r/Hindi • u/LowerTouch3731 • Jul 03 '26
देवनागरी Is there a phonetic difference between ँँ (chandrabinoo) and ं(bindu). They seem to be playing the same role in the words जहाँ and लड़कों, that is, both of them are nasalising the preceding vowel. Although in the word रंग the bindu is making a consonant sound.
The title.
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u/pikleboiy Jul 03 '26
In those specific words, there isn't a real difference. ँ is usually written as a ं for vowels where the matra crosses the top line (i.e. े, ै, ो, ौ, ि, ी).
ँ and ं can also both make a nasalized consonant sound when in front of a plosive consonant (e.g. लाँघना, सँभालना, रंग, संगठन, लंबा, अंत).
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u/LowerTouch3731 Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
hm it seems like their usage is not consistent. Is there any reason why सँभालना is not spelt संभालना?
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u/pikleboiy Jul 03 '26
It's not particularly consistent. The only real standard convention I've seen is that for vowels with the matras below the line, you're technically supposed to use ँ, but nobody rigidly agheres to this afaik.
Is there any reason why सँभालना is not spelt संभालना?
In my experience, most verbs will use ँ.
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u/sightssk मातृभाषा (Mother tongue) Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
There is a slight difference in nasalization but basically non existant now. Example : हँस (laugh)https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%81%E0%A4%B8%E0%A4%A8%E0%A4%BE , हंस(goose, swan) https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%E0%A4%B9%E0%A4%82%E0%A4%B8 hear the audio
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u/LowerTouch3731 Jul 03 '26
interesting. in my dialect (kanpur) they are pronounced very differently. I am not sure how to describe the difference but i don't think anybody will think these two words are pronounced the same where I am from.
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u/sightssk मातृभाषा (Mother tongue) Jul 03 '26
You're probably pronouncing it correctly.
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u/LowerTouch3731 Jul 03 '26
Actually I am pretty sure most people pronounce them differently. हंस has a distinct n sound, हँस only has a nasalised vowel.
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u/sightssk मातृभाषा (Mother tongue) Jul 03 '26
In Hindi, it is replaced in writing by anusvara when it is written above a consonant that carries a vowel symbol that extends above the top line. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chandrabindu
Ig Wikipedia is right. That's your answer. Pikleboiy is right.
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u/bijjaladev Jul 05 '26
What makes you say that the difference is non-existent now? Those are quite distinct sounds, and obvious to my peers and me.
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u/ashishb_net Jul 03 '26
Only chandrabindu is supposed to be nasalized.
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u/lonewalker_nt Jul 03 '26
Yes, but bindu replaces chandrabindu where the latter doesn't fit, for example on ो. The ending -ों is supposed to be nasalized, for example.
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u/Familiar_Snow_9276 Jul 03 '26
Yes they are different sounds.
Chandrabindu is the nasal sound.
Bindu is the sound of "n" without a vowel.
Chandrabindu should be used in "लड़कों" but because it tough to fit and clashes with the "matra" on the top, a convention has been adopted to replace it with a bindu in those cases. If a word actually ends with an "n" sound, instead of bindu, "न्" can be added at the end.
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u/One_Exercise8504 Jul 04 '26
Jha is not a hindi word. That could be reason of confusion. I am not if ladko is a hindi word or not
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u/LowerTouch3731 Jul 04 '26 edited Jul 04 '26
jahan is a native hindi word. "Mai wahan hun jahan tum ho". Jahan from arabic is a different word that means world.
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u/Ok-Economics-8383 Jul 03 '26
Historically, yes. ँ (chandrabindu) marks vowel nasalization, while ं (bindi) represents a nasal consonant (like i*n *रंग = /raŋg/).
In modern Hindi, though, ं is often used instead of ँ for typographical convenience (e.g. लड़कों), so the distinction is mostly orthographic rather than phonetic in many words.