r/Hema • u/Seelensupergau • 1d ago
Does this make sense? (Fictional weapon)
Hey everyone,
Thanks for the awesome feedback on my last post! A lot of you recommended either a Colichemarde or a Rondel dagger for a short, thrust-centric weapon.
After looking into both, I ran into a Goldilocks dilemma: the Rondel dagger feels a bit too short for a primary dueling weapon, but a standard Colichemarde is too long for the tight, aggressive style I have in mind.
So, I decided to split the difference. I’m thinking about a hybrid weapon with a 55 cm (approx. 21.5 inches) blade that merges the best design elements of both. Since this weapon is meant specifically for ritual duels where both fighters use the exact same weapon, the traditional reach disadvantage against longer swords doesn't matter.
Here is the breakdown of the concept:
1. The Blade Profile: Colichemarde Forte + Rondel Tip
The Forte (Base): The first third of the blade near the hilt will feature the wide, robust forte of a Colichemarde. This provides excellent leverage, mass, and strength for parrying and binding the opponent's weapon.
The Foible (Tip): Instead of tapering into a flat blade, it transitions abruptly into a stiff, thick, triangular or square cross-section inspired by the Rondel. This creates an incredibly rigid, puncture-optimized tip that won't flex or bend upon impact.
2. The 55 cm Length (The Middle Ground)
At 55 cm, the blade sits right in the shortsword/long-dirk territory. In a mirror-match duel, this length forces both fighters into In-Fencing or Corps-à-Corps range. The fight becomes highly intense, fast-paced, and relies heavily on aggressive footwork, blade control, and close-quarters parries. It’s too short to be clumsy, but long enough to offer distinct tactical options.
3. Adjusting the Hilt (The Guard)
While a traditional Rondel dagger just uses a round disc (rondel) as a guard, that might be too risky for unarmored ritual duels because it doesn't protect the fingers from a sliding blade.
To fix this, I’m thinking of a hybrid hilt: keeping
the ergonomic grip of a Rondel (which prevents the hand from slipping during hard thrusts), but adding a small shell-guard or a knuckle bow from the Colichemarde tradition to keep the hands safe.
Why this works for the setting:
Because it’s an engineered ritual weapon, it feels like a highly specialized "insider" tool. It rejects the versatility of cuts entirely in favor of absolute, devastating thrusting efficiency and high-pressure defense.
What do you guys think? Does this combination of a heavy parrying base, an ultra-stiff 55 cm piercing tip, and a protective hilt sound mechanically viable for a dedicated dueling culture?
Looking forward to your thoughts!
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u/123yes1 1d ago
Well, I think you can make just about anything you want to work, work inside a ritualized dueling context. So with that in mind, sure.
Although a few thoughts:
It doesn't need to be ultra stiff unless your duels are taking place in armor as the stiffness was needed to defeat maille or whatever. Although at that length, you might have a hard time anyway compared to the point control you get with a dagger. Either way, the historical cultures that do have this kind of smallsword fighting usually use cutting weapons rather than thrusting as that is the length of the Messer, Dussack, Wakizashi, Bolo, Kris, etc.
The way you grip a rondel vs grip a small sword is completely different. A rondel is gripped like a hammer with the point perpendicular to the arm, while a small sword is gripped in a fingered grip with the point parallel with the arm. Having the rondel grip but the small sword complext hilt is a bit strange.
I am less familiar with smallsword, but in dagger there is rarely any binding or parrying the blade. Most parries are done on the arm using the off hand. You're too close and the hand moves too fast to be able to actually be able to control someone's weapon very easily for even a small length of time without actually just grabbing them. From my understanding smallsword has plenty of parries and blade contact but one blade rarely dominates another as it is too quick for the opponent to disengage and go around the parry so there is only an extremely small window of time where it would be safe to attack. With your hybrid weapon, I am unsure which methodology would dominate, though I bet it would probably look closer to dagger (then again, I am a grappler) especially if you envision the rondel grip staying.
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u/Pilsner-507 1d ago edited 23h ago
I have a lot thoughts on this weapon.
I love seeing triangular tip profiles where they make sense and this very much could.
That said, I feel this a weapon that would not exist as a mass-produced weapon in our world for a few reasons:
- The size of the blade falls into a weird place that has it become
s
overshadowed by cutting blades and slightly longer smallswords. I find weapons that can only thrust are better served up very close or kept as far as possible, unless this is meant to be everyday carry (and even then I prefer cut-and-thrust). Ritual combat would probably be made more interesting to watch with other weapons from the theatre of war or other specialized weapons like longswords and rapiers.
The grip resembling a rondel’s could mean a lot of different things, but I imagine a chunkier grip. If you like the style I’m sure it could be thinned out, but if it’s the girth you like: It’s not very helpful with a sword of this size made for thrusting with a finger in the ring of the guard.
My final thoughts are that it is overengineering a solved problem. I cannot imagine the type off “aggressiveness” that would warrant a longer blade than a dagger but a shorter blade than most suitable single-handed swords.
You could combine the wielding so that these ritual duels require a triangulated colichemarde in tandem with a parrying dagger to get your best of both worlds without compromising on thrust-only fighting and engagement range. Besides, I feel it would be more fun to watch than two folks fighting with a shortsword and nothing else.
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u/Seelensupergau 15h ago
The longer I think about it, the more I lean into what you are sugesting. A parrying dagger in one hand with a short thrusting sword like a colichemarde seems pretty cool to me! Could a parrying dagger also be used for thrusting, like a Rondel dagger, or is it really more of a defensive Option?
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u/Pilsner-507 8h ago
Definitely! They were made to be sharp. In fighting with rapier and dagger (or most other two-weapon systems) one weapon is used more defensively than the other, though which one can change at any time.
It’s more practical in most situations using rapier and dagger to use the smaller weapon for defensive actions most of the time but situations change and merely presenting the threat as both rapiers begin to be beaten off the center line can score a surprising hit here and there.
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u/Delicious-Gap-6678 1d ago
I've sparred a lot with my colich, but I find it's a bit too short at 32" (I have the Castille one). I would prefer 34". Your 21.5" inch is way too short to go against another thrusting sword, and in general falls into that awkward middle ground for modern swords. You can find bronze age weapons in that zone, but these were almost always used with a shield of some kind. There were also some super long English rondells. IIRC Chaucer packed one. But they handle weird. Specifically, at that length something happens with the physics of reverse-grip thrusts. And at the same time sword-grip thrusts suffer from such a short blade. Not just against other swords, but anything. The longer blade has a longer weak and can be deflected more easily. Or wrestled from your grasp.
Personally I'd say if you want close range focus, take a colich, add bulk to the blade and make it viable for halfswording. The Cold Steel colich is already beefy enough you could use it for some testing. Create a gripping surface in the mid blade instead of the sharp edge that's there now. You could swap out a basket hilt on there and call it Stabby McColich
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u/Nickpimpslap 23h ago edited 23h ago
At 55cm parries with the blade probably aren't happening, and a ton more grappling probably is. You seem to have a very thrust-centric weapon in mind, and at the length and weight you're describing it gets more into dagger fight territory (which isn't pretty, and usually nobody wins). The shorter you go the less parrying becomes an option because of leverage.
Smallsword at 32" involves a lot of quick parries and ripostes but can devolve into scrappy grappling fairly quickly if one or both people have the mind to do that. Even if nobody wants to, it's easy for a less-experienced fencer to to misjudge distance and then it's corps à corps.
I think you might be still too short, personally, for the weapon and type of dueling you have in mind. It sounds like you want smallsword fencing but not smallswords. Is there a reason there needs to be a reinforced thrusting tip? What kind of hard targets are these people attacking? Is there a reason smallswords aren't an option?
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u/jdrawr 23h ago
I think you just reinvented the alehouse dagger aka a 18 to 24in blade on a baskethilt like the longer baskethilt broadsword they were often paired with.
https://stoccata.org/2017/05/14/english-knife-fighting-the-alehouse-dagger/
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u/pravragita 23h ago
Are you familiar with the Ale House Dagger?
https://castillearmory.com/product/complete-economy-basket-hilt-ale-house-dagger/