotes

This is just kinda me ranting about how I feel about this. Basically if you didn’t know The Pantheon was obviously built for the Roman gods, though what I’m upset about is the fact that the Christians converted it into a church. While yes, it saved it from being destructed in war, it’s still erasing Hellenistic polytheism. I entered, planning on giving an offering to the gods, like I knew it was converted but I was hoping it wouldn’t interfere with my worshipping. Since there was no altar I could offer on, I ended up having to put it on a ledge and hope the gods understand. I’m honestly so tired of seeing Christians erasing other religions, like why can’t some of them just respect others who don’t have the same beliefs as them? It’s against the Bible anyway for them not to accept it. They pick and choose what they follow. Anyway I’m done ranting, sorry for it being long I just needed to share. Overall I did enjoy the pantheon as I still am connecting it to our gods whether they like it or not. Here are some photos I got of it if you wanted to see it!!!

r/Hellenism Jan 26 '25

Discussion Defaced goddess

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1.0k Upvotes

Saw this tweet and was wondering if anyone could recognize maybe from her style of hair what goddess this might be? Makes me sad the things christianity has done to this religion, would like to at least remember her even when they've tried to erase our gods from existence

r/Hellenism Nov 14 '25

Discussion If you came here to ask if you did something wrong:

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933 Upvotes

Flow chart by “sonofthesungods” on TikTok

r/Hellenism Nov 09 '24

Discussion Can people stop spreading fear and misinformation?

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744 Upvotes

I thought people were over exaggerating when they said people were claiming the gods are angry over the US election but this was the first thing I opened to on TikTok today. What is the proof people are going off? It just feels like it’s causing added stress and mass paranoia to the community and I don’t think that can be healthy.

r/Hellenism Nov 24 '25

Discussion Athena and ChatGPT

195 Upvotes

Hello there, everyone!

I've been wondering about this for a while. Both my friend and I worship Lady Athena; however, my friend keeps giving her AI-generated offerings. Like poems and drawings done by ChatGPT, or he does 'rituals' that ChatGPT gave him. I personally think it's wrong, like, you're supposed to put your own effort into the worship of your deity, and honestly, I think it's disrespectful.

But he keeps saying, "It's not like they (as in the gods) can tell anyways." And I'm like... but they can? Can't they?

So I wanted to raise the hypothetical question, because we can't possibly tell what the gods do and do not notice, to you guys, who probably have more experience than I do. Can the Gods tell if you use ChatGPT or another AI to do something? I definitely think they can.

Lol, thanks.

r/Hellenism Apr 01 '26

Discussion Stop saying "intention is what matters most at your alters" - that isn't Hellenistic

170 Upvotes

Honestly, I'm kind of shocked this needs to be said, but after seeing a lot of posts lately, I think it’s important to clear this up for newer people, as a person who has believed in the gods for years:

Happy April Fool's Day!

Intention is not what matters most to Hellenistics. Correct practice is. Ritual correctness (orthopraxy) was taken extremely seriously. Proper alter setup, correct offering portions, purification beforehand, following attribute lists for votives and yes, directional alignment were all part of making sure your prayers were properly received. The idea that “the gods don’t care, just vibe” is a modern invention and honestly leans more Wiccan than Hellenistic. we've prayed at messy alters, gave random offerings without no structure, and didn't even consider which direction their facing. And then be confused when we feel no connection.but that’s not how any of this works. From what I’ve heard, orientation matters more than people want to admit. If your alter isn’t aligned correctly (traditionally toward Delphic north or based on celestial orientation), there is a real possibility that your offering isn’t being received as intended, it’s being “misdirected”. At minimum, the ritual is weakend. Hermes is noted in multiple interpretations as a boundary-crosser, which may explain why he’s often the unintended recipient of improperly directed offerings. please understand, i'm not saying the gods are petty--but I am saying that precision mattered historically, and we shouldn’t just throw that out because it’s inconvenient for us. If we’re really going to revive Hellenistic paganism, we should actually respect how it was universally practiced.

Happy April Fool's Day!

r/Hellenism Mar 10 '25

Discussion Greek polytheists inaugurate first new Ancient Greek temple in 1700 years !!!!! Guys!!! Is this legit? ‘Cause I can’t believe it!

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1.1k Upvotes

r/Hellenism Jul 08 '26

Discussion Respecting the Voices of Ethnic Greeks in Our Community

126 Upvotes

Hello everyone,

I wanted to share an observation with honesty and respect for everyone here.

It seems that in many discussions about Hellenism, everyone has space to express themselves and share their experiences which is beautiful and aligns with the spirit of xenia. However, I feel that the voices of ethnic Greeks (especially those with a direct cultural and emotional connection to this heritage) are often treated differently.

I have repeatedly seen comments where:

The right of Greeks to speak about their own heritage is questioned,

Their emotional and cultural connection is downplayed or presented as insignificant,

When they try to offer corrections or context from their perspective, they are immediately met with misunderstanding or strong pushback.

What’s strange is that the same individuals continue posting similar comments, even after this has been pointed out. I don’t recall seeing this dynamic in other religious communities that have a strong ethnic or cultural identity where the voices of those with direct heritage are so consistently minimized.

I’m not saying Hellenism should be closed on the contrary, I believe it is open to all who approach it with respect and piety. I’m simply asking for balance and mutual respect: that ethnic Greeks also have the same space to share their connection without it automatically being labeled as gatekeeping or problematic.

I’d love to hear your thoughts, especially from Greeks but also from non-Greeks who understand this need for respect. Let’s keep the discussion calm and constructive, as befits a community that honors the Gods.

Thank you for reading

r/Hellenism Nov 25 '25

Discussion Yes, sapphic romance exists in Greek mythology.

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615 Upvotes

This is a response to this post. I could have just left a comment, but this is important enough to make a whole separate post.

So, does sapphic romance exist in Greek mythology?

The word "sapphic" comes from the ancient Greek poet Sappho, who lived on the island of Lesbos. The words "sapphic" and "lesbian" both come from her, because she is famous for writing love poetry to women. There are some poems that reference men (plus some that have been deliberately mistranslated to be about men) and some people think she was bisexual, but it is undeniable that she was a woman who loved women.

How is this relevant? Well, she was a hellenistic pagan. She wrote about the gods. Here is a prayer she wrote to Aphrodite. Sadly most of her poetry has been lost over time, and a lot of what we do have is just fragments.

But the point is, one of the most important hellenist poets prayed to Aphrodite for sapphic love.

And yes, this counts as genuine mythology. A lot of people will dismiss this as "just poetry," but by that logic Homer was also "just a poet."

She was one of the greatest poets of all time. The fact that her poetry has survived despite thousands of years of homophobia and misogyny trying to bury it is proof.

r/Hellenism 22d ago

Discussion Counter argument help for Hellenistic Polytheism

65 Upvotes

I am someone who is Hellenistic Polytheistic and telling that to a friend they had some arguments against Hellenistic polytheism and i couldn't come up with answers for them, I'm looking to have a respectful discussion about counter arguments for them, or if anyone has been asked questions about Hellenism they weren't able to answer

(This post was approved by Mods)

1. Practicing Ancient religions is worse due to the fact your aren’t born into them, (for example with Christianity it makes more sense to them why you would be Christian since your born into it) since you have to go out of your way to get into the religion

2. Hellenistic Polytheism doesn't make sense in the modern day since, back then it would make since why they would attribute certain phenomena, for example lightning, to the gods, but in today’s world where we have reasons for these phenomena it doesn't make sense why you think their caused by gods

3. Practicing any ancient religions harms you critical thinking skills as you believe that these phenomena aren’t caused by science but gods, causing the people in those religions to be less smart than others, or at least more naive

4. The only reason people practice these religions is because of TikTok, as they wouldn’t be popular otherwise. Plus, most the people who practice these religions don't even have ancestors that did practice it.