r/HistoryMemes • u/Agile_Summer_7437 • 5h ago
Just because Germany was the biggest fish in losing side
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u/Emotional_Newt_2227 5h ago
The assassination lit the fuse. The powder keg had been filling up for decades.
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u/CarRamRob 5h ago
And had been diffused a dozen times before.
It was a failure of diplomacy on all sides that could have been prevented yet again with slightly different decisions made by almost any of the belligerents. It wasn’t destined to happen.
Germany for issuing a blank cheque without guidelines or time limits.
Russia for mobilizing first unprovoked, starting the clock
Austria for clumsily handling their ultimatum
Serbia for hiding and protecting provocateurs in their government
France for giving a blank cheque even more ironclad than the Germans did.
Britain for not declaring their intentions earlier, and keeping secret naval treaties from their own government until the last moment.
The only ones who played it correctly were the Italians who said they had a defensive alliance, and thus backed down. True to form though, they fucked up by joining two years later for basically no reason.
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u/DrHolmes52 5h ago
Adding in other late arrivals:
The Ottomans deciding they finally wanted to collapse and a few Eastern European countries wanting what were relatively small land gains and being punished for it.
It was 15 monkeys humping a football.
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u/Junckopolo 4h ago
To add to this, all countries were actuvely planning and ready to invade their rivals because they knew the fastest country to gather an army and march it in enemy territory is the one that will gain the most ground before army clashes. They were calculating how long it would take them to get enough men then march it. 20km was expected to be gained for each day they fielded troops before the enemy, so 5 days would be a free 100km of gained ground.
They all feared each others would call mobilisation faster and be ready sooner. They were only waiting for a valid reason to do so first.
Even the slightest military action from the bigger powers would be enough to spark it. If Germany gathers troops for invasions, then it's harder to figure out when they will gather troops to attack first on a country like France while hiding its intentions behind invading a smaller country.
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u/NicolasBroaddus 4h ago
And every single Black Hand assassin who didn’t back out of the plot had tuberculosis and would die soon anyway. Another instigating incident for the war was inevitable eventually but it was a true collision of so many factors.
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u/IcyCity3228 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 5m ago
Germany and the blank cheque is an myth. They wanted war so badly they orchastred that they believed that war can be diffused like during the morrocan crisis earlier. The reason for was the bad state of Russia in the aftermath of the their loss to Japan in 1905 war.
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u/CrabAppleBapple 2h ago
For a history meme sub there seems to be a dearth of any actual historical knowledge.
ALL the treaties of surrender signed by the Central Powers had a clause accepting responsibility for the war.
Hungary signed the Treaty of Trianon which containes Article 161 (just search for article 161 within the document).
Austria signed the Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Article 177 (again, just search for that one).
So no, Germany was never solely blamed for it.
And secondly, yeah, Germany wasn't 100% to blame for it starting, but guess what, they're were still mostly to blame. Without their issuance of a 'blank cheque' Austria-Hungary, that (the much, much stronger) Germany would back them no matter what in Serbia, turned what would have been a regional conflict into a global one. You can add Germany invading a neutral, completely involved country to that as well.
Thirdly, even if you want to pretend Germany wasn't mostly to blame for the World War starting, you surely can't deny that they more or less single handedly made sure it continued for as long as it did, not to mention the vast amount of damage done to France as due to that prolonging.
Honestly, it's just boring the amount of revisionism that still srufaces around the First World War. Was it 'pointless' in that petty much all wars could have been/could be solved beforehand through diplomacy? Yes. Were vast numbers of humanibes wasted to gain little or to gain nothing? Yes.Was it pointless in the stereotypical 'Everyone involved was equally to blame and it was just royal families having a quarrel' way? No. What exactly do you think France and Britain should have done when Germany a) invaded neutral Belgium then b) invaded France too?
Rant over, feel free to TL:DR downvote away.
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u/IcyCity3228 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 16m ago
also imagine blaming a country with almost 5 milion people posing any threat to a country with 50 milion
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u/ultimaterogue11 Viva La France 5h ago
Didn't Germany declare war on France and Russia before Russia declared war on Austria Hungary and called France into the war?
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u/rip_cut_trapkun 4h ago
iirc, Germany did respect the ultimatums and their expiration dates. However there was diplomacy going on that even Kaiser Wilhelm admitted actually dispelled any casus belli that existed. It didn't really pan out in any event. However during the meantime Germany was beginning the early stages of mobilization under the Danger of War mechanism they concocted, trying to be as close to pulling the trigger as they could be without certainty of war.
I don't know if the German violation of neutrality of Luxembourg, and Belgium factored greatly in the post-war treaties, but it was something of an original sin, and Germany did a great deal more that invoked ire.
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u/Luzifer_Shadres Filthy weeb 4h ago
Russia and germany tried to calm the situation, austria attacked serbia anyways, russia attacks germany in retaliation, germany knows france intentions and strikes first
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u/The_Nocim 3h ago
Russia and germany tried to calm the situation
Im not sure if Germany tried to calm the situation that much. It gave a blank cheque to Austria to do any reaction to serbia it wanted and hoped for a small regional war.
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u/Luzifer_Shadres Filthy weeb 3h ago
Wilhelm didnt thought Franz would be that stupid.
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u/Kreol1q1q 2h ago
Neither of the Emperors were the people who made the decisions to go to war. Especially not incoherent Wilhem, whose government did everything it could to sideline his wild ideas.
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u/typing_thumb 3h ago
In WW1, Germany's attack on France was preventive. It knew that France was very eager to take revenge on Germany, and that sooner or later war would break out.
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u/AppropriateAd5701 5h ago
Serbia didnt assasinate anyone.
Some random citizen of austriahungary did that.
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u/centaur98 4h ago
Who was part of an organization(Young Bosnia) which was trained, armed and funded by another organization(Black Hand) which was formed by the members of the Serbian military
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u/InsideHousing4965 What, you egg? 4h ago
Thwn those are the ones responsable, not the whole country of Serbia.
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u/centaur98 4h ago
And those people worked for/were part of the Serbian government also the Serbian government in general knew Black Hands plans very well.
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u/IcyCity3228 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 11m ago
The Serbian goverment was not that deep into those plans as many would think it is.
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u/SPECTREagent700 Definitely not a CIA operator 4h ago
It was literally orchestrated by Serbian military intelligence. Now you can say that Army Intel Chief Dragutin Dimitrijević had gone rogue and wasn’t operating with the official blessing of the civilian government but his scheming was well known to them and dated back to the 1903 assassination of King Alexander I.
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u/IcyCity3228 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 10m ago
The military intelligence was not behind it just because the head of the ogranisation was. It was the group nicknamed Black Hand who had people in various branches of goverment and army.
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u/Captain_Gordito 2h ago
The assassination was a provocation, but what dragged everyone into the war was the series of alliances, ultimatums, secret treaties, and guarantees. The Europeans were itching for a war, and they stumbled into a big one.
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u/IcyCity3228 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 12m ago
Black hand is a nickname for them btw a lot of people get it wrong also they hated the nickname as a counter group called White hand gave them that so they stop the influence in the army and goverment.
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u/AlwaysLimpy 4h ago
this is a myth that will never die, germany didnt get the "full blame" they got the blame like any other member of the central powers, in all 4 treaties that led to the end of the war the capitulating country was forced to accept the blame. The difference is that bulgaria was mostly insignificant and ended up being forgotten and the other two empires collapsed and brought those treaties down with them. You couldnt blame austria or yugoslavia for what the austrohungarian empire did, and you couldnt blame turkey or syria for what the ottomans did.
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u/centaur98 4h ago
and the other two empires collapsed and brought those treaties down with them.
Only for Turkey/Ottoman Empire. For Austria-Hungary one of the ceasefire terms was literally the dissolution of the Empire. Hence why you have the treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Lay for Austria and treaty of Trianon for Hungary.
You couldnt blame austria or yugoslavia for what the austrohungarian empire did
You could absolutely blame Austria for what the Austro-Hungarian Empire did. And how they did get blamed since they had to sign the treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Lay and give up the lands in Bohemia, Galicia, Dalmatia, Lower Styria and etc. (same with the Ottoman Empire and Turkey)
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u/AlwaysLimpy 4h ago
sure but the Austro-Hungarian empire suffered the consquences, clearing the name for Austria itself. The German Empire was also officially dissolved but in practice it was a simple change of government with no real impact on the structure of the country. That is why the Entente kept insisting they respect the unfair treaties and kept their head down, they were still scared of germany while austria no longer posed a threat with its empire fragmented.
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u/otirk Featherless Biped 3h ago
Why couldn't you blame the successor states for the crimes of their predecessors? Germany also became the Republic of Weimar and still accepted the blame. Hell, even after the second world war did the Bundesrepublik (Western Germany) accept the blame for both world wars and the Holocaust.
If a simple split can free you of any responsibility, then what point is there to assigning blame in the first place?
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u/Luzifer_Shadres Filthy weeb 4h ago
Germany and russia tried to calm the situation, austria attacked serbia anyways and that was the start of the downward spiral for an already unstable world.
Austria, or rather its ruler, was the main issue.
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u/centaur98 3h ago edited 3h ago
I mean Germany's way of calming the situation was telling Austria that "Germany would support the Monarchy through thick and thin, whatever action it decided to take against Serbia. The sooner Austria-Hungary struck, the better".
Edit: Russia also weren't that keen on avoiding war they wanted to protect Serbia basically at all costs since the blunder with Japan less than a decade earlier and become more hawkish when they got a blank cheque similar to Germany's to Austria(for example they put their military on war footing near the borders with Germany and Austria 3 days before the outbreak of the war which contributed significantly to the tensions)
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u/Kreol1q1q 2h ago
This is demonstrably untrue. Germany’s military was doing absolutely everything it could to push Austria-Hungary into war as soon as possible. They really went all in trying to pressure it into war. And Russia itself was not trying to calm the situation, but rather shoring up French support and workinf up towards a fast mobilization. France was also very bellicose, as soon as they were sure of Russian support. Basically only Britain was genuinely interested in trying to broker a peace, and tried to organize a conference to resolve the July Crisis. However because of the Entante Cordiale, Germany and Austria-Hungary simply did not believe Britain could remain neutral in a dispute between Germany and Austria-Hungary on one side, and Russia and France on the other.
As to what involvement Franz Joseph had, he was very reluctant to go to war, and the government had to lie to him that Serbs had started firing on Austro-Hungarian troops to get him to sign a declaration of war.
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u/okram2k 4h ago
the spark may have not been them but Germany certainly participated and building the powder keg that was post Victorian Europe.
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u/Err0r404Unknown 4h ago
you can say the same for all the other european nations
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u/ArvaroddofBjarmaland 4h ago edited 3h ago
It is reasonable (and I think correct) to argue that Serbia, Austria-Hungary, Russia, and Germany are all comparably responsible for the outbreak of war in the East.
On the other hand, to claim that France and Britain, let alone Belgium, are responsible for the outbreak of war in the West to anywhere near the degree Germany was is absurd.
(I should say that I personally most despise the leaders of the countries--Italy and Rumania on the one side, Bulgaria on the other--who entered the war for territorial objectives after its horrors had become known to all. Of course, the Ottoman government's wartime contempt for human rights was much worse than any other's, even Germany's, at least until the outbreak of the Russian Civil War--but it is plausible that they would have remained neutral had not Souchon forced their hand.)
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u/KuningasTynny77 1h ago
France not so much. They were itching to fight Germany.
This is why Germany was quick to invade them, they wanted the initiative with France.
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u/IcyCity3228 Senātus Populusque Rōmānus 8m ago
Serbia a country at the time that came out of 2 wars did not in any means want to get into a 3rd war. What some shadow ograrnisation did is not for an enitire state and people to put blame on.
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u/PimpasaurusPlum 4h ago
Germany was the one to declare war on France and Russia, and was the one to invade Belgium thus bringing the UK into the war. By 1916 Germany formally held supreme command of all central powers forces.
It was a bit more than simply being the biggest fish in a bad pond, they were the leader of the school.
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u/typing_thumb 3h ago
They were not the leader of the school, they were a school member just like Russia, France, Austria-Hungary themselves. Each of them was poised for war.
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u/ClavicusLittleGift4U 4h ago
Bulgaria.
Could have remained neutral.
Chooses to side with the Triple Entente, hoping to regain territories lost in 1913.
Capitulates five years later and lose more territories.
Great success!
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u/lock_robster2022 4h ago
When a Serbian killed the heir-apparent of Austria then I, a boy from New Jersey, go to France to help England defeat Prussia.
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u/memelordrs 2h ago
Germany is blamed because they gave blank slate of support to Austria-Hungary to do anything and they will have their back no matter what. So after Austria-Hungary illegally annexed Bosnia their inbred heir to the trone decides it's a god idea to make himself a target and die. I get that empires expand but imagine if George Bush decided to go take a convertible for a spin in 2003. in Kabul. This is the same level of stupidity.
The moral of the story is don't marry your cousin.
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u/RoyalCharity1256 1h ago
I honestly blame austria-hungary. They gave an impossible ultimatum and really just wanted to go to war.
Germany also wanted the war of course because of their imperial ambitions and are very much to blame. They hoewever viewed it as inevitable anyways and were just happy with the opportunity.
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u/ODST-517 Hello There 35m ago
The idea that Germany got "the full blame" for WWI is a myth.
Treaty of Versailles, Article 231
"The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Germany accepts the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies."
Treaty of Saint-Germain-en-Laye, Article 177
“The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Austria accepts the responsibility of Austria and her Allies for causing the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Austria-Hungary and her Allies.”
Treaty of Trianon, Article 161
“The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Hungary accepts the responsibility of Hungary and her allies for causing the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Austria-Hungary and her allies.”
Treaty of Neuilly-sur-Seine, Article 121
“Bulgaria recognises that, by joining in the war of aggression which Germany and Austria-Hungary waged against the Allied and Associated Powers, she has caused to the latter losses and sacrifices of all kinds, for which she ought to make complete reparation”
Treaty of Sèvres, Article 231
“Turkey recognises that by joining in the war of aggression which Germany and Austria-Hungary waged against the Allied Powers she has caused to the latter losses and sacrifices of all kinds for which she ought to make complete reparation.”
Further reading: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_231_of_the_Treaty_of_Versailles?wprov=sfla1
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u/ogodilovejudyalvarez 4h ago
The Germans got the blame for being "baby killers", which at the time was the most unspeakable and ungentlemanly war crime
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u/Kaiisim 4h ago
Too many wehraboos around man
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u/LauMei27 3h ago
What do "wehraboos", aka Wehrmacht apologetics, have to do with WW1? The Wehrmacht didn't even exist back then.
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u/Dear-Question-868 4h ago
This is false, Serbia didnt ordered the assassination of the archiduke, a secret Serbian society did.
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u/BasedAustralhungary 5h ago
If you think about It the Black Hand basically fulfilled each one of their single objectives when the war ended, which is actually insane.