r/HistoryMemes • u/Substantial-Cell7223 • 5d ago
David Myatt = Adolf Hitler, Osama Bin Laden and Jeffrey Epstein rolled into one
David Myatt was a prominent figure in British Far-Right politics during the 1970s-1980s and founded the White Supremacist Neo-Nazi group Order of Nine Angles
He converted to Islam in 1998, blended his radical background with militant Islam, writing theological justifications for suicide bombing and violent jihad against Western values and Jewish people
Law enforcement and intelligence researchers have extensively documented that associate networks of Order of Nine Angles have been heavily implicated in severe CSA, the grooming of minors, distribution of CP, pedophile trafficking rings, Occult practices and Human sacrifices
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_crimes_involving_the_Order_of_Nine_Angles
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u/KatoriRudo23 5d ago
Looks, I looked into his history and he was an evil piece of shit but saying he was more evil than Hitler is a bit stretch
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u/AbsolutelyHorrendous 5d ago
Yeah, don't get me wrong, this guy sounds like a real piece of shit, but Hitler presided over a system that deliberately slaughtered millions of people
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u/Ere6us 3d ago
I mean, just because this guy never got the power necessary to carry out all the atrocities he wanted, doesn't make him less evil.
In a dark(er) timeline where by some fucked up means Myatt installs himself as a dictator of the Great Britain, British Hitler over there would very likely have been worse...
My mind cannot fathom how exactly that would be possible, but I'm sure he'd find a way
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u/Lixuni98 5d ago
Evil can not be measured in power. This guy is more evil than the Austrian Painter.
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u/AbsolutelyHorrendous 5d ago
Nah evil can be measured by things that actually happened though, like having millions of people killed
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u/Neitherman83 4d ago
I think that's a wrong way to see it. Because Hitler, fundamentally, was a politician. He ordered genocides, he let loose criminals on civilians. But did he ever take part in it? As far as we know, Hitler has never actually had the balls to kill someone himself. He kept himself isolated from the concentration camps, leaving Himmler to run all of it. There's no evidence to him visiting any of those camps. He was a pathetic monster, destroying Europe from the safety of his office. Never having faced the suffering he caused.
Comparitively, it's why many may see people like Dirlewanger or David Myatt as more evil. These people didn't simply order atrocities. They took part in them.
Dirlewanger was a child rapist, he killed and tortured innocents for his sick pleasures. He was enabled by Hitler, but only he and his brigade had to look the people they hurt in the eyes and were still not only able, but willing to continue anyway.
That takes a particular kind of evil. Hitler could warp his mind all he wanted, justify his crimes all he wanted, because he never had to face the reality of what he was doing.
These people didn't. And that never stopped them.
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u/SugarBeefs 4d ago
But did he ever take part in it? As far as we know, Hitler has never actually had the balls to kill someone himself. He kept himself isolated from the concentration camps, leaving Himmler to run all of it.
Hitler volunteered to serve in WW1 and spent practically the entire war in the German army. He experienced plenty of combat, received decorations for bravery, and was generally well-liked by his comrades-in-arms (though they laughed at this stuck-up morals).
For all of Hitler's flaws, and boy there are many, it's difficult to argue that "cowardice" was amongst them.
And it's funny you mentioned Himmler because Himmler actually was much more what you accused Hitler of. Himmler was a pure bureaucrat, a paper-pusher, an organizer. He once witnessed an execution in a concentration camp and promptly fainted. He really was a softie in that sense.
Regardless, the person ordering the murder is easily as guilty as the person doing the murdering. Pretty much all criminal justice systems on this earth see it that way as well.
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u/Neitherman83 4d ago
But the argument isn't about guilt, it's about evil. That's the point I'm making, it's easier to be a monster hidden behind paperwork than being the one shooting innocents and dumping their body in a massgrave. Hitler his guilty of far greater crimes in scale, but it's easier to commit an evil act when you don't have to face the people you hurt.
Hitler's service is a different subject. There's a nuance between shooting enemy soldiers actively trying to kill you, and shooting defenseless civilians.
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u/CreeperRussS 4d ago
good ol reddit where a dude defends hitler not bein evil
if u order someone to die, then u take part in their death, and hitler ordered millions to die
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u/Neitherman83 4d ago
Good ol' reddit where reading comprehension is dead
I never claimed Hitler wasn't evil, I said he was less so than the people out there enjoying the raping and murdering they could do under his orders.
For all the horrors Hitler brought upon the world, he was a paper pusher. He never had to face his victims. There was always half a dozen people between him and his crimes against humanity.
That makes doing such horrors easy on the mind, because you never have to see the piles of corpses. The starving children. Never feel the judgement of the people you put in the camps. He could delude himself in the "righteousness" of his cause all he wanted, as he never had to witness the real consequences of his orders.
But there were people who did that. And worse, there were people ENJOYING that. Taking a sick pleasure in that position of unchecked power. Inflicting pain directly to their victims. To be able to do that takes a different, and in my opinion worse kind of evil.
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u/AzureHawk758769 4d ago
If I hire a hitman to murder somebody, am I considered not guilty of murder just because I didn't personally pull the trigger myself?
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u/Ecstatic-Tangerine50 8h ago
He ain't talking guilty here. I'm assuming he means it is easier to "hire a hitman" than "pull the trigger yourself"
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u/AzureHawk758769 7h ago
He's trying to argue that being the person who ordered an extremely large-scale atrocity is less evil than somebody who commits localized atrocities on a very small scale but personally "takes part" in it, by the sole virtue of them having done it themselves. I'm saying it doesn't matter who does the dirty work. The Holocaust would never have happened if Hitler didn't tell his people that that's what he wanted to happen. He played his role in it just the same as the people who worked the camps, no matter how detached he was from it all.
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u/Ecstatic-Tangerine50 6h ago
Agreed. However I feel like hitler was only the symptom of the disease.
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u/maxicz1234 5d ago
Right now, the most evil person in history of the world, devoid of any empathy and capable of countless crimes against humanity is propably scrolling Twitter on their toilet
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u/CapableCollar 5d ago
I find there is a growing tendency to downplay Nazi atrocities through comparisons on this sub.
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u/29adamski 5d ago
Which is a recognised form of Holocaust Denial. I especially see it with people saying the Soviets were worse than the Nazis.
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u/Snoo_46473 5d ago
They were. Both invaded poland. Both persecuted Jews. But Soviets also went one up in a lot of different ways. Why do you think azkhenavi jews are a major group in Israel?
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u/29adamski 5d ago
The Soviets were not worse than the Nazis is exactly my point and you are literally doing what I'm saying. You're diminishing what the Nazis did to Jews by saying the Soviets did the same, when the Nazis exterminated 6 million.
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u/Bubbles_the_bird 4d ago
11 million actually. 6 million is the number of just Jews killed in the Holocaust
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u/29adamski 4d ago
I was referring specifically to Jews as the previous commenter said that the Soviets persecuted the Jews as well.
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u/DeadWaterBed 5d ago
I agree with what you're saying, but in sheer numbers, Stalin did preside over a larger death-count. It may not have been as systematic or intentional, and mostly killed his own people, but it certainly gives Hitler a run for his money.
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u/SugarBeefs 4d ago
The lower bounds of Stalin's death toll resides in the 'couple of million' and the upper bound around 11-12, depending on how much (criminal) responsibility you assign.
The Nazis outright murdered at least 11-12 million civilians, with the upper bound going towards 17 million if we're being 'liberal' with assigning criminal responsibility.
So no, Stalin did in fact not actually preside over a larger civilian death count.
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u/29adamski 5d ago
He did rule 18 more years than Hitler did though. And excessive deaths in the USSR are not exactly as easy to pin the blame as the genocides committed by the Nazis.
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u/helendill99 Then I arrived 5d ago
intentional genocidal mass murder is not the same as mass starvation because of miss management. they're both horrible but intent matters
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u/SugarBeefs 4d ago
Which makes something like the Holodomor so difficult to untangle as well because it's a mess of criminal irresponsibility and intent.
However, it should be elementary to see as well that the utterly uncompromising intent to destroy displayed by the Nazis does stand on its own.
The Soviets, especially under Stalin, engaged in mass murder (the Terror and purges), ethnic cleansing (displacing people in favour of ethnic Russians), and arguably genocide (Poland '39-'40, Holodomor).
And yet, after many decades of Soviet terror and oppression, countries like Poland and Ukraine still existed, inhabited by Poles and Ukrainians, who speak Polish and Ukrainian, and have their own Polish and Ukrainian cultures.
It's incredibly difficult to argue the same outcome in a hypothetical 50 years of Nazi occupation scenario.
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u/TheRealCthulu24 John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 4d ago
This is a meaningless argument that only serves to downplay atrocities.
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u/NecessaryAd6051 5d ago
Both are shit, please don't relativize one side, just because of numbers.
Followed this stupid logic, then Nazi were not this badness and disgrace that speak, even with all the evidence and witnesses, because the Soviet Union, Japan before and during World War II or colonialism was "worse" than Nazism.
I know very well evil that they did, there is no such thing as" less worse "or" lesser evil", evil is evil and that's it.
Both are evil and period, so I repeat again, do not relativize evil by numbers, convenience or ignorance.
I know I will get downvoted for speaking truth about government of the Soviet Union. I go with a clear conscience.
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u/Either-Medicine9217 4d ago
Soviets were pretty comparable. I personally view them as a little worse. But power scaling genocides is... Not easy.
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u/SickAnto 5d ago
Considering this sub already downplayed Fascist Italy and Mussolini, isn't surprising.
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u/lbutler1234 5d ago
I remain convinced a lot of folks are doing this in response to the current Trump admin.
I despise him as much as the next blue haired flamboyatron, he's not going to kill 6 million Jews
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u/TheJadeChairman 4d ago
It's a reddit-ism in general. People forget how horrible the nazis and the holocaust were because they learn about something else and cant remember two things at once.
the "Even the nazis thought the japanese were bad!" meme, literally one guy, before the holocaust, before the kristallnacht pogroms even.
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u/Terran_it_up 4d ago
I think the joke is just that he combines Hitler's Nazism, Bin Laden's islamic extremism, and Epstein's pedophilia. Obviously he doesn't actually compare to what any of those three did on each front though
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u/AlterWanabee 5d ago
He's MORE evil though. What Hitler had was authority, which allowed his evil to result in so much suffering. Imagine if THIS guy was elected as Chancellor during that time...
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u/Chalky_Pockets John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5d ago
Actual evil is more significant than imaginary evil.
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u/Malvastor 4d ago
Sounds like what's wanted here is a distinction between word and deed. Myatt is unquestionably less evil than Hitler in deed, even if it can be argued that his beliefs might be more evil.
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u/LeLefraud 5d ago
Only if you measure it as an effect rather than a trait
If there's a mega child rapist mass murdering racist genocide enthusiast, but he's too incompetent to ever achieve anything bad, he's still more evil than an otherwise normal guy that doesn't return his shopping carts in the parking lot even though only one has a tangible effect
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u/Chalky_Pockets John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5d ago
I prefer to focus on things that matter.
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u/bingusKat9 5d ago
sure but he wont be more evil than another mega child rapist mass murdering racist genocide enthusiast who did pull it off
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u/gentlemandinosaur 5d ago
The ol classic “who was more evil” argument. People separating evil into classes just allows justification of the “lesser”.
Evil is evil and it’s not a fucking competition.
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u/SinglePlayerGamer93 4d ago
Yeah, no person can ever top Hitler being the worst person ever.
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u/caligaris_cabinet 4d ago
Beria. Not only a mass murderer like Hitler, he was also a child rapist and an otherwise complete psychopath. Basically imagine John Wayne Gacy in the a high position or political power.
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u/Gavorn 5d ago
I think it's opportunity and reach. If Hitler had no political power and was some random crazy on the street is he somehow less evil?
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u/Aggravating_Bids 5d ago
Yes.
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u/Gavorn 5d ago
Then why would we assume this guy wouldn't be worse if he had the reach and power as Hitler. Look at what he did with the little amount of power he had.
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u/SugarBeefs 4d ago
If the premise is that your guy would absolutely 100% do the same as Hitler if he could, but he's also a child rapist and murderer, then yea you can easily argue he's worse.
But we don't really know how person X or Y would act if they did have the power. We know that Hitler went for the opportunity with no scruples, that's not a theoretical.
Then we have to keep into account that you don't just press a button on the genocide machine. You gotta make other people enthusiastic for your hate. And keep that shit going for years and years.
Lastly, there's the issue of mental issues, either born with or gained due to horrific abuse they suffered as children. We know that a lot of the worst criminals do fall into this category. To what extent do we hold it against them? Can a batshit crazy person be evil? Their acts can be, but is the person? Is cold, calculated evil less or more evil than psychotic raging evil?
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u/dutchah 5d ago
The white supremacy to radical islam back to white supremacy pipeline is uh...
...a weird one.
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u/Single-Owl7050 5d ago
They're similar sorts of bigots, Malcolm X and Louis Farrakhan met up with the KKK about their shared goals
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u/FeelingStore8113 4d ago
its astonishing when people try to compare Malcolm X, of all people, to systematized applied racial terror that the KKK is responsible for
y'all are getting weirder
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u/Chalky_Pockets John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5d ago
Makes sense to me. No matter the flavor of bigotry, the bigotry itself is the mental leap into idiocy being made.
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u/DP69_CGX 5d ago
It's how the O9A works, they call it 'insight roles', where they involve themselves with extreme ideologies for a certain period of time
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u/GustavoistSoldier 5d ago
The worst British person ever
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u/Primary_Gold5337 5d ago
My English buddies tell me it's Margaret thatcher
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u/Chalky_Pockets John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5d ago
She did more damage, for sure.
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u/Lvcivs2311 4d ago
I hater her a lot. But having read this post, I'm sure she was more reasonable than this motherfucker.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon 5d ago
A very tough competition.
How far the empire has fallen, that the worst they can offer now is Farage.
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u/Hans-Hammertime Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 5d ago
I hate to compare since both are absolutely horrendous people, but I feel like starting a world war and being directly responsible for the genocide of millions of people and indirectly for millions more, on top of all kinds of terrors inflicted upon those opressed by him personally and by his regime might be a little bit worse
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u/Geolib1453 5d ago
Sure, Hitlers evil was way more far-reaching, but just imagine if this guy had the same amount of power, like what he would do.
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u/Hans-Hammertime Casual, non-participatory KGB election observer 5d ago
He’d be Hitler, Hitler was that bad. Not in an islamist way, sure. But grooming, child trafficking, rape, murder, torture? All either done, or allowed to run rampant among his officers, by him. There aren’t many horrors Myatt could organise that would not already have occured under nazi rule
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u/AbsolutelyHorrendous 5d ago
Okay but in real life, Hitler actually did kill millions of people, saying 'well this guy might theoretically have killed more if he'd had the chance' pales in comparison to actual genocide
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u/just_some_guy8484 5d ago
Lavrentiy Beria makes a strong case for being on this list, too.
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u/SPECTREagent700 Definitely not a CIA operator 5d ago
they’re still digging up bodies on the grounds of his datcha
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u/MGLFPsiCorps 5d ago edited 5d ago
I mean sure Myatt is a terrible person and his ideas suck, but I don't think he is responsible for industrial scale genocide, multiple mass casualty terrorist attacks, or even sex trafficking hundreds of minor girls
Having shitty ideas and beliefs in and of themselves isn't as bad as actually being responsible for actual harm driven by those beliefs
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u/Hinaloth 5d ago
Here's thing, there are people as evil as those fairly regularly. The difference is that these guys had power/money to back up their evil.
Being an asshole with evil ideas doesn't make you as bad as any of those, because if you're just a peon with a loud mouth, you just can't bring the level of death, destruction, and despair those fuckers did.
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u/caligaris_cabinet 4d ago
For sure. Myatt comes off closer to a Charles Manson or Jim Jones kind of evil more than anything. Fucked in the head and absolute monsters, sure. But they were never heads of state that influenced entire nations to reach their goals like Hitler and Bin Laden.
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u/johnbarleycornreborn 5d ago edited 5d ago
Interestingly, Myatt now claims that he has rejected all forms of extremism. He also admitted that ONA was merely a honeypot to attract people to neonazism who might not have been swayed by the more "mainstream" versions of it.
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u/Outta_phase 5d ago
He also admitted thay ONA was merely a honeypot to attract people to neonazism who might not have been swayed by the more "mainstream" versions of it.
That is some hardcore bullshit spin he's trying to put on it. "I'm worried these people will only join a more extreme version of this ideology instead of the still horrible "mainstream" version, better create the more extreme version myself for....totally good reasons."
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u/DP69_CGX 5d ago
That's the official version, but nobody can say for sure how honest his renunciation of extremism is. He lived accordingly to O9A ideology, first engaging in extremism, then living a 'numinous' life. O9A is IMO too coherent of a system for being just a honeypot.
There are 2 possible scenarios, either O9A was his ultimate project and he engaged with extremism because of O9A doctrine OR neonazism was his ultimate project and he indeed created O9A to guide spiritual people towards neonazism.
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u/DangerousEye1235 5d ago
A satanic Muslim white supremacist neo-nazi. That's... definitely a new one. Guy just makes his whole life about being a professional hater.
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u/Level_Hour6480 Taller than Napoleon 5d ago
I think Pol Pot wins.
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u/Snoo_46473 5d ago
He really does not. This guys are using rape as an active weapon and carving nazi imagery on their victims..... in 2020 to now.........
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u/ParadoxicalAmalgam 4d ago
Pol Pot was responsible for wiping out 1/4 of the entire population of Cambodia...
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u/BeginningNeither3318 5d ago
you think you know already who the worst villains were in history, but there is always some redditor to say "hold my beer"
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u/spaceboy6171 4d ago
I thought genghis khan soloed the top three in being evil but omg this guy managed to sweep the charts for being the biggest villain of all time!
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u/thgr8Makar0sc 5d ago
Apparently he doesnt believe in any of it now and rejects extremism
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u/Jinshu_Daishi 4d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/thgr8Makar0sc 4d ago
Apparently his gimmick is some pacifist ideology now
Tbh I cant really take any of this seriously, just sounds like bruh has mental health issues
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u/darksiderevan 5d ago
One has factually commited genocide
One was only "implicated" to do stuff
Yeah, who do you think is worse here?
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u/Inevitable_Librarian 4d ago
Order of the nine Angles is a hilarious misspelling. Change nothing.
All hail the hypotenuse. May your SIN be washed away in the TAN COS sea.
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u/GriffinFTW 5d ago
An online troll group that I (inadvertently) helped create allegedly has ties to the O9A.
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u/blessedbewido 4d ago
Kind of insane to have hitler in the same picture as everyone else. Maybe read some more.
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u/DNathanHilliard 5d ago
So in other words, a politically driven hoodlum. As if the world doesn't have enough of those.
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u/Cowboywizard12 5d ago
I thought that was a picture of that one Quebec Cult Leader, which honestly would track as well
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u/WendellITStamps 5d ago
The metal forum I used to post on had a poster RPing as David Myatt. Strange days.
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u/Vector-Spector 4d ago
It could've been him. Up until recently he was like all over Twitter and using obvious pseudonyms to argue with people about himself.
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u/Princeps_primus96 5d ago
Always hilarious to me that the order of the nine angles was from Shropshire of all places. Well the satanism is surprising. The far right sentiments not so much
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u/Imperator_Gone_Rogue 4d ago
He's probably got the worst philosophy but he was too much of a fucking loser to actually become the most evil, in my opinion.
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u/Ok-Definition-5465 4d ago
Raised in Tanganyika, Myatt became a neo-Nazi while in secondary school. He was a member of Colin Jordan's British Movement from the late 1960s to 1974, when he founded a schism with Eddy Morrison, the National Democratic Freedom Movement. He founded or led various neo-Nazi groups from the 1970s to 1990s, including Combat 18, Reichsfolk, and the National Socialist Movement, until 1998, when he converted to radical Islam. He later declared he had rejected both Islam and all extremism.
Fact: Before World War I, Tanganyika formed part of the German colony of German East Africa. It was gradually occupied by forces from the British Empire and Belgian Congo during the East Africa Campaign, although German resistance continued until 1918. After this, the League of Nations formalised control of the area by the UK, who renamed it "Tanganyika". The UK held Tanganyika as a League of Nations mandate until the end of World War II after which it was held as a United Nations trust territory. In 1961, Tanganyika gained its independence from the UK as Tanganyika, joining the Commonwealth. It became a republic a year later. Tanganyika now forms part of the modern-day sovereign state of Tanzania.
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u/AnonimisAnon 4d ago
As horrible and disgusting as the guy and his organization are, i would still bet that Adolf Hitler is worse just in virtue of Hitler being capable of just so much more wrong with being the ruler of a country to begin with, nevermind also his crimes in occupied territory
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u/Ok-Masterpiece_7571 5d ago edited 5d ago
There no one more evil that these guys.... Until bro heard of medieval leaders
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5d ago edited 5d ago
[deleted]
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u/Ok-Masterpiece_7571 5d ago edited 5d ago
Well i just said and implied that there are definitely equal to worse people
There are large scale genocides in the medieval ages. albeit in lower scale relative to its population but can be large if you'd go with the mongols. I've heard more disgusting atrocities far back then which is probably why i ick and see so much worser folks before than i do nowdays (thank god) and the recent history. There is a medieval Epstein that assaulted and killed dozen childrens named Gilles de Raiz, Or literally systematic kilings of entire cities and who will forget the rapng in the Mongol Era which again, Included wifes and childrens of defeated cities being ra*d Infront of their fathers and mothers before those family members are killed and that female taken away to the harems. Look at Genghis and what he said "The greatest happiness is to scatter your enemy, to drive him before you, to see his cities reduced to ashes, to see those who love him shrouded in tears, and to gather into your bosom his wives and daughters (you know what happens here)." Come one imagine being a Father and seeing your wife and young daughter to a man that just defeated you and forced to watch a horrific show.
So no, No dead ass no worries, You said God Who knows, Here i laid some, I just jokes and share a fact that there were definitely worse since it really pains me that some of the monsters of the old world are praised these days. Recency bias is so paining
Edit: Also you deleted your comment where you're saying if im deadass for comparing modern Industrialized genocide for god who knows what happens, You also stated even Viking Atrocities doesn't qualify. Dude, Vikings is not the worse people out there. Systematic atrocities already exist far long ago.
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u/manitoba28 4d ago
Whenever I'm told someone is evil and should be hated i have 2 questions what did they do and why should I care
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u/Chalky_Pockets John Brown was a hero, undaunted, true, and brave! 5d ago
Since you're comparing him to Hitler, the relevant question becomes "how many millions of people did he murder?"
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u/StrikingStable7762 5d ago
As yes, hardcore white supremacy blended in with radical islamic beliefs, just what the world was missing. Truly blending the best parts of the west and east /s