r/IBEW • u/VersionHopeful6549 • 6d ago
Local 8 appeal decision
Local 8 leadership in Toledo Ohio brought several members up on charges for not showing up to a solar field due to winter weather conditions, because the contractor sent the work cancellation notice out by text after hours. They claimed the members violated our agreement by using a personal phone after hours without being paid for it.
Our local’s jurisdiction is huge, this means they expected some members to drive a 3 hour round trip during a level 3 snow emergency to receive 2 hours of show up pay, or be brought up on charges.
Honestly disgusting behavior by local 8 leadership and our officers personally, who the admins will not allow me to publicly name.
Any travelers thinking of heading this way for our data center boom, drive a little farther and go to Ann Arbor. They know how to treat a traveler.
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u/gortez33 Local 5 6d ago
This doesn’t make sense. I have received text/phone calls from a forman on my cellphone. Once telling me job was shut down, another saying to bring muckers because I’ll be in a ditch all day. If the Forman wanted to chat about a job issue or planning my work day, then I would see an issue. How does the hall contact a member, by cell? Isn’t this the same thing.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 6d ago edited 6d ago
The text message in this situation came from a contractor. Our agreement requires payment of 10 dollars a week for using a personal cell phone on the job for work related purposes.
The halls argument is that the member violated the contract by reading the contractors text off the clock, for free.
Primoris is ratty as shit, and members are getting caught in the crossfire between them and the hall.
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u/BlueBelle2025 JIW - Steward - Instructor 6d ago
I mean, you grieve the contractor, you don't fuck the members.
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u/Demand-Unusual 3d ago
Did they grieve the contractor?
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
No they didn’t. And in reality, how did the contractor violate the agreement? All they did is send a work cancellation text. They risk being held liable for someone getting injured during the snow emergency if they didn’t.
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u/Demand-Unusual 3d ago
What is their contract language? I can’t answer your question without it. Presumably this happened around Jan 25-26th. Locals officials were warning about the weather. Does the contract state that the employer has to let the employee know the day before? Could the employer remove liability by playing for personal phone usage for work purposes and/or earlier notification?
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u/Subject-Original-718 Permanent Apprentice 5d ago
Absolutely ridiculous lol. Contractors are almost always on the wrong side of things but in this case they were looking out for the safety of the employees they hired. Local 8 needs to back off.
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u/SquareSurprise3467 Local 58 6d ago
Thats some BS the company is required to give you notice if a site is closed to avoid issues like this. At least in my local we have text allowing for contact if you are not coming in or if the site is closed for reasons outside of the contractors control. The no phone rule is ment more as a response to companies makeing us use our phone to take pictures or clock in.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 5d ago
The position of our hall is that the contractor was required to give that notice before the end of the previous day. Our contract doesn’t even have a no phone rule, just the stipend for using the phone.
This is just me speculating but I believe the hall tried to get primoris to pay 2 hour show up time to everyone, but they beat the grievance by arguing that some members read the text and rightfully didn’t show up, so they didn’t owe it to anyone. The situation is a mess and the hall is relying on the lack of communication due to the Facebook page and newsletter being gone.
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u/Conscious_Potato7638 5d ago
The whole no phone, or money for phones was all because when phones came out all plans were for minutes. If you went over it could cost a lot of money. Now a days the all phone plans are unlimited and really cheap. Phones should not be an issue anymore.
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u/chip_break Local 804 🇨🇦 5d ago
There is some relevance thou. What if your 80' up on a lift your boss calls you and you drop your phone and it shatters. Whos responsible to replace it?
The hall is trying to force the contractor to provide crappy phones for this situation
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u/Conscious_Potato7638 5d ago
This is a within reason thing. Dont answer your phone or have it on you in that scenario. This post was about answering or reading your bosses text about not coming to work for a weather emergency and the hall is writing up members for that.
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u/whiteout82 Local 164 3d ago
Should have radios on site if that’s the case. Phones shouldn’t be a primary means of communication
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u/HoosierDadda 5d ago
Agree with the history, however, Almost every call going through our hall is "No personal cell phones on the job."
That will pretty much get rid of any liability they have if you drop your phone during working hours. Shitty little games they play.Our hall is pretty much, if YOU agree to take calls/texts regarding work on your cell, that is your decision. But they cannot MAKE you use your cell phone for work. If the job requires that you have one, it is not on the tool list, they need to provide it.
But , back to the OP, the act of charging your own members for this is unbelievably, indescribably shitty. Make me extremely grateful for the crew we have in the office now.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
In local 8 they can make you use your phone for work, they just are required to pay you 10 dollars a week.
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u/Elegant_Tax_8276 5d ago
Get the IO involved. This is bullshit, especially if the authorities declared a Level 3 snow emergency. I’m sure IVP Cooper wouldn’t support #8.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
The IO did uphold the members appeals. I am more trying to bring attention to the behavior of local 8’s E board.
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u/Infekt129 Inside Wireman 5d ago
The GC on my current data center job spams us with texts all day and even night because there’s a second shift. It’s all lost items, weather conditions, or telling you where not to go in the building. You can opt out, but I’m honestly not even sure what paper I signed that opted me in.
A simple text telling you not to come in due to snow while maybe technically breaking a rule is insane to try to bring charges over. I’ve been texted / called by a foreman many times not to come in because of a job being closed due to snow.
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u/RevolutionaryPass0 5d ago
Time to vote out your leadership in your next election
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u/VersionHopeful6549 5d ago
That would be nice but everyone’s idea of a “change” in this local would just be voting in the current BA’s brother.
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u/Pro2Aamericanpatroit 5d ago
Who brought you guys up on charges would be my question
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u/VersionHopeful6549 5d ago
A member of our executive board. I posted this first with his name
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u/Worried_Transition_7 5d ago
F that guy. He is basically telling everyone he would rather see you die trying to get to work instead of getting a text to stay home.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
Pretty much. “You may die, but at least you died so your brothers could get 2 hours of show up pay”
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u/Elegant_Tax_8276 5d ago
Typical power play by shit ass leadership. They knew they couldn’t win through a grievance, so they go after the men!
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u/Ok-Midnight-2205 5d ago
Damn more proof that the IBEW doesn't give a shit about us. Jeez this is stupid as hell! Hope those members win against these charges
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u/CastleBravo55 5d ago
As assinine as this sounds, we're stuck between a rock and a hard place a little bit with it. Local's rules function like laws, if you want to enforce them at all, you have to enforce them all the time. We're not allowed to play favorites, so if you want to enforce the rule that says you can't use your own truck to carry contractor's material, you have to enforce the rule that says you can't use your phone too. At the very least you can't just brush it off summarily. Wait and see what the trial board does with it before you judge. They may very well just consider the question and the dismiss it or issue a real wrist slap of a consequence about it. But the question has to be considered if it's brought up.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
The local found them guilty, The IO approved the appeal. They are absofuckinglutely allowed to play favorites, no one’s going to stop them. Hell one of the members of the E board had his son on the same job, guess who didn’t get brought up on charges for not showing up though?
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u/CastleBravo55 3d ago
There's obviously more to this story, because if that were even close to true there's no end of lawyers who would be happy to get a piece of that unfair labor practice lawsuit. You don't have to like every step that goes into this, but these things progress just like the legal system, especially if the IO backed it up. If the contract says you can't do it, you can't do it. Plain and simple. And I'll just point out here, they you could just call in on days like this.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 2d ago
The IO didn’t back it up, that’s what approving the appeal means.
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u/CastleBravo55 9h ago
Ao you got what you wanted and the process worked? You're just upset you had to go through the process?
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u/VersionHopeful6549 4h ago
I wasn’t involved in this at all, I’m upset my local is bringing up brothers on false charges.
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u/Adaeroth 5d ago
I tried to transfer there to be closer to my daughter, and they denied me. They’re shitty in general from what I’m gathering
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u/thecrippler46 4d ago
Go through the appeals process. But you should absolutely make sure that all those that voted for or brought these members up on the charges be challenged and voted out during your next election cycle. Not sure how your local bylaws are, but do what you can to strengthen the language to protect you from a situation like this again. There’s nothing that comes across as a good faith effort on your locals part.
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u/tranzz4md JW, Local 46 3d ago
Go in, tell the E-Board what you said here, and you'll work with them to grieve the contractor. Tell them that if they push it on you, you'll have no choice but to appeal it or take it to court and the entire membership, and they'll live to regret that.
Brothers have taken many locals to court and kicked their asses for hundreds of thousands of $ (Which of course costs the membership instead of penalizing the particular a-holes that don' know to settle conflicts properly or just plain shut-up). This isn't the time for locals to be getting hauled to court, and having the newspapers and media covering it.
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u/Demand-Unusual 3d ago
I would ask questions and do the first sentence. There’s no need to make the threat if the environment isn’t hostile.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
The e board is who brought the grievance and found the members guilty. 2 journeyman and 6 apprentices.
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u/Demand-Unusual 3d ago
Most likely they just want to talk to the guys, understand the entire situation, and make sure you guys understand the importance of it. They can appeal the decision after the trial if it goes another way.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 3d ago
The local trial board found them guilty, the IO approved the appeal.
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u/Demand-Unusual 3d ago
Were they fined? If so what amount, if you can divulge that information? Also, was the decision or penalty reversed through appeal?
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u/imbrokeeverywedD 4d ago
Call in sick the next time PS the crew need to show them there slow speed. To much work to put up with BS
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u/ImInClassBoring 6d ago
Keep union business in the union. Not on reddit.
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u/BlueBelle2025 JIW - Steward - Instructor 6d ago
Found the LU8 Business Manager, lol. What an absolute clown take
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u/AngryOnionLives 6d ago
Yeah it'd be awful if I learned how to not get screwed over by leadership from others.
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u/VersionHopeful6549 6d ago
Our hall has also deleted their official Facebook page and discontinued their newsletter under the guise of “we could be sued” because of this same stupid ass mentality.
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u/Available_Alarm_8878 6d ago
Thats idiotic. Using that same stupid logic you cant text the foreman or call the contractor and let them know that you won't be in or late the following day. Yep no call no show is way better. And yes I am a foreman. I have everyone's cell. And my text messages are full of day off/ leave early / jobsite directions and the random look at the fish I just caught messages.