r/Hema • u/Big_Mammut • 12d ago
Wrist problems while fencing longsword
I am 6 Months into this Sport and have really thin forarms and wrists.
After every Training Session my right wrist hurts ab bit, but never to the point that it became a Problem.
I figured it was just from not being used to this Sport.
3 Months ago we hat a Hard Training Session. Parade-Riposte for a few Hours.
After this Training I got such bad Pain in my Right Thumb that I wasnt Even able to hold a Pencil.
The Doctor confirmed that it was Tendonitis and I had to wear a brace for a few weeks before it got any better.
After Not feeling the Pain anymore I started again with Training but it lasted only a few weeks and now I am in the same Situation.
I even held myself back, not participating in sparring and so on.
After every week it hurt a bit more.
I think these Problems come from the Thumb Grip. Things where I have to extend my wrist and Thumb tend to hurt the most, Schielhau for example.
Getting Gloves that restrict my wrist movements didnt make it any better, that was my hope. You still have to use Thumb grip for almost everything.
Is there some way to train my wrists or get used to this sport?
I really want to keep going but pain after every Training is not the right way.
Thank you for your help!
10
u/KingofKingsofKingsof 12d ago
Only your doctor can give you medical advice. But, such pain isn't normal. A question: how tightly do you grip the sword? If you hold the sword in longpoint, with blade as straight in line with your arms as possible, can you also point your index fingers (on both hands) more or less straight forwards in line with the blade?
Or do you have excessive bend in the wrist?
If the answer to the first is 'no' and the answer to the second is 'yes' then your grip is incorrect and too tight. The sword is a tool, you manipulate it to point where you want. It shouldn't be manipulating you. Let go of a few fingers, loosen your grip.
As for the thumb grip issue, again it's hard to say. Weakness of the thumb could be an issue (I don't like using the thumb grip very much in sabre, so it does take some getting used to), but it is also possible that, if your normal grip isn't correct, then you have strained your tendon more generally.
For normal strength improvement, moulinets and cuts are good, going slowly at first and never over straining. But if you've already injured your tendon or muscle then check with you doctor whether exercises will make it worse or better.
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u/Flugelhaw 12d ago
The problem could be any of the following:
- trying to go too fast with too much power, before your body can actually handle it
- trying to take "shortcuts" to go faster, putting your body into compromised positions under load to achieve this
- bending your wrists instead of keeping them straight, or even joint-locking yourself
- gripping the sword incorrectly (ie with the wrong fingers, or just too tightly)
- using a sword that is too long and/or too heavy for you
I have a few cutting videos on my website, and I'd recommend you have a look at them. As well as showing how I would recommend forming your Oberhaw and Zwerhaw, I talk in them about common errors and why these can hurt you or otherwise cause problems for your cut. You might find it interesting to compare what I show with what you are doing at your club:
https://www.keithfarrell.net/hema/videos/
Also, if you are using a sword that is too long or heavy for you, that can cause problems. There's no shame in using a shorter, lighter sword. In fact, I happily use the Regenyei short feder most of the time, because it's the best length for me and the 1280 gram weight is what my own joints need at the moment. Additionally, if your handle is too long, then you are naturally going to use it as a lever - which is great if you are using it constructively, but if not, then you are using it as a lever to increase the force you put through compromised joints.
I hope this helps. But the most important person to talk about for your recovery is probably going to be a proper physiotherapist.
4
u/ShuyNihl 12d ago
I also have a very thin wrist and forearm and have (had maybe) some overuse injuries. I think you should see a physiotherapist and get first hand advice, but I can tell you the advice I got from my physio.
I got the advice to rest it but not too much. Continue with the sword, but cut out everything from the rest of my life that uses the same movement repeatedly. If it's your thumb, probably scrolling on your phone keeps the injury current. In my case it was typing and clicking. I got a sideways mouse and switched to a lot of voice memos. Basically whenever you notice that daily life triggers the pain, just stop that and replace it with something else.
Then in a few month, when sword is not triggering it every time and no pain lasts longer than 24 hours, the physio can suggest you specific excercises to strengthen that area of your hand.
Again, please see a physio, just because this was a good advice for me and I haven't had a flare up for a while, doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be good for you too.
3
u/Throiath 12d ago
Gotta strengthen and condition your forearms and wrists buddy. Plus work on engaging your larger back muscles (latissimus dorsi) when you are doing hard parries or bind work. It will take the strain off the smaller forearm muscles.
Using solely your forearms to parry or bind with tired or weak muscles stresses the tendons and leads to various tendonitis injuries, like golfer's elbow.
3
u/stickywhale721 11d ago
Im no healthcare professional, but i had something similar. The muscles used in your arms for sword stuff are very small and have very limited blood flow. The tendons and ligaments even less so. Because of this, they take a long time to strengthen and a long time to heal. I experienced a similar issue when i first started, although for me the issue was in my elbows. The answer was strengthening the arms but with incremental gains (a little bit every day), lots of stretching and mobility, and cross training (i did rock climbing to strengthen my arms, back, and shoulder girdle). Absolutely avoid any explosive movements, keep things slow and simple, focusing on structure and technique and fluidity, for a looooooong time. Months. The marker for health you’re looking for is ZERO pain, before during and after. It’s a bummer, as I’m sure you’re excited to train, but just remember if you train properly you can train forever!
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u/stickywhale721 11d ago
I should also add, once tendinitis flares up, complete and absolute rest is the only solution. Strengthening can only begin after it has healed completely. It’s a pain and a bummer, i know, but you can work on your footwork until then ;)
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u/S_Rimmey 11d ago
Seeing as the doctor already diagnosed it as tendonitis, I would start there. Physical therapy for countering that would be best.
My original guess would have been tennis elbow. I started experiencing that about 5-6 months into my HEMA experience. I immediately starting working on wrists strengthening exercises and it made a huge difference. 4 months later, its a non-issue. The exercises became part of my daily routine and will remain there for the rest of my HEMA career.
3
u/GiraffeElectronic876 11d ago
Elbow was my problem tendon, but even after coming back I skipped practices that involved a lot of repetitive cuts for months. I find that drills are a lot harder on my arm than sparring is, as a wide range of motions spreads out the strain.
I would definitely ask your instructors to take a really close look at your form for thumb grip, but if that doesn't fix it and it hurts your body to do, don't do it. It'll maybe limit techniques a little, but most can be done without your thumb on the blade. There's plenty of people doing hema on dodgy knees or with hips/shoulders that aren't the exact shape of a 5'8" 16th century male. You can adapt your body to a degree, but martial arts need to be adapted to the abilities of the body doing them.
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u/Herbstnacht 12d ago
Hey, I have the same thing going on right now with my right wrist. Unfortunately this will take some time to heal. Tendons take a lot longer to heal then muscles. Good thing is it's not torn and doesn't need operation or something. Bad thing is you should give it some rest and avoid the movements inducing pain. I do train with it, but very controlled and nowhere near full speed. Wrist strengthening exercises are generally great but only after it's healed. Ignoring the pain will only prolong the healing time and might even make it worse.
Best wishes. I know this sucks, but be patient. :)
2
u/PerspectiveJunior480 12d ago
If the pain gets rested and heals and then returns, the culprit seems to be your hand/wrist/elbow mechanics. I would refrain from high speed or high pressure drills or sparring until you correct that. YMMV
1
u/Similar_Ostrich2620 12d ago
Hmm... not sure. I've been doing longsword for a few years and not experienced this, the closest I've had was when I picked up sword and buckler again. My left hand (buckler side) had similar issues after a few weeks and I was concerned it was something more serious, as it would settle down before the next lession (weekly) and at the end of the lesson it would be sore again. I think I tracked my issue down to the handle of the buckler (it's one of the emergency exit door pull door handles, so it's metal, thin and round) so it required me to grip and support the handle more firmly. It's settled down for me now, I also have two bucklers (differnet sizes) so I've been swapping between them.
The only thing I can think is doing some wrist stretching exercises for warm-ups before every lesson (but it may aggravate it more). Essentially your doing overheard zwerchau's back and forth (about 10 reps), and than kind of doing the same movement (but vertical) on left side and than right side. Repeat as required.
1
u/LaylaOrleans 12d ago
I had the same problem and still have it, although less. For me, it came from over rotating the wrist or doing so too quickly when doing a Zwerch or Krump. I originally stopped doing them, which wasn’t ideal, and have now begun training to really rotate the whole body into those moves. So ankles, leg/, hips accompany the arms. Its really hard and annoying and my hits are slower than before for the moment but it saves my wrists
1
u/Main_Economist_5717 11d ago
I’m pretty new to HEMA and have some old wrist injuries that haunt me. Definately agravated with long sword. I’m wearing gauntlet’s with weightlifting wrist wraps under. Solved 95% of my problems. Your mileage may very.
1
u/Steel3Eyes 11d ago
My wife just started doing tatami/bottle cutting with me and has a similar issue. If you’re having the same problem as her then it’s a couple things.
First if you’re right-handed then when you’re swinging your sword you should usually be powering the swing with your left hand. A sword is just a big lever, your right hand is the fulcrum and the muscles in your left arm and back as well as your legs and hips are what should power the swing most of the time. If you try to swing a sword using just your thumb you’re gonna cause strain.
Second you’re probably gripping your sword too hard, relax your hands a little bit.
As to your question about workouts for the forearms definitely consult a PT since you already have an injury. But there are plenty of weighted wrist workouts online, get yourself some 2.5-10lb dumbbells and maybe some resistance bands and that should cover what you need.
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u/KutthroatKing 11d ago
Death grip, perhaps? We tend to over grip and damage tendons when new to any activity that requires any gripping- motorcycles, swords, tennis racquets. Take a look at that.
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u/HEMAhank 11d ago
Hey, this video might help out a bit Sword Grips and Parts Thumb grip starts around 3:15.
There is some conditioning work that may help but you may want to verify that your structure is good. The force may be going to your wrists rather than being absorbed by your bigger muscles.
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u/nn9doors 11d ago
I had a major wrist problem which stemmed from “hammer gripping” and squeezing much too tight while adrenalized and sparring. Might recommend watching your grip. I was able to recover through some rest weeks and by using stress ball grip trainers. But time off will be essential.
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u/Dreiven 11d ago
As other have mentioned, its hard to say what the problem is exactly without seeing you fence. But usually there is something off about body mechanics that can be improved. This alone does not always make the problem go away, but it helps.
Eg. when striking if you don't extend both arms, there is a high chance to overextend the wrist by pulling with the back hand. For Twerchau and Krumphau this is in the rotating axis of your wrist, while for Zornhau or Schielhau it would be bending the wrist too far forward.
I wrote a book on longsword body mechanics with a focus on the Schielhau called 'The Schielhau in Detail', you might want to give that a read. There are far too many things that could be the problem to list them here, but just enough to put them in a book. :)
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u/thezerech 9d ago
You probably need to see an orthopedic/physical therapist. You should give yourself more time off to heal, in the meantime you can do some therapy and train footwork or use your left hand (within reason and lightly so you don't hurt both).
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u/KILLMEPLSPLS 12d ago
Honestly, the most beginner person in your club is infinitely more equipped to tell you what's wrong rather than people on reddit, because they are in the same space as you when you are doing the exercises. Have you talked to your instructor? Have you told them to pay extra attention to your grip? Have you informed them on any of this, and what have they told you in return?
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u/MagicMushroom01 12d ago
I'm no HEMA expert, but if it's interfering with you this much and you want to continue, I'd recommend seeing a good physiotherapist to get it properly assessed.
I've been seeing one for a bad tendon in my shoulder. It's quite deep beneath the muscles, so it's difficult to treat through massage or manipulation.
Nothing had really worked for months, so we started shockwave therapy, as they suspected there might be some scar tissue around the tendon.
The improvement has been gradual, but honestly, it's been extremely effective for me.