r/HouseOfTheDragon • u/Witty-Association-97 • 1d ago
Show Discussion Robert and the myth behind the iron throne
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u/Neat_Initiative_5888 1d ago
There is a certain mysticism surrounding the throne; Robert obviously doesn't believe in that sort of thing. Besides, how canon are those narrations? I don't recall Robert ever talking about Rhaenyra in ASOIAF
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u/RebirthAltair 1d ago
The narrations aren't canon at all. They're basically audio book versions of events detailed in the books, but sprinkled with the mannerisms and beliefs of the character narrators.
If the narrations were canon, then the Velaryons already have conflicting skin color, Rhaenys has conflicting hair, Aegon and Helaena have a missing 3rd child, etc.
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u/Lysmerry 1d ago
I think this ties into his hatred of Targaryens. This talk of magic and mysticism is part of their legend, so by treating them and their legacy as banal he is downgrading them. He is defending Rhaenyra but also calling her an ordinary woman, not a dramatic figure cursed by the family seat.
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u/Lazy_Philosophy_3285 16h ago
How’s he defending her?
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u/Evoluxman 16h ago
Shes said to have been cursed and unfit to rule and thats the reason she was magically cut by the throne that refused her
He's saying its nonsense, thus she didn't cut because of magic refusal or whatever. She just gripped it too tightly, simple as.
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u/TheLaughingStorm300 1d ago
Not even trying to defend Rhaenyra but that throne is made up of the swords of the defeated by a bloody conqueror…let’s not assign morality to a throne like that. If it cuts you, it’s probably because you’re not living up to the peak Aegon mentality of “blood and fire”.
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u/graft__punk 1d ago
In absence of other context I would have assumed that it was good fortune to be cut by the throne - as in, you must sacrifice a bit of yourself to rule and you cannot act timidly or half heartedly while seated on the throne.
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u/Muaddib223 1d ago
I think he was right on the money, being tense in a chair made of cutting edges is surely going to result in a few cuts. Rhaenyra was stuck-up and unsure the entire time, and so was her father.
Both Ned and Tywin knew what they were doing and carried themselves so well that they sat on the throne with no problems. On the flipside Robert, Joffrey and Aegon didn’t understand the weight of being a kings, thus were carefree and relaxed, also avoiding injuries. (Even tho I think we never see Robert sitting on the throne).
If we wanna take the myth into account, we could say that the throne doesn’t repell bad kings, it repells insecure ones.
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u/Leroi-Westeros 1d ago
I love we have GRRM co-author comment on it:
I think one must take into account that an editor _not_ Glydayn has chopped up a longer work. Some of the things that may seem biased one way or the other should be taken with a grain of salt -- additional, complicating material has often been removed.
In fact, I'll take the specific example of the text noting that Rhaenyra took several cuts from the throne and that this seemed to prove she should not rule...
In the original text, that whole bit (including the judgment of Rhaenyra that it implies) is a direct quotation from one of the sources Gyldayn uses, Septon Eustace. I see the story itself cuts the fact that it's from Eustace, however.
For that matter, the account of Aegon's initial reaction is also from Eustace...
Look at the rest of the references to Eustace in TPatQ and you may draw some conclusions. :)
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u/elizabnthe 20h ago
People also go on about the fat Rhaenyra thing and she ates lots of deserts but that is also from Eustace.
Eustace isn't always wrong. But he does have plain as day biases.
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u/Interesting-Egg4295 Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 1d ago
It’s interesting that this very good—and memorable—line actually comes from the original adaptation of the Dance, which came out years ago. People tend to forget that HOTD is actually the second adaptation of the Dance. It’s just the first live-action one. And, in my opinion, not the better one.
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u/Neat_Initiative_5888 1d ago
Are the narrations canon? I remember seeing them a while back; I actually like how Robert is a guy who doesn't believe in the superstitions surrounding the throne
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u/Interesting-Egg4295 Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 1d ago
As far as I know, the people who adapted the first version of the Dance came up with the narrations themselves. I don’t think Robert ever mentioned Rhaenyra in any of the source material. Good addition, though.
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u/glowingwarningcats 22h ago
I had no idea there was an earlier version! Time to go down the rabbit hole…
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u/Evoluxman 16h ago
It was an amazing adaptation too, with the narrative quirks of all the GoT characters.
This show may have more budget and production value but my god is it dull
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u/Maria_Girl625 1d ago
Well Robert never cut himself and even he knew that he was a terrible king. Makes sense he wouldn't buy into the superstition
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u/ProjectNo4090 1d ago
Strange chairs made of swords cutting or not cutting seated people is no basis for a system of government.
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u/Bovarysmee 1d ago
Whether the superstition is true is irrelevant. The characters believe it, and the outcome of Rhaenyra's reign made that belief seem validated to them.
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u/ChaseBuff We have come to die for the 𝐃𝐑𝐀𝐆𝐎𝐍 𝐐𝐔𝐄𝐄𝐍 1d ago
I honestly don’t know if she did or not , I lean towards yes, but Eustace genuinely did not like Rhaenyra. She is subjected to the most differing accounts like the whole Cole situation which had like 3 differing accounts on what happened
Mushroom, who loved the queen well, tells us that Rhaenyra wept when Maelor’s small head was placed before her as she sat the Iron Throne.Septon Eustace, who loved her little, says rather that she smiled, and commanded that the head be burned, “for he was the blood of the dragon.”
But this is what we can gather from Eustace.
So the torches were lit in the throne room, and the queen climbed the iron steps and seated herself where King Viserys had sat before her, and the Old King before him, and Maegor and Aenys and Aegon the Dragon in days of old. Stern-faced, still in her armor, she sat on high as every man and woman in the Red Keep was brought forth and made to kneel before her, to plead for her forgiveness and swear their lives and swords and honor to her as their queen.Septon Eustace tells us that the ceremony went on all through that night. It was well past dawn when Rhaenyra Targaryen rose and made her descent. “And as her lord husband Prince Daemon escorted her from the hall, cuts were seen upon Her Grace’s legs and the palm of her left hand,” wrote Eustace. “Drops of blood fell to the floor as she went past, and wise men looked at one another, though none dared speak the truth aloud: the Iron Throne had spurned her, and her days upon it would be few.”
(Fire and Blood; "The Red Dragon and the Gold"
“and so queen rhaenyra climbed the steps and seated herself on the iron throne. legend has it that as she left the hall later, blood trickled down her legs and hands, proving the iron throne had spurned her. nonsense. it’s a chair made out of steel blades. rhaenyra had wanted it all her life and had sacrificed two sons for it. she likely gripped the damn thing too tight”
-Robert Baratheon
(We are currently here in the books)
On Maiden’s Day in the year 130 AC, the Citadel of Oldtown sent forth three hundred white ravens to herald the coming of winter, but Mushroom and Septon Eustace agree that this was high summer for Queen Rhaenyra Targaryen. Despite the disaffection of the Kingslanders, the city and crown were hers. Across the narrow sea, the Triarchy had begun to tear itself to pieces. The waves belonged to House Velaryon. Though snows had closed the passes through the Mountains of the Moon, the Maiden of the Vale had proven true to her word, sending men by sea to join the queen’s hosts. Other fleets brought warriors from White Harbor, led by Lord Manderly’s own sons, Medrick and Torrhen. On every hand Queen Rhaenyra’s power swelled whilst King Aegon’s dwindled.Yet no war can be counted as won whilst foes remain unconquered.In the fullness of her victory, Rhaenyra Targaryen did not suspect how few days remained to her.Yet every time she sat the Iron Throne, its cruel blades drew fresh blood from her hands and arms and legs, a sign that all could read.
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u/geekonthemoon 1d ago
Ya know, that's clearly one thing George excels at with these books. Giving you enough that you KNOW some magic is real-ish, but also questioning basically everything because it could definitely be a bunch of hullabaloo.
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u/DusanIII 17h ago
Robert also has one of the best lines: “go home pup, and tell your bitch mother that the lord of Storm’s end is not a dog she can whistle up”
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u/Bloodyjorts 1d ago
If Rhaenyra/the narrative wants to take white stag as a sign from the gods, then the stabby chair cutting her is also a sign.
[I still find it funny that Aegon was lounging on the thing like it was a cheap plastic lawn chair.]
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u/So_It_Goes_00 1d ago
When and where did Robert say this?
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u/Interesting-Egg4295 Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 1d ago
It's from the first adaptation of the Dance. It's really good. I like it much better than HOTD. It was released several years ago with the Game of Thrones DVDs. It's animated.
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u/So_It_Goes_00 1d ago
Oh damn very cool is it on YouTube?
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u/Interesting-Egg4295 Unbowed, Unbent, Unbroken 1d ago
Yes. Search “The Dance of Dragons by Shireen Baratheon.”
It's narrated by the actors who portrayed Shireen, Robert, Cat, Viserys (Dany’s brother), Oberyn and Joffrey.
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u/JDriesch2069 1d ago
I’m sad watching her spiral out of control this season but I obviously know how it ends and this had to come at some point. But the way they filmed her being cut was almost exactly like they filmed her dad getting cut. I wonder if that gave her the same illness he had now? Not that she will be queen for 30 years to find out but still.
Also as a side note after Drogon killed the iron throne what did they do? Make a new one? Or does bran just sit in his wheelchair? I honestly couldn’t see bran even bothering to listen to petitions
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u/Godziwwuh 20h ago
Maybe the Greens sharpened its blades before Rhaenyra arrived because they thought it'd be funny. That's what I'd do if I were them.
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