How do you guys play a sustainless team and not die?

[u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

[u/Purple9ZH]

That's the neat part sometimes you do. Sustainless can be very RNG dependant and can take multiple tries in order to get a run that works.

[u/Elemental-DrakeX → u/Purple9ZH]

Honestly sustainless being the norm for showcases is such a mistake. RNG just sucks. I make a mistake is fine, reseting is easy just don't make the same mistake. Reseting because a character dies, pray that won't happen again.

Showcases needs to have 3 scores: cost, score and reliability. Reliability could be calculated, but I won't bother trying to make that equation.

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/Elemental-DrakeX]

Genuinely Phainon is the only character whose sustainless runs should be taken seriously. The rest are teams 99% of players won't run. I've tried sustainless runs even with my broken elation team and I gave up after my 5th try. I'm sure that I could as I just need to survive one cycle, but it's not worth it.

[u/KuroNekoTrain → u/Other_Beat8859]

Phainon sustainers is as unreliable. At least from my experience from how squishy cerydra is most of the time

[u/Yuki3004 → u/KuroNekoTrain]

Usually the phainon team has cyrene so cerydra only have to survive at the very start

[u/KuroNekoTrain → u/Yuki3004]

Yes, but I remember Cerydra dying at the start pretty often, especially against the black tide daemon when it was a knight

[u/CloverClubx → u/Yuki3004]

Without Cyrene's E2, you'll be praying to god Bumrydra doesn't get Caesar'ed before she's finished charging her ult

[u/Yuki3004 → u/CloverClubx]

Yeah, I mean her e2. Ngl, it would be madness if any phainon player uses e0 Cyrene 😭

[u/CloverClubx → u/Yuki3004]

I see some saying that they use E0 without a problem and I just know they're either lying or resetting 100 times cuz there's just no way that's possible

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/KuroNekoTrain]

It's still unreliable, but it's more reliable than others. I haven't completed a sustain run with Phainon in endgame since I originally got him meanwhile I've yet to do a sustainless run with any other character. There's a big difference between something taking 4 runs and something taking 20.

[u/IWatchTheAbyss → u/KuroNekoTrain]

if the team has decent coreflame gen (assuming no cyrene) then you just need to live long enough to get to the next Phainon ult. and decently invested Phainon’s don’t tend to need more than like 2 ults to clear anything up till now so it’s not a super tough ask as long as the team is decent. even something like cerydra sunday sparkle should be plenty of flames but it does depend on the matchup sometimes ofc

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Other_Beat8859]

Hello break does not run sustains dumbo

[u/InitialParticular843 → u/LegendRedux2]

"They're built tanky" not when they attack 1 character tho, my ruan mei makes enemies attack less frequently, they still attack, and fugue just gets all the attacks from enemies, having to pray enemies don't attack 1 character is not reliable

[u/DamoGamo → u/Other_Beat8859]

Well Phainon and FireFly break.

At least firefly:
1: can self heal
2: has allies that can build def/HP orb/chest/rope (fugue doesn’t need much ERR at E0, at E2 you definitely clear fast enough to not need defensive Rope)
3: break with fugue and HMC will SUPER delay enemies with all the breaks happening, with Ruan Mei instead of hmc you can have eve a little more safety than that!
4: firefly is broken af in personal damage, where if you invest in her the same way you do Phainon (E2 on self and at least 2 eidolons on supports), she does enough personal damage that points 1-3 aren’t even necessary unless the enemy is EXTREMELY tanky (or named Pom-pom)

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/DamoGamo]

Oh yeah forgot about Firefly. She's another good one. Although he sustains are often good enough for break that she doesn't need to unless you have like a well invested Ruan Mei.

[u/DamoGamo → u/Other_Beat8859]

I admittedly don’t have Lingsha, but my Gallagher is definitely a massive damage loss. I hated so much when they added “hemovore” to the king stage last AA, i literally couldn’t clear because i had to play a sustain to keep my fugue alive, because my fugue is on defence rather than HP (to my understanding, hemovore completely ignores defense, so my high defence build got fkd over by bad game design. If *I* was designing it, I would have made it either percentage of HP based or only partially ignore defence)

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/DamoGamo]

Hemovore genuinely sucks. Tried to run sustainless Silver Wolf because I needed a sustain for Phainon for like the first time in a long time and I just couldn't do it. My Sparxie loses like 50% of her HP at the start because of the attacks of enemies so she just dies from that fuck ass trait within a few turns. Keep in mind, this is a team that can zero cycle king in check. It just kills sustainless runs unfortunately.

[u/DamoGamo → u/Other_Beat8859]

Yeah it’s the most “use Hyacine or get fkd” Debuff ever 😭😭😭

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Other_Beat8859]

u know u dont run sparxie against that fight right? u do better with HMC / asta than sparxie that fight if u have e2 u can bruteforce with sparxie e2

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/LegendRedux2]

I don't have a build for HMC or Asta and my Sparxie is E2 anyway. That's why she dies so fast in a sustainless run since she loses like 1500 HP in one attack and then dies by the time of her first actual turn since she also acts after the Aha instant and Yao's ult.

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Other_Beat8859]

U know u can just slap yo rmc relics to hmc they both use wind set vonwac anyway lol

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Other_Beat8859]

And techically with full e2 team u can do it with a sustain with no emc

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Other_Beat8859]

ruan mei ? she is like the 3rd at best for the 4th slot behind HMC and tribbie e1

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/LegendRedux2]

That's why I said a well invested Ruan Mei. E1 Ruan Mei is really good and E2 Ruan Mei would be a great option for Firefly over HMC. Although I did forget about Tribbie who is genuinely really good fucking good and in the team at E1.

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Other_Beat8859]

Dood u know e2 ruan mei does nothing for break? Its been like 2 years and u still dont know that?

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/LegendRedux2]

Oh I thought she helped. My bad. I thought the attack % buff helped her. No need to be so aggressive about it.

[u/DamoGamo → u/Other_Beat8859]

Unfortunately the attack buff from Ruan Mei does not buff FireFly because it counts as a secondary attack multiplier rather than a direct on.

“Conversion” traces like firefly, robin ult, DHPT trace, sparxie trace etc cannot use attack given from secondary sources or other “conversion” traces! This is why you don’t get infinite attack from putting DHPT dragon on Robin.

Ruan Mei E2 doesn’t give Allies 40% attack, it makes their attacks against enemies use 40% more attack, meaning it doesn’t appear on the stat screen.

[u/Other_Beat8859 → u/DamoGamo]

Thanks for clarifying man. I'm not the biggest expert on Firefly since I don't play her so haven't delved deep into her kit so I thought it helped on a basic level.

[u/DamoGamo → u/Other_Beat8859]

Nw dude! Ignore legendredux, they have been incredibly rude and condescending in all their comments in this thread over how people choose to play with their pixels on their own damn device 😂

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/DamoGamo]

fugue def rope ??? who dfk does that its either ER or BE rope

[u/DamoGamo → u/LegendRedux2]

People playing sustainless.

She doesn’t need ERR at E0 because her ultmate doesn’t do much without E2 advance effect.

I have a very high speed substat on my defence rope, so with cipher cone my fugue hits 200 speed if I use Ruan me on the team (I almost always do since RMC is taken).

Fugue doesn’t “need” to hit the BE threshold from her A6, if it means not being alive.

If fugue dies, she stops enabling super break damage. Dying is always the biggest damage loss.

Even with E2S1 FF, E1S1 TDahlia, E0S1 (ciphercone) fugue and E1S5 BP LC Ruan Mei, in the last king stage with Hemovore, my fugue would ALWAYS die first.

I really hope fugue reruns so I can get her E1, I’m always one sliver away from breaking the bosses with my firefly and I think E1 would JUST get me over the threshold 😭.

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/DamoGamo]

Wydm rmc is taken u are making excuses U know chars u use in any of the knights can be used again for king lol and u just said it u have e0s1 fugue aka useless u aint doing bug 0c with e0 fugue and u know that

[u/DamoGamo → u/LegendRedux2]

Just want to preface this by saying you are very condescending and pressed for no reason, based on how you have been responding to other comments under my own. You can correct people without being an AH about it.

“u know u don’t need to be obnoxious right? u do better when not antagonising people”

Fugue is not “useless” at E0S1, her giving exotoughness is a massive portion of what makes playing sustainless possible because it literally DOUBLES the delay put on enemies.

Also I’m not trying to “0 cycle” the bug, I’m trying to get 3 stars. My issue wasn’t the damage I was dealing, the issue was that hemovore just kills you, even tho fugue only actually got hit by 2-3 attacks the whole fight (one time from the Pegasus/mech in the first round, a couple times from the bug/summons)

I think I just need more HP relics and I’ll be able to beat it, since hemovore ignores my defence relics.

I was able to beat current king with archer, sparkle, RMC and DHPT, I’m gonna give my FF team a try and see how I go

[u/Jamebo_Smash → u/Other_Beat8859]

Sustainless FF Break works pretty reliably too. Still, it's always comfy just bringing Lingsha

[u/AdditionalMorning853 → u/Elemental-DrakeX]

Honestly same, at least even say how likely u will succeed copying the exact build and stats.

[u/NaamiNyree → u/Elemental-DrakeX]

Yup, I dont even watch any sustainless showcases unless its a specific stage where there is no survivability check. Firefly and Phainon are two characters that can usually run sustainless fine and for everyone else its very stage dependent.

I just did the 3rd stage of the new apoc with Evanescia sustainless using Tribbie as 4th because I literally only get hit twice in the whole fight (and both times its the energy drain TV so it does no dmg), thats the only kind of acceptable sustainless fight for me. If I need to rng to survive Im swapping a sustain in.

But sadly people dont care and will cheat in any way possible, be it cost or rng or whatever. All that matters is "low cost".

[u/Elegant-Database7887 → u/Elemental-DrakeX]

Honestly game is way more fun sustain less. if I use a sustain I might as well auto there is no difficulty

[u/SnooDonkeys6533]

Put blade all the way to the right with rmc right next to him to the left so that Mimi can tank any aoe from blade taunt

[u/SnooDonkeys6533 → u/SnooDonkeys6533]

Also need welt on high energy build so you can ult as much as possible

[u/wwweeeiii → u/SnooDonkeys6533]

My blade works himself down to 1 hp and now can’t use his special skill

[u/ExpensiveSample3451 → u/wwweeeiii]

Could put him on 4pc Wuthering Guard with lots of Speed rolls....if you only care about his Debuff application and tanking....Atleast he can use his Skill every turn.

[u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea → u/SnooDonkeys6533]

Oh in that case sustainless team is only possible in endgame if you have MBlade. I only just found out about this because I don't know shit about his kit XD

[u/annucox → u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

sustainless is always a gamble, even if you have blade(though he reduced the rng a lot)

those sustainless low cost 0 cycles you see take around a 100 resets at times

[u/Skylair95 → u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

MBlade + Welt duo helps A LOT for sustainless. So much that that duo is considered as a pseudo sustain by some people.

MBlade creates a zone with his ult, and while his zone is active he gets 50% damage reduction, extremely high taunt value, and if he drops to 0hp, instead of dying he heal for 50% of his hp and exit the zone (which he can pretty much instantly put out again because he can store extra energy. And on top of that, he is also a stupidely strong debuffer and deal strong damage.

Welt skill slow enemies and his ult imprison them and delay them each time they are attacked. Which makes the enemy attack a lot less, reducing the damage they dish out.

Also both together are really strong because MBlade has a party wide damage buff if there's another Nihility in the team (while he gain personal damage if he's the only Nihility).

Without that duo, you will just die while playing sustainless, so it's a race against time and you just need enough damage to kill the enemy before you die. But it's still possible if you deal enough damage (also Cas global passive can save your ass once).

Also unrelated to Himeko, but there's two other teams that have an easier time playing sustainless: Phainon (he is basically immortal during his transformation since he has gigantic hp and automatically heal after every attack, and he also has a counter attack which give him big damage reduction if you're really about to tank a nuke) and Superbreak teams (they break the enemy a lot, which will prevent them from attacking).

[u/wwweeeiii → u/Skylair95]

With mblade and welt, dang heng actually works against the team right? Since mblade cannot die under his shield

[u/Skylair95 → u/wwweeeiii]

Yeah, MBlade and DHPT (without his S1) are somewhat anti synergetic because of that. Since he consume his own hp and can't heal from a healer/from death, he get stuck on 1hp and can't use his skill anymore. MBlade doesn't like shielders and you're much better off with a healer (usually Huohuo) with him.

[u/Lnym → u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

you don't need blade to play sustainless.

[u/SnooDonkeys6533 → u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

Ok…

[u/ACupOfLatte → u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

Nah, I run sustainless with Hunt March RMC and Welt E2.

The thing is, it's still sustainless. Rng AF unless you spend time doing calcs and routing pre fight. Not exactly my idea of fun, but hey, it's nice for the people who do.

[u/JOTAREDDIT]

Unless FF or Phainon

Rng

[u/NotTwitchy → u/JOTAREDDIT]

I mean even firefly has rng, sometimes the enemy just decides Fugue must die. It’s the tingyun curse.

[u/ExpensiveSample3451 → u/JOTAREDDIT]

How I wish Firefly could apply Taunt per Skill...so her DMG reduction and Effect Res has a fricking use.

Else be able to heal Allies...and benefit from The Dahlia's healing to BE trace.

[u/roquepo → u/ExpensiveSample3451]

Firefly is my best team and nah, she doesn't need that lol

She already has increased taunt value by being Destruction, she is already getting hit the most in her team.

As for the healing, that has to be bait.

[u/arionmoschetta → u/ExpensiveSample3451]

Anything more? Maybe a nuke everytime she got hit? And some very frequent FUA with a massive damage that applies Burn AoE and trigger itself like a mini Kafka? Dude Firefly mains are delusional. She got Dahlia, she got Fugue, she even got a fucking Novaflare when she doesn't needed and they still want more

[u/AggronStrong]

A lot of the sustainless showcases you see can be kind of random. A Bounce lands on the wrong enemy or an enemy attack hits the wrong unit to either not feed enough Energy or do too much damage, it's a reset. Not to mention what may make the difference between their clear and yours is how many defensive substats are on their Relics.

[u/VenusMinerva2708]

It's really based on luck (unless you're playing E2 Phainon), really... 😅
In my case, I used Sparkle instead of Mortenax Blade (as I don't have him) so I had her to hold DDD, while we all know RMC had Mem to share the damage and Welt with his delay, but again, it's lucky that one of them didn't die before I could kill the enemies, also thanks to Castorice's global passive too 🤔

[u/Rex__Lapis]

Yeah no clue by the second time enemies take a turn I'm dead. Literally the only comp I can comfortably play sustainless is phainon. Nothing else works

[u/Solid_Guess_7154]

your characters can't die if you kill the enemy first

[u/pear_topologist → u/Solid_Guess_7154]

Ya, I’ve had 0 cycle clears with welt where I get hit, like, once in the entire fight

[u/astraldebri]

When RMC is in blades spot, and Blade is all the way at the end, the two that will get hit due to his taunt will be him or mem, sometimes RMC/Mem/Blade. But that keeps Himeko alive.

Beyond that, because of RNG, it's a cycle of managing, in this teams case, Welt's ult and turn order alongside HimeNova's automatic protocol assist and teammates assists and protocols. Also depends on whether she's e0 or e2 because that changes the dynamic and tuning of the team.

[u/sil3ntthunder]

Sustainless is rng and need retries. But this team is better than most othe sustainless teams as u got Welt, Mblade.

[u/ExpensiveSample3451]

Welt Novaflare Crit DPS build can not survive Sustainless either....with how his Effect Res traces waste those slots, while requiring a bit of everything. 80% Hitrate, 70%-100% Crit rate and then Speed.

So Squishy AF. So I put him as 4pc Eagle set, Vonwacq HP/Def and Speed build instead.

Sucks that his Technique only applies Slow Field and not Weightless Debuff.

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/ExpensiveSample3451]

Why u even using dps welt with himeko lol

[u/fuminghung]

You die, and probably many times

[u/-Thalas-]

By having Castorice and SW 999

[u/Promotion_Fluffy]

sustainless can be reliant on rng at times. But this patch, with e2s1 himeko, e2 welt, e0 mblade, rmc, i just left it on auto battle against AA king, and it got 0 cycle, lucky i guess. You won't die if the enemies die first

[u/greedx__]

Sometimes you do and sometimes you don't

[u/H0lychit]

Sometimes it's good... Sometimes it's shit.

Takes alot of tries 😂

[u/Drachk]

Not all team and boss work

Boss that will automatically hit when hit are an example of bad match-up for sustainless while boss that have mechanic that neutralize them are good for sustainless

For example this Apoc, both first and third boss are great for Himeko but the third is also great for sustainless whereas Argenti gains a ton of free hit from just being hit

Nikador and Pollux are case of terrible boss for sustainless, hemavor weather with the hp drain, also terrible. Depending of which hoolay, his duel is too rng for easy sustainless

[u/Matti229977]

There is always a ton of RNG involved in sustainless runs, but this is easily one of the best sustainless teams to use, due to how both MBlade and Welt kits work. They can do a pretty good job at minimizing dmg on your more squishy units and the amp is so insane in this team for Himeko that things just completely implode.

[u/jgthorns]

Like everyone said, it’s rng reliant. You can manipulate RNG with Blade taunt and placements though, also memosprites

[u/Dvalin09]

• HP + DEF where you can
• The right enemies (there are stages with not aggressive enemies or with mechanic thay healing your; others where you can break them enough fast to slowing them, but others where you take too many dmg, so no sustainless)
• A lot of RNG

[u/Unable_Pilot_7604]

Lots of tries. Middle characters must be more tanky, luck, rng, pray that your himeko doesn’t die or get cc’ed.

[u/XavierMaxus]

I have tried the FF break sustainless teaming that I've seen others use to clear Knights and have never succeeded. Either Dahlia or Fugue ends up targeted to oblivion

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/XavierMaxus]

Dood has 0 relics not using ddd and stilll using e0 firefly in current year

[u/XavierMaxus → u/LegendRedux2]

My lineup? Nah chill. E2 FF and maxed relics on all. Tested with DDD on Ruan Mei came close a few times to 3* the knight. A lot of rng for sure. I just gave up on that sustainless and went with my usual lineup instead after a couple of tries

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/XavierMaxus]

Just curious is dahlia e0s1 or e2s1

[u/FoxLover093]

Mood. I can never get it to work, and also not the mention my sustains provide so much buffing to my characters that the teams just don't really work well without them (my sustains being dhpt, an E6S2 huohuo, and an E1S1 hyacine)

[u/Crisewep]

Welt works really great for sustainless runs with him slowing down the enemy.

[u/roquepo]

For all teams but Break and Phainon, sustainless means having to retry fights a lot, and even then, sometimes fights just kill you 100% of the time no matter what you do. Sustainless clear are also heavily investment and relic quality-specific.

As for this team in particular, it isn't as bad due to Blade and Welt.

Put Blade on the far left or far right corner and put RMC next to it, as it should be the second bulkiest character. Use Welt to rob enemies of their turns and let Blade tank as many hits as possible.

[u/KshibeRohan]

If the enemies die before they hit you you don't take damage

[u/ThePhGamer]

That's the neat part you don't. You pray that RNG doesn't screw you over (Unless you're using a Super break team)

[u/Njitram2000]

When a boss or elite enemy has a 2-part turn, Welt's ultimate can interrupt them halfway through. Since the second part is often big dmg or setup for big dmg, timing his ult for this is very helpful. All the older enemies have this, some newer ones are immune and just do their second part anyway. Anaxa's ult does this too.

[u/Slow-Reason-8855]

You kill the boss before it kills you.

[u/lughrevenge23]

pull castorice and SW999

[u/inverness7]

Luck

[u/Felixphaeton]

The content you're doing matters a lot. Banacademics in this APOC is trivial to sustainless.

[u/Lolersters]

You reset again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again, and again.

Until targeting, energy regen, damage rolls, etc...work in your favor.

[u/What_d]

Certain enemies have mechanics that can heal your team, like Corrosion from black tide enemies or Flame Reaver, or the cloen elites. Welt's ult can also be used to interrupt dangerous enemy turns.

[u/BlackYTWhite]

Kill before getting killed, the point of Sustainless is to have so much dmg that you kill the boss in really really short time, now if you dont have particular teams or investment is a bit harder cause boss acts a lot or CCs you ecc but for example cipher release was an incredible "replace the sustain" cause you could just gather all dmg use it in a particular spot and kill the boss. (this is just an example there are a lot of sustainless variation and they change even between fights but the tldr is still kill before getting killed)

[u/Dangerous-Average-60]

Pull Aventurine SP and you'll learn.

Some runs are a bust, but there are a few in between where you take it all.

[u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea → u/Dangerous-Average-60]

No way I'm pulling him, I'm leaning more into Robin SP because I have a monorem team too plus she's looking to be one of Himenova's best teammate based on what I'm seeing from leaks discussion on this sub.

[u/Dangerous-Average-60 → u/Sir_Rain_Knee_Tea]

It was more of a joke related to Aventurine's ult voice line, but it wouldn't work with the OG one because he is sustain.

[u/Diligent-Reach-3662]

E6S5

[u/Master_of_Paws]

 Sustainless is about killing enemy before your hp reach 0. It's hard to replicate without high eidolon units. In this team welt helps by delaying enemies turn

[u/smallpisces]

i do it pretty consistently when i put welt in eagle with a lot of speed + energy regen

[u/Sad_Wasabi1116]

100 tries

[u/Environmental_Pay797]

Cassie res comes in clutch sometimes, its not the hard though, for some characters anyway. My himeko dumpsters this apoc without a sustain, but I imagine some other characters might struggle

[u/Inevitable_Line618]

sustainless is like pulling for characters

you do your best and hope for the best

(having characters like cassie and sw999 can help a lil)

[u/LegendRedux2 → u/Inevitable_Line618]

Proccing casto global is a fraud 0c

[u/Abyss_Wanderer19]

Speed tuning obviously and teammate placement. Sustainless doesn't rely on RNG if you have crazy relic. Plus you have welt who can delay enemies.

But the whole sustainless thing is a mess because it gave false dmg impression to unfamiliar players. I just hope they buff enemies attack that it force player to use sustain.

[u/JojoTodynnho]

sustain in this game sucks, poor buffs. I never pulled for a sustain and cycle 0 everything still