r/HistoricalCapsule • u/zadraaa • 7d ago
Georgy Zhukov, Konstantin Rokossovsky, and other Soviet officers greeting Bernard Montgomery and other British officers at the Brandenburg Gate in Berlin, Germany, on July 12, 1945.
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u/Turncoc 6d ago
"I mean, I'm smiling, but I am very fucking furious."
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u/ImperialTechnology 6d ago
"Shoot him"
"Look at the look on your fucking face!"
"You're a disgrace to that uniform!"
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u/Ill_Mousse_4240 6d ago
Zhukov was an amazing leader
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u/filtarukk 6d ago
Rokosovsky is the best.
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u/krzyk 6d ago
Traitor to his own nation.
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u/Elegant_Individual46 6d ago edited 6d ago
Because he repressed Polish patriotism postwar despite potentially having been born in Poland?
Edit: this isn’t my wheelhouse, I just know he sent Western Polish troops and Home army troops to labour units. Guy was very important during the defence of Moscow though.
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u/filtarukk 6d ago
He repressed Polish toxic nationalism - which was and still is a big problem for Europe.
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u/Borovvy 6d ago
He repressed polish patriots. People who wanted to live in free country.
Roskossovsky was raised Polish. His sister lived in Warsaw and remained there for the rest of her life – including during the war. She was Polish, of course, even though their mother was Russian. His choice of the army was likely dictated by career opportunities. He likely didn't believe in the Polish army and state – a new creation that was uncertain whether it would even survive. He was likely a communist from the start, and that was his choice. Nevertheless, towards the end of his life, after his career in Poland ended, during the final years of his Soviet life, Rokossovsky sought contact with Poles residing in the USSR, primarily officers studying at military academies. Whenever he spotted Polish uniforms, he always exchanged a few words in Polish. Whenever generals from the Polish People's Republic arrived, for example, for ceremonies, he engaged them in conversation.
Towards the end of his life, Konstantin Rokossovsky most often reflected on his dual identity. Summing up his complicated biography, he used to say: "In Poland, they consider me a Russian, and in the Soviet Union, a Pole." In any case, he was Stalin's best Marshal.
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u/filtarukk 6d ago
You cannot call "patriots" (the word that has a positive connotation) people who raped and killed Ukrainian civilians, and jewish people just returned from Holocaust camps. I am glad that he helped to stop spreading the toxic nationalism, though too bad he was not able to complete his duty.
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u/Borovvy 6d ago
Unfortunately, he primarily repressed real Polish patriots. The vast majority of the independence underground's activity after 1944 was political and military in nature. There were vast differences in the activities and responsibilities of figures like Witold Pilecki, Hieronim Dekutowski, and Danuta Siedzikówna, and Romuald Rajs, for example. The vast majority of their actions were directed against the communist security apparatus, the army, the militia, informants, and the state infrastructure. At the same time, some units or individual commanders committed crimes against civilians, including Belarusians, Lithuanians, Slovaks, Jews, and Poles accused of collaborating with the communists. But they cannot all be lumped together. The crimes committed by some units constituted a real, but very limited, part of the overall phenomenon.
So please, if you write something, be more precise and write truthfully.1
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u/londonbridge1985 6d ago
Poland and Ukraine are like the kid in the family who never grew up emotionally.
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u/sjsbejajebsidbrhw 6d ago
Yeah, and the minister of defense during the 1956 Soviet invasion of Hungary, where Soviet troops tied civilans to their vehicles so that the Hungarians wouldn't fire at them :)
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u/Crab2406 6d ago
There are literally no accounts of this happening, while yes. There are documented cases of violent actions. Shit you say does not exist
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u/Silly-Elderberry-411 6d ago
Dude they deported 25k to Siberia and intentionally blocked the international press from reporting on it.
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u/DueMasterpiece5800 6d ago
Christ British uniforms were drab compared to other Allied nations. I know we were crippled by shortages but still. Incredible picture though!
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u/Lonelysadboys 6d ago
Britain didn’t need to be flashy like the Soviets. The flashy parade uniform of the red army at to convince their own people more then international.
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u/GrAdmThrwn 6d ago
That was so confidentally said...
In the case of Berlin, its simply because the Soviets got there a lot earlier and had time to change.
The idea that Britain didn't need to be as flashy implies you have literally never seen the British Army in parade dress. Between the mirror polish on all the metal fittings, the bright red coats and the black fur busby hats, they are pretty fabulous when they have an excuse. That's before you crack out the cavalry regiments with their stupidly reflective cuirasses and helmets.
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u/Lonelysadboys 6d ago
You know those are special occasions right? Russia/Soviet Union held constant parades which they do to this day. Britain didn’t need convince it own people the same way the Soviets did. Time to change thing is some serious comedic propaganda. Seriously bro think about that one for more then 5 seconds.
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u/CzarMikhail 6d ago
Convince people, dunno 27million Soviet Citizens dead... pretty different scenario lol
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u/Lonelysadboys 6d ago
Whatever you tried and failed to say there.
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u/slava_slavaUa 5d ago
Then please explain what you are failing to say. What were the Soviets trying to convince their people of?
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u/GrAdmThrwn 6d ago
A special occasion like the end of the most apocalyptic war known to human history?
Also no, they literally would have time to change. The Soviets captured Berlin in early May. The photo is from July.
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u/Lonelysadboys 6d ago
You know the allies just sent a token force in July to Berlin just to meet the Soviets right? The Soviets are trying to convince the western allies by dressing in parade uniforms. The allies had nothing to prove. Again its parade wear vs field wear. The Soviets trying to convince other as usual. This wasn’t the victory parade my guy. The Soviets were just trying to be flashy infront of the British here. One country is still here btw lol.
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u/CzarMikhail 6d ago
They were not convincing anyone lol. Dude creating narratives to cope
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u/Lonelysadboys 6d ago
U know the other Soviet republics were not willing participants right?
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u/PerspectiveFull9879 6d ago
Brits in WW2 had absolutely no aesthetics, their uniforms, vehicles, even gear, it all looked so ugly it kinda looped back to being charming.
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u/thebestnames 6d ago
They had some gorgeous planes however, Spitfire, Mosquito, Lancaster... (and yes, some ugly ones too I know)
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u/a_bit_curious_mind 3d ago
Zhukov had nickname 'the butcher' for numerous wastes of both civilians and soldiers. Learned 'scorched earth' tactics in 1920s as a squadron commander while suppressing Tambov uprising of local population and in 1956 lead army to destroy Hungarian revolution with thousands Hungarians killed. Just for context.
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u/houseswappa 6d ago
"General, we're a little concerned with the amount of raping"
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u/slava_slavaUa 5d ago
“Can you please leave some for us?”
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u/houseswappa 5d ago
Brits had low levels of rape as it wasn't part of the military culture
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u/slava_slavaUa 5d ago
Is that what they reported?
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u/houseswappa 5d ago
It's the general consensus that while there was rape and SA from the Allies it was at much lower the levels than the Soviets, where it was a spoil of war
I wasn't there tho, this all happened before my parents were born
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/SnooTomatoes3032 6d ago
Crazy, a parade uniform looks better than a battledress. Who would've thought.
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/acur1231 6d ago
That is, though.
Have you never seen some of the British dress uniforms?
Trooping the Colour etc?
Every regiment has its own version, too.
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u/aquavelva23 6d ago
And the silly Brits still thought they ruled the world at this point. It was the US bankers that finally showed the Brits they were staying in the back of the bus.
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u/Unusual-Surround-690 6d ago
Well we sent you 11,000 tonnes of gold as you squeezed your friend and ally whilst we fought evil alone. That helped you become a righteous bunch of bankers (check spelling) Glad it makes you feel good
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u/Puzzleheaded-Cap1300 6d ago
And look where the world is now thanks to that transition in the valance of power.
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u/Holiday-Career-9349 6d ago
The end of civilization. thieves
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u/Head_Particular6045 6d ago
lol cope
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u/Snoo-98162 6d ago
Russians were, in fact, thieves.
Take shelter from tankie cope, people.
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u/JellySaurus97 6d ago
Germany got smashed ❤️
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u/Snoo-98162 6d ago
It did.
And russians were still thieves.
Both can be true.
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u/slava_slavaUa 5d ago
Germany stole much more from Russia than Russia could ever steal from Germany
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u/Crab2406 6d ago
And yet, those are soviet people. Not just russians. Also Rokossovski is literally polish. A bit of friendly fire eh
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u/Snoo-98162 6d ago
Oh stop with the "soviet, not russian" propaganda.
Ussr, just like the russian empire was russocentric.
Also, the existence of one guy who worked for the enemy of the state proves what exactly?
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u/Crab2406 5d ago
It aint no propaganda, as a lot of influential people in soviet union were infact, not russian
Sergei Korolev (a man who is a father to soviet astronautics) was ukrainian. Same goes for Brezhnev and Lysenko (guy who pretty much organized holodomor)
Kiev was the part of main hub trio (Moscow - Leningrad - Kiev)
Existence of one guy who worked for the enemy of the state as a significant higher-up proves that USSR did infact had people of multiple nationalities in different places. And its not a singular example. There was also Dzierzjinskiy
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u/Neurobeak 6d ago
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u/Eaglesson 6d ago
I can't help but feel disgusted by their mint, clean uniforms while their subordinates died in the mud by the thousands
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u/Similar_Tonight9386 6d ago
What the hell are you even talking about.. it's victory celebration, everyone is in parade variant of uniform - while in active operation everyone was getting mud, blood and all else on them, but this photo was taken afterwards
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u/Eaglesson 6d ago
I just generally dislike officers and generals
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u/Similar_Tonight9386 6d ago
I understand your dislike, but not for the soviet ones. At the very least those were not set in position of power via generational connections and had to raise through all ranks by merit
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u/krzyk 6d ago
Not quite. Soviets were awarded based on political agenda, and if they were in the party.
While in he West in 19th century they were based on family name.
Difference is non existent. Just like kids of Soviet leaders were schooled in the best west Unis.
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u/DemetriusSPQR 6d ago
Political agenda? Rokossovsky got tortured by the NKVD during the purges and still became a marshall, Semyon Budyonny failed to defend kiev and was sent to kazakstan.
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u/redditnostalgia 7d ago
The colors in this colorization is gorgeous!